I am not trying to start a negative thread by any means. I would like to convey what has become a big frustration for me with my HVX. I have had it since Feb 3rd so I am not new to it. I have seen the threads regarding noise and I have kept out of them. I did not have an HD tv until just 30 days ago so all the footage I reviewed was on the computer LCD and I just ignored the perceived noise.
Upon finally viewing the footage on my HDTV (28" CRT) I was surprised at how much of the noise I saw was still visible when viewed on it. The other surprise was that the 720P footage didn't look all that hi def to me. I mean it does look better than SD but it doesn't seem to have that wow factor that HD usually gives. Even switching to 1080 24PA didn't really make it shine.
The noise is almost always in areas of shadow or gradients where the the light is not bright enough to create a clean image but not dark enough to disappear. I have convinced myself that I am just being anal over it and decided to say "screw it" and just shoot good footage and ignore the noise as nobody would notice it anyway.
Well I did a shoot with the HVX for our local church that entailed children gather around table coloring easter eggs. This was pro bono as I wanted to test out the camera under controlled lighting. The scene was very well lit and quite frankly overlit but I was trying to avoid noise. I shot it and edited it together with no CC. I used no gain the default F6 setting.
I showed it to a few close friends who are not technical but are familiar with my work in the past so they at least have some expectations of what it is going to look like.
After a few minutes my wife says "why is it so noisy?".
I about choked. I had been convincing myself that I was making too much of it.
She said "This doesn't look as clean as the footage you shot with your old XL2".
I about choked again.
Then someone said "shouldn't your new camera look better than your old one?"
I choked again and explained that the noise was a trade off for having high definition CCDs.
"this is high definition?"
I about screamed. "yes" I replied.
" I knew your camera did hi def but I thought this was SD to tape. That's what it looks like. Shouldn't hi-def look really clean?"
Man I wanted to scream! I have had this feeling all along that the image didn't look very hi def. I had this feeling all along that the noise was me being paranoid. I had finally convinced myself that it is a non issue.
And now 2 out of 3 people (non techies) watching had made comments on the noise and that it looked like SD. WTF?
My frustration comes from choosing Panasonic over the other due to the DVCPRO-HD benefits. Which feels like a wash because I feel like footage is compromised before it ever reaches the encoding stage. When color correcting it gets all mucked up very quick. It doesn't seem as robust as I thought. Of course I have invested in the P2 workflow as a result and find that all the troubles of dumping P2 cards and backing up and archiving are not being balanced out by immaculate footage. Often times I see HD100 clips or XL-H1 clips and think they look cleaner and less noisy.....despite being HDV. I also chose the HVX200 because of its potential to be a better low light camera than the other cameras and there overcramped CCDs. At this moment I will say honestly that this camera is at it's weakest in low light settings. Not darkrooms mind you...but scenes that are lit dramatically with combinations of well lit areas and shadows to create dramatic lighting.
I have even downloaded some of the raw m2t files posted by pappas from the H1 and Hd-100 and edited and color corrected and found it to hold up well and not be noisy. Am I missing something here?
I love the HVX because of the wide angle lens, the "mojo" and it's ease of use. But I am finding that many scenes that are well lit to just a tiny bit dark are coming out noisy and looking lower res than I believe HD cameras should look. In all fairness some outside shots look amazingly crisp and clear....but I don't shoot that much outside stuff.
Are the other HD cameras really cleaner and sharper? Cause at this point I feel sick saying this but I am not getting that "wow" feeling when watching HD footage from the camera. In fact....I popped in a DVD of some XL2 footage I shot last year and it looked darn sharp......I guess I was expecting too much of HD?
I felt more wowed with my XL2 footage over my old DVX. I could clearly see a cleaner sharper 16x9 DV in that case. Where I am now I just don't feel like I am getting the "bang" for the "buck".
Sorry for the long post. I am just feeling a little sick to my stomach over the investment I have made and seeing problems in these areas. Anyone have any words of wisdom for my troubled soul?
Upon finally viewing the footage on my HDTV (28" CRT) I was surprised at how much of the noise I saw was still visible when viewed on it. The other surprise was that the 720P footage didn't look all that hi def to me. I mean it does look better than SD but it doesn't seem to have that wow factor that HD usually gives. Even switching to 1080 24PA didn't really make it shine.
The noise is almost always in areas of shadow or gradients where the the light is not bright enough to create a clean image but not dark enough to disappear. I have convinced myself that I am just being anal over it and decided to say "screw it" and just shoot good footage and ignore the noise as nobody would notice it anyway.
Well I did a shoot with the HVX for our local church that entailed children gather around table coloring easter eggs. This was pro bono as I wanted to test out the camera under controlled lighting. The scene was very well lit and quite frankly overlit but I was trying to avoid noise. I shot it and edited it together with no CC. I used no gain the default F6 setting.
I showed it to a few close friends who are not technical but are familiar with my work in the past so they at least have some expectations of what it is going to look like.
After a few minutes my wife says "why is it so noisy?".
I about choked. I had been convincing myself that I was making too much of it.
She said "This doesn't look as clean as the footage you shot with your old XL2".
I about choked again.
Then someone said "shouldn't your new camera look better than your old one?"
I choked again and explained that the noise was a trade off for having high definition CCDs.
"this is high definition?"
I about screamed. "yes" I replied.
" I knew your camera did hi def but I thought this was SD to tape. That's what it looks like. Shouldn't hi-def look really clean?"
Man I wanted to scream! I have had this feeling all along that the image didn't look very hi def. I had this feeling all along that the noise was me being paranoid. I had finally convinced myself that it is a non issue.
And now 2 out of 3 people (non techies) watching had made comments on the noise and that it looked like SD. WTF?
My frustration comes from choosing Panasonic over the other due to the DVCPRO-HD benefits. Which feels like a wash because I feel like footage is compromised before it ever reaches the encoding stage. When color correcting it gets all mucked up very quick. It doesn't seem as robust as I thought. Of course I have invested in the P2 workflow as a result and find that all the troubles of dumping P2 cards and backing up and archiving are not being balanced out by immaculate footage. Often times I see HD100 clips or XL-H1 clips and think they look cleaner and less noisy.....despite being HDV. I also chose the HVX200 because of its potential to be a better low light camera than the other cameras and there overcramped CCDs. At this moment I will say honestly that this camera is at it's weakest in low light settings. Not darkrooms mind you...but scenes that are lit dramatically with combinations of well lit areas and shadows to create dramatic lighting.
I have even downloaded some of the raw m2t files posted by pappas from the H1 and Hd-100 and edited and color corrected and found it to hold up well and not be noisy. Am I missing something here?
I love the HVX because of the wide angle lens, the "mojo" and it's ease of use. But I am finding that many scenes that are well lit to just a tiny bit dark are coming out noisy and looking lower res than I believe HD cameras should look. In all fairness some outside shots look amazingly crisp and clear....but I don't shoot that much outside stuff.
Are the other HD cameras really cleaner and sharper? Cause at this point I feel sick saying this but I am not getting that "wow" feeling when watching HD footage from the camera. In fact....I popped in a DVD of some XL2 footage I shot last year and it looked darn sharp......I guess I was expecting too much of HD?
I felt more wowed with my XL2 footage over my old DVX. I could clearly see a cleaner sharper 16x9 DV in that case. Where I am now I just don't feel like I am getting the "bang" for the "buck".
Sorry for the long post. I am just feeling a little sick to my stomach over the investment I have made and seeing problems in these areas. Anyone have any words of wisdom for my troubled soul?
