new shootout! HVX200 versus....hvx200! deathmatch!

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Just a word of caution here. I've yet to hear of a monitor adding noise to a signal but I guess it's possible. I've sure seen monitors hide noise though, in fact many modern display deivces do as they crush the black end.
Now the 2405 doesn't seem to show any excessive noise fed from say the Z1, if it truly was adding noise to the signal how come it's not being seen with the Z1?
Also the smaller HD monitors aren't displaying native 1080, they're downscaling i.e. averaging pixels, so any noise will appear less apparent.
There could well be something screwball with the 2405 however its a huge leap to start blaming the test instrument rather than the signal source without some detailed investigation.
 
robroysyd said:
There could well be something screwball with the 2405 however its a huge leap to start blaming the test instrument rather than the signal source without some detailed investigation.
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My thoughts exactly. The Dell MAY not be the nicest monitor for video, but why then are the complaints only seeming to be from HVX200 users? Why do Z1 or HD100 users with Dell monitors not seem to be complaining of noise?

And if I recall correctly, then other posters have complained of macroblocking who weren't using the Dell monitors, and have even posted screengrabs to illustrate what they don't like. How can they be attributed to one particular make of monitor?

But can we get back on to the original topic? The idea of 'happy' users getting together with 'unhappy' users, together with their cameras is something I suggested a while ago, and is the only way I can realistically think of settling this whole irritable debate.

Personally, I think it unlikely that either Barry and the other satisfied users are failing to spot what others find a significant flaw, or that so many people are just being hypercritical about a 'new toy' that they would be expected to defend to the death. If the complaints aren't simply tied to one brand of monitor (and I don't think they are), the only explanation I can think of is that all HVX200s are not equal. There is a quality control issue, such that some look fantastic, others less so. But the only way this will ever be finally sorted out once and for all is a 'shoot out' between satisfied and dissatisfied customers. The sooner the better.
 
Yes, i agree HardDrive. I have an Apple Cinema Display, both a 20" and a 23", both show the HVX noise issue to its full degree. When i set the gama to 1.0 (instead of 1.3 mac standard?) the noise is lessend in some areas, but ive found this to be to dark when viewing material. With this whole monitor issue, i think people are just beating around the bush.


Rhydon
 
Barry_Green said:
The Dell is a hideous monitor for video. Or, at least, it works hideously when combined with the HVX, that's for sure.
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And this is actually a surprise????

I have been saying this for the past two months.....all that crazy noise threads from people using the cheapest "video" monitors they can buy.
Glad I shot early on real production HD monitors before all the noise threads boomed. Just think how many guys got scared off from the HVX and jumped to HDV without seeing for themselves.
 
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Hi all:

What have been your results in using the Dell 2405 as an editing monitor? I have already been using it as a field monitor with the HVX-200 and I agree, it's not very good. I am curious about anyone using it with a BMD HDLink or the AJA HD/SDI to DVI box? Does it look more acceptable as an edit bay monitor when fed through DVI than it does as a field monitor?

Thanks,

Dan
 
puredrifting said:
I am curious about anyone using it with a BMD HDLink or the AJA HD/SDI to DVI box? Does it look more acceptable as an edit bay monitor when fed through DVI than it does as a field monitor?
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Oh yeah... both the Dell and the HP2335 are completely different animals when hooked up with the HDLink for HD-SDI to DVI conversion... much, much, much better than the component inputs.

Both these monitors have mediocre to poor VGA and component inputs, that's not where they spent the money. Also, the HP doesn't respect 16:9 and stretches it to full screen top and bottom when coming in component.

Regards,

Jim A.
 
Jim Arthurs said:
Oh yeah... both the Dell and the HP2335 are completely different animals when hooked up with the HDLink for HD-SDI to DVI conversion... much, much, much better than the component inputs.

Both these monitors have mediocre to poor VGA and component inputs, that's not where they spent the money. Also, the HP doesn't respect 16:9 and stretches it to full screen top and bottom when coming in component.

Regards,

Jim A.
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Yea, the HP L2335 isn't the greatest in component or any of the "video" modes really. The option is there, but my happiness comes from the colors and viewing angle. Uses the same monitor as the Apple's do, only costs much less.
 
the DELL is a very good LCD for a very good price. but it's a computer monitor not a video monitor .. it is good to take on set - you can view 1920x1080 images but DO not make your CC/or image judgements based on it .. just use it as general sort of ball park. i believe that Adam Wilt has some comments on the dell and hp 24" LCD's on his site ...
IMO you can take any HD clips and view on 4 different computer LCD's and you'll have 4 different takes on it = IMO 90% of the time the artifacts/banding/etc are with the LCD not the clip ..
 
Hey Rhydon,
What are you using for a field monitor, and how does it compare to the Apple? We have the Panasonic 17" and Panasonic 50" plasma set up here in the store and by far the 17" gives the cleanest, least noisy image!
BTW, ,how's it going with your camera?
 
brianluce said:
Similar to the jvc hd100’s split screen problem which some people have and some don’t, the hvx seems to present problems for some people with this noise blocking issue but others say it actually enhances the image or doesn’t exist at all. Just wondering if both cams, being newborns, suffer from quality control issues. That all hvx’s aren’t created equal. Maybe some of you guys SHOULD do some HVX versus HVX comparisons. Might be easier and more instructive than sending camera to panny, which can be like a black hole.
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Good info everyone, but you guys are missing the point of this thread. We need HVX people to physically come together to see if their cameras look the same under the same conditions and if the noise (or any other issue) is in the eye of the beholder or if some of the cameras are just defective.

I've complained about the noise and would love to get together with someone who says it is a non issue. Anyone in CT? It might be faster if LA or NYC people get together. I would rather do this before sending the camera in. Any takers?
 
I think it is in the eye of the beholder but it would be a very interesting test. There seems to be plenty of you in LA and NYC to be able to get together easily and would maybe put the noise thing to rest.
-A
 
We'll have more HVX users together next monday than likely any other place (at the DVXUser NAB hospitality suite). I'm trying to arrange to see if we can broadcast the footage we showed at the HD Bootcamp.
 
I wonder if people just posted stills of 5 second clips of their HVX recording for a few seconds with the "lens cap" on, whether that would give us some evidence of the noise issue. It's about as standardized as you can get I think.

Would that work?
 
Doubt that would be conclusive, and my understanding is that complainants have mentioned the problem as most visible in dark levels, but above black.

It really needs people to get together with their cameras and monitoring gear, with some neutral observers, and I'd suggest some other makes of camera as a 'control'. I would expect one of three possible outcomes:

1/ Significant differences between cameras, and everybody agreeing a quality control issue.
2/ The 'neutral observers' saying to the complainants "you're making a fuss about THAT"!
3/The 'neutral observers' saying to the satisfied users "you don't think THAT is a problem!?"

If 2 or 3 then the issue gets settled once and for all and most people can forget about it. If 1/ then at least everybody is in agreement, and the affected users will know they have a genuine greivance and hopefully be able to get the units fixed. Whatever, we can all move on from simply debating it ad nauseum, whilst proving nothing.
 
One, how do you define a neutral observer? Two, how would 3/ settle anything? If it's 3/, then I'll be checking out other options for a new camera. I strongly suspect that its 2/ (provided we find truly neutral observers).
 
I think harddrive has a good formula here. 2 and 3 don't really have to be neutral . if they are looking at identical side by side images and see them differently then it is in the eye of the beholder. If they can agree that there are differences in the identical shots then it is quality control in the manufacture.
-A
 
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