John J. Heppe
Active member
"Smoking is Prohibited"
http://www.stickypod.com/videos/data/554/SIP_-_480_Wide_.mov
http://www.stickypod.com/videos/data/554/SIP_-_480_Wide_.mov
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HVX+M35=4 min. Martial Arts Short
- Thread starter John J. Heppe
- Start date
escozooz
Well-known member
I had fun watching it.
The choreograhy was pretty amazing for a short. Definitely some talented stunt guys. The intro is very cool, with the tree shots.
- I understand that you have to cut a lot for the time requirement but I get pretty confused about who is who, in the beginning.
- Many of the shots were blown out. I realize it was video so there is only so much you can do but even some of the skin tones were over exposed. Having a grad/ND filter would have helped keep that under control, at least on the wide shots.
- Nice camera work during the fight, nice change ups. The SFX for the swords is a little grinding after a while, do you have any other sounds you can swap in?
- I liked the CC/FX overall but sometimes the shots didn't match in color. Have you tried making a cut where you saturate/contrast the colors instead of desaturate?
Your DOF adapter seems pretty good, especially for a home made one. Looks good.
:kali: :crybaby:
The choreograhy was pretty amazing for a short. Definitely some talented stunt guys. The intro is very cool, with the tree shots.
- I understand that you have to cut a lot for the time requirement but I get pretty confused about who is who, in the beginning.
- Many of the shots were blown out. I realize it was video so there is only so much you can do but even some of the skin tones were over exposed. Having a grad/ND filter would have helped keep that under control, at least on the wide shots.
- Nice camera work during the fight, nice change ups. The SFX for the swords is a little grinding after a while, do you have any other sounds you can swap in?
- I liked the CC/FX overall but sometimes the shots didn't match in color. Have you tried making a cut where you saturate/contrast the colors instead of desaturate?
Your DOF adapter seems pretty good, especially for a home made one. Looks good.
:kali: :crybaby:
andy_starbuck
Well-known member
#1) I like it!
Ideas:
The titles are hard to read, especially the "Smoking is Prohibited". Either stagger their position or change the color or both. Its easy to read it as "Speaking" instead of "Smoking".
The beginning looked a lot like Kurosawa. (Congratulations!) Consider going all the way by jittering the titles (every old martial arts film I've seen, the titles jump around a bit), and apply some scratches if you have a way to do this. I think Magic Bullet and some other packages have a plugin for "old time film". I wouldn't use it much past the opening titles and first appearance of the actor, because it gets distracting. Its often applied too heavily and for much too long. But it might be lend a nice hint of age.
I wanted to see the martial arts work broken up with close-up reaction shots. I think that would humanize the fight, making it easier to care about the action. Also, it would help the viewer's to distinguish the actors during the fight.
I would have tried bringing the color saturation up for the fight scene. That's just style and preference. But I tend to think that its too easy for the viewer to get disconnected and confused by martial arts action. So I would use anything I could to keep it fresh.
Questions:
You were really gutsy jumping into the HVX, the HVX+M35, and a DVX/HVX shoot like that. The HVX is sort of the Swiss Army Knife of video cameras.
I'm curious what lessons you learned from using the DVX and HVX together. (I'm considering currently whether to do that.)
Did you use Variable Frame Rate on the HVX?
Did you try any coloring in-camera? (ie Chroma Level, Chroma Phase)
Nice work!
Ideas:
The titles are hard to read, especially the "Smoking is Prohibited". Either stagger their position or change the color or both. Its easy to read it as "Speaking" instead of "Smoking".
The beginning looked a lot like Kurosawa. (Congratulations!) Consider going all the way by jittering the titles (every old martial arts film I've seen, the titles jump around a bit), and apply some scratches if you have a way to do this. I think Magic Bullet and some other packages have a plugin for "old time film". I wouldn't use it much past the opening titles and first appearance of the actor, because it gets distracting. Its often applied too heavily and for much too long. But it might be lend a nice hint of age.
I wanted to see the martial arts work broken up with close-up reaction shots. I think that would humanize the fight, making it easier to care about the action. Also, it would help the viewer's to distinguish the actors during the fight.
I would have tried bringing the color saturation up for the fight scene. That's just style and preference. But I tend to think that its too easy for the viewer to get disconnected and confused by martial arts action. So I would use anything I could to keep it fresh.
Questions:
You were really gutsy jumping into the HVX, the HVX+M35, and a DVX/HVX shoot like that. The HVX is sort of the Swiss Army Knife of video cameras.
I'm curious what lessons you learned from using the DVX and HVX together. (I'm considering currently whether to do that.)
Did you use Variable Frame Rate on the HVX?
Did you try any coloring in-camera? (ie Chroma Level, Chroma Phase)
Nice work!
bluetuned
Active member
That was solid. A few things...
I'd also comment that it gets a little confusing at the beginning. It felt like the visual aspect of the story was progressing faster than the audio was.
I do feel like you overdid the color correcting. The images looked so washed out, and the vignetting was so apparent that it got distracting from the story. I like the idea, but consider toning it down.
Lastly, was the music composed for this? I'm not familiar with it, and if it was then that's awesome, because it's very good. But it doesn't quite flow. The tempo stays fairly consistent throughout the fight, and it would help if there were musical cues to amplify the areas where the fight gets intense in contrast to moments where there is a pause.
I'd also comment that it gets a little confusing at the beginning. It felt like the visual aspect of the story was progressing faster than the audio was.
I do feel like you overdid the color correcting. The images looked so washed out, and the vignetting was so apparent that it got distracting from the story. I like the idea, but consider toning it down.
Lastly, was the music composed for this? I'm not familiar with it, and if it was then that's awesome, because it's very good. But it doesn't quite flow. The tempo stays fairly consistent throughout the fight, and it would help if there were musical cues to amplify the areas where the fight gets intense in contrast to moments where there is a pause.
flydef
Member
I'm also wondering if that amount of desaturation / overexposure is really necessary.
In one of the photographs you show and mention a great sfx leg, but don't show it too much in the film. I think the leg cutting part could be a little more dramatic. Show a close shot of it fliping and landing on the ground, then of him picking it up off the ground.
Yeah, the fight scene needs to be cut with more close up reaction shots, but that's a little difficult with one camera. But you could have shot some of the fight scene in-between that grove of trees.
The vignetting doesn't bother me at all.
The martial arts were nicely choreographed.
Your characters need introductions, i.e. policeninja closeup reaction shot of him surveying the great wall, and a medium-far shot of him on a mountaintop maybe. You could also have a medium shot of him running through the bamboo.
One of the characters (i.e. policeninja) needs to be stronger, the story clearly about him.. Is this about the Policeninja or the other guys ironic walk in the woods?
At the end you would think he would be more upset with the guy for not telling him that "Smoking is Prohibited". The policeninja could have verbally warned him and the other character disregards the warning, or doesn't take it seriously. The "surrender all your goods" part distracts from the smoking is prohibited part.
The mentality of the dialog is definitely foreign and a little difficult to follow because you never directly show them speaking.
With the costumes so similar it is also hard to tell from what direction you are looking at the action from cut to cut.
At first watch I thought the last shot was a flashback. Him tying off the leg could be longer, and you could frame the last shot wide to feature the stumps in the foreground, and intercut that with the closeups of him looking at the cigarette.
A single slow paced piece of music for the entire piece is not the best choice. If you are going for the ethnic foreign look, then why not music that indicates that. Also the tempo of the music should complement the pace of the scene.
The title "Smoking is Prohibited" might lend a foreign feel, but why not the less verbose "No Smoking".
During the fight scene instead of Dj. Shadow or Ninjatune or whoever, something a little faster.
Maybe some Chinese techno? ..ehhe
In one of the photographs you show and mention a great sfx leg, but don't show it too much in the film. I think the leg cutting part could be a little more dramatic. Show a close shot of it fliping and landing on the ground, then of him picking it up off the ground.
Yeah, the fight scene needs to be cut with more close up reaction shots, but that's a little difficult with one camera. But you could have shot some of the fight scene in-between that grove of trees.
The vignetting doesn't bother me at all.
The martial arts were nicely choreographed.
Your characters need introductions, i.e. policeninja closeup reaction shot of him surveying the great wall, and a medium-far shot of him on a mountaintop maybe. You could also have a medium shot of him running through the bamboo.
One of the characters (i.e. policeninja) needs to be stronger, the story clearly about him.. Is this about the Policeninja or the other guys ironic walk in the woods?
At the end you would think he would be more upset with the guy for not telling him that "Smoking is Prohibited". The policeninja could have verbally warned him and the other character disregards the warning, or doesn't take it seriously. The "surrender all your goods" part distracts from the smoking is prohibited part.
The mentality of the dialog is definitely foreign and a little difficult to follow because you never directly show them speaking.
With the costumes so similar it is also hard to tell from what direction you are looking at the action from cut to cut.
At first watch I thought the last shot was a flashback. Him tying off the leg could be longer, and you could frame the last shot wide to feature the stumps in the foreground, and intercut that with the closeups of him looking at the cigarette.
A single slow paced piece of music for the entire piece is not the best choice. If you are going for the ethnic foreign look, then why not music that indicates that. Also the tempo of the music should complement the pace of the scene.
The title "Smoking is Prohibited" might lend a foreign feel, but why not the less verbose "No Smoking".
During the fight scene instead of Dj. Shadow or Ninjatune or whoever, something a little faster.
Maybe some Chinese techno? ..ehhe
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darwinandpaine
Well-known member
Very cool! Very Kurosawa! At the beginning, I thought I was watching "Rashomon." I like the look too --- very evocotive. I would have liked the music to get much more intense during the fight scene with some stabs when the swords clash, etc... Perhaps this is too much to ask --- particularly if you don't have a composer scoring the thing. Great job!
I liked it alot!! Very cool sound track. Good fight sequence. The old 70's type of Kung-Fu sound effects on the fighting seems like it might have been a nice touch seeing as you had that older Kung-Fu movie look and style. i have watched your clip a few times and enjoy it every time. I'd give it an "A" awsome job!
http://www.vtrecordingstudio.com
http://www.vtrecordingstudio.com
taubkin
Veteran
I loved the way it looked, and good job on the choreography.
I do agree that other than all the style, the piece has some editing/shot list problem.
I didn't hear many sound FX, but that might just be the internet. Still, I think the sound could be richer. More ambient, more effects. The music is too high on the mix I heard on the computer. If it sounds fine in the screening room, disregard.
Some reaction shot would be great, as would be some variations in the fight's rythm. Important moments of the fight should stand out. The policeman loosing his blade, and the dealers leg being cut off. Besides, just like you did nicely in the beggining, cool fights are always about preparation (Check ou Kill Bill), so adding breaks, is a good way to add more preparation shots (guys standing in attack poses, faceoffs, guys getting more and more angry). The way the fight happens, it kind of gets boring.
The cooler strikes should also be highlighted. You can do that by cutting. For instance. A guy jumps and do a beatufil flying kick. Get that camera down in the floor and make the guy fly over it. I missed how some great strikes were seen only in more open shots. Again, reaction, reaction, reaction. After the policeman takes the guy down, throwing him in the ground with his legs around his neck (Cool!), we need a closeup or medium shot of the guy in the floor feeling the strike.
You know, some pointers...
But honestly, it looks too cool! Stylish! I loved it!
I do agree that other than all the style, the piece has some editing/shot list problem.
I didn't hear many sound FX, but that might just be the internet. Still, I think the sound could be richer. More ambient, more effects. The music is too high on the mix I heard on the computer. If it sounds fine in the screening room, disregard.
Some reaction shot would be great, as would be some variations in the fight's rythm. Important moments of the fight should stand out. The policeman loosing his blade, and the dealers leg being cut off. Besides, just like you did nicely in the beggining, cool fights are always about preparation (Check ou Kill Bill), so adding breaks, is a good way to add more preparation shots (guys standing in attack poses, faceoffs, guys getting more and more angry). The way the fight happens, it kind of gets boring.
The cooler strikes should also be highlighted. You can do that by cutting. For instance. A guy jumps and do a beatufil flying kick. Get that camera down in the floor and make the guy fly over it. I missed how some great strikes were seen only in more open shots. Again, reaction, reaction, reaction. After the policeman takes the guy down, throwing him in the ground with his legs around his neck (Cool!), we need a closeup or medium shot of the guy in the floor feeling the strike.
You know, some pointers...
But honestly, it looks too cool! Stylish! I loved it!
First impressions:
-The opening and closing titles were impossible to read. I think the English should go below the Chinese.
-Subtitles were very difficult to read. Making them whiter would help.
-I like the blown out look in videos but this one looked too blown/washed out.
-The footage in different shots did not match up color-wise.
-I didn't understand what was happening at all. The POV of the story was muddled and it was very confusing to follow.
-I liked the fight choreography but I couldn't tell who was who since the guys are wearing the exact same thing, and also look very similar physically.
-The very long shots in the fight scene really sucked the life out of the fight. I would have liked to have been closer.
Don't get me wrong, though. I thought the video looked cool. I just can't say that I was entertained by it.
-The opening and closing titles were impossible to read. I think the English should go below the Chinese.
-Subtitles were very difficult to read. Making them whiter would help.
-I like the blown out look in videos but this one looked too blown/washed out.
-The footage in different shots did not match up color-wise.
-I didn't understand what was happening at all. The POV of the story was muddled and it was very confusing to follow.
-I liked the fight choreography but I couldn't tell who was who since the guys are wearing the exact same thing, and also look very similar physically.
-The very long shots in the fight scene really sucked the life out of the fight. I would have liked to have been closer.
Don't get me wrong, though. I thought the video looked cool. I just can't say that I was entertained by it.
I really enjoyed this John. Some very nice shots and obviously talented martial artists. It's refreshing to see choreography where the combatants aren't pulling or anticipating punches.
I thought the sound overall complemented your story. Agree that the music is too high in the mix. I dunno, but maybe bring it down a little once dialogue begins? On the dialogue, to my ears it sounded like some of it was recorded indoors. Esp Quang Vu's laugh at the end. Nitpicking now, but the close shot of the one legged man put his walking stick down (in sync with the music) gave the feeling of threat. That was confusing. Maybe this was your intention? The absence of sound fx and ambient sound at the start (eg, feet running) felt a little unnatural. Again, maybe this was your choice.
The vignetting worked for me. It added to the feel. I liked the look overall.
Oh, and in your final version, be sure to include your homage to Monty Python's "The Holy Grail" in the credits. You know, where your amputee loses all of his limbs, and demands that the fight go on. :thumbsup:
I thought the sound overall complemented your story. Agree that the music is too high in the mix. I dunno, but maybe bring it down a little once dialogue begins? On the dialogue, to my ears it sounded like some of it was recorded indoors. Esp Quang Vu's laugh at the end. Nitpicking now, but the close shot of the one legged man put his walking stick down (in sync with the music) gave the feeling of threat. That was confusing. Maybe this was your intention? The absence of sound fx and ambient sound at the start (eg, feet running) felt a little unnatural. Again, maybe this was your choice.
The vignetting worked for me. It added to the feel. I liked the look overall.
Oh, and in your final version, be sure to include your homage to Monty Python's "The Holy Grail" in the credits. You know, where your amputee loses all of his limbs, and demands that the fight go on. :thumbsup:
Dvader
Well-known member
Good short I enjoyed it! Please do upload you full version if possible. Like others have said before me, I thought of Akira Kurosawa when I saw the opening shots of the sun through the trees. It's very similar to the shots in Rashomon but I'd like to point out for those interested, that this technique was used by Kurosawa in Nora Inu (Stray Dog) the year before he made Rashomon. The idea is the same but the setting is different, in a marketplace not a forest.
wmiller@csulb.edu
Well-known member
i liked it.... If the blowout look was what you were going for, then it looked great. If not, then well... the footage was blownout. Titles are hard to read, but other than that it was cool. I know how those 1 month film school projects are. They are just that, projects. Often times you run out of time and end up with something that may not be fully finished, but you gotta turn it in anyways...
good short.
good short.
ESTEBEVERDE
Veteran
Nice Work!!!!
Way to match footage of The Great Wall with your production.
Very nice.
Way to match footage of The Great Wall with your production.
Very nice.
Nice! You have a nice flow and eye for editing... I would suggest a more "chilling" soundtrack, with some Morricone style on the intense before battle moments. I would also suggest putting the end credits a bit latter. The Hero and the villain have the same hair style, and that's a bit confusing, but maybe you can set this apart with a color change, or something (hard work, I know).
You have excelent material there, and a good, simple and unpretencious short that's very well done. Spend some more time in post production (after your evaluation is over) and do send it to festivals. Again, with a bit more work on the editing side ( just polish it a bit more) and you could have a short that could help you do your (first) round in the festival circuit... After that, its chalenging for the prizes with a more ambitious project
)
EDIT- Work a bit more on the audio and SFX front. Its boring, but it will give it a whole different feel...
You have excelent material there, and a good, simple and unpretencious short that's very well done. Spend some more time in post production (after your evaluation is over) and do send it to festivals. Again, with a bit more work on the editing side ( just polish it a bit more) and you could have a short that could help you do your (first) round in the festival circuit... After that, its chalenging for the prizes with a more ambitious project
)EDIT- Work a bit more on the audio and SFX front. Its boring, but it will give it a whole different feel...
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Justin Marx
Well-known member
Great job.. I think your on the right path.. With just a little under your belt, you did a great job.. Everyone has their own idea how something should look.. It may not be the right idea.. I still hate the way some big budget pro's light certain movies, but hey, they still do it..
TO each his own.. Keep yourself creative, and only take advice if you don't like the way your project looks... You never know who will see it and like it exactly the way it is...
I myself think it's different, and has a very interesting look to it.. Don't change much just to please the critics.. no offence to the posters that are giving helpful advice, but sometimes we all have an idea of how things "should" look, myself included.. and forget that being creative and original is doing something different.. look at ART!
- - Justin
TO each his own.. Keep yourself creative, and only take advice if you don't like the way your project looks... You never know who will see it and like it exactly the way it is...
I myself think it's different, and has a very interesting look to it.. Don't change much just to please the critics.. no offence to the posters that are giving helpful advice, but sometimes we all have an idea of how things "should" look, myself included.. and forget that being creative and original is doing something different.. look at ART!
- - Justin