Is it really normal for dv not to be able to handle reds?

R

Ralph nixon

Well-known member
I find that anything that I shoot with my 100b that is red, say a tomato, or a flower, has a type of pixelation to it or "stair-stepping". Is this really normal for digital video? I'm a novice and use to film. Are all dv cameras like this? Is there anything I can do to reduce this effect in camera? Are their ways to reduce this effect in FCP without affecting the resolution of the whole picture?

Just out of curiousity is this a problem in other formats say dvpro or hdv?
 
yep, its normal, blues also, but reds are notorious.

I've never tried to fix them in FCP, but you might be able to work on it a little bit. Don't know about dvcpro or hdv, but I'm going to assume that higher rez less compression will help it a little, but probably not completely
 
Yes, it's normal. All Dv cameras are like this, aside from DVD camcorders, and also HDV. DVCPro (50 or HD) has this problem incredibly less pronouciated, but also has it to some degree. You'd have to shoot 4:4:4, (and that means the Sony Cinealta) not to have it.

In theory, you can get this better by blurring your red channel. But I'm not sure if that is so easy to do in FCP as it is in Photoshop. BUT FCP has a tool in the key effects call I think is Color Smoother 4:2:2. That will enhance it a little bit. The bad news is that if you're returning to DV tape (when you master your final copy) it's going to show up again, no matter how you treat it. It's from the DV compression itself.
 
In vegas, it's really easy to remove the blocked reds with horizontal chroma blur, loooks perfectly natural, although a little softer than usual. What you could do to prevent this red/blue-blocking, is adjusting the in-camera settings.
 
in singapore, some call this bleeding for the red.
haha, but honestly i realised that it can be edited by using fcp

Mini Man,
for the camera setting , which setting are u refering to?
 
White balance and chroma settings, I think. I don't have my DVX here right now, so I can't remember all of them.
 
I find that if you shoot a flat image, and then adjust color information in post, the reds come out much better.
 
cheezweezl said:
it's also much worse on the computer than it is on a tv. tv seems to smooth it out pretty well.
Click to expand...


yea i noticed that too, it kinda disappears on TV.

But you can turn down your chroma levels. that will help.
 
In still photography the reds really look great. I shoot Jeeps for Chrysler and I scream for Red or Yellow Jeeps. In digital video......it's just best to try and avoid the reds but it's true that they don't look quite as bad on TV.
 
turn the chroma level down in camera and keep the master ped near 0 to flatten the image then bring the colors back up in post using curves in after effects. I dont know what FCP calls curves, could be called gamma i think.
 
I use Virtual Dub's filter called chroma smoother with color space 4:1:0 switched. Takes time to reconvert but results are amazing.
I wonder why DVX doesn't have this (hardware) filter already built in camera. Pretty 'amateurish' look with such reds on footage.
 
This is a factor of the miniDV format, it has nothing to do with the camera. You will find it on any 4:1:1 miniDV cam, from the consumer to professional. The only difference is the DVX saturates reds a bit more than some other cameras, making it more apparant.

Shooting with color turned down won't make a difference. The red channel still only has 1/4 the resolution, 180x480, so it will be blocky.

You can use a chroma smoother/deartifacter, but it's only worth it if you are going out to DVD (it has a slightly different color space 4:2:0). If you go back to miniDV the color will get blocky again.
 
My reds dont get blocky after turning the chroma down at all. Even red lights stay smooth. I had a bright red parasol in the sun on my zombie fest entry and didnt have a problem.

Zombie_Beach_03%20raw.jpg

Zombie_Beach_03.jpg
 
Joshua Provost said:
This is a factor of the miniDV format, it has nothing to do with the camera. You will find it on any 4:1:1 miniDV cam, from the consumer to professional. The only difference is the DVX saturates reds a bit more than some other cameras, making it more apparant.

Shooting with color turned down won't make a difference. The red channel still only has 1/4 the resolution, 180x480, so it will be blocky.

You can use a chroma smoother/deartifacter, but it's only worth it if you are going out to DVD (it has a slightly different color space 4:2:0). If you go back to miniDV the color will get blocky again.
Click to expand...

turning down the color does help because it reduces teh chances of a red "blowout". the camera can resolve red, so long as it does not over load the codec. Kinda like in luminance, to bright, blows white.

Aram gets spectacualr results with that technique as you can tell.
 
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