New To Audio? - Read This First Please

A cardioid is just a type of mic... this has been said before, but the pattern is shaped like a heart. (box of candy heart, not human 4-chamber model)

All these mics are CONDENSERS, but "shotgun" is a general term applied to any mic which utilizes an interferrence tube. When you see the long mic with the slots down the tube... the mic diaphragm is at the BOTTOM of that tube... near where the slots end. That slotted barrell is the interferrence tube.

If you don't see that tube then technically it is not a shotgun. It's pretty hard to distinguish a cardioid from a hyper-cardioid just by looking at them... that's why they show the pattern on the mic or otherwise label the head... but it's easy to tell a shotgun from a cardioid or hyper cardioid.

Here's 4 hypers (who's cardioid counterparts appear to be indentical):
Sennheiser me64, AKG ck63, Scheops mk41, Oktava mk012

4hypers.jpg


Now here's 3 shotguns: ck69, me66, 416

3guns.jpg
 
OK got ya. So I was mostly right in a way. Shotgun is a type of mic/tubing but it being a cardioid does not make it a shotgun by default and I completey understand the slots since a friend of mine owns a music studio. He was the one who explained it to me and I guess he just generalized to make it easier to understand.
 
read some from small site call "schoeps.de"

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Shotgun Microphones[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Certain types of recording are frequently made with shotgun microphones. SCHOEPS has never offered this type of microphone, and we are often asked why not. We agree that good shotgun microphones have their uses, but we suggest that their peculiarities be well understood; shotguns may not be the optimal choice as often as people suppose.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A shotgun microphone contains a directional transducer (e.g. a supercardioid capsule) and an “interference tube.” The tube causes any sound energy arriving from the sides to undergo partial cancellation before it can reach the capsule. The exact degree of this cancellation depends greatly on the wavelength of the sound. For wavelengths longer than the tube – at low and midrange frequencies – the tube has little effect except, unfortunately, to distance the capsule further from the sound source than it would otherwise be. (The transducer is located behind the tube – not at the front end of the microphone.)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Thus throughout much of the audio range, a shotgun microphone has no greater rejection of off-axis sound than the capsule on which it is based. At higher frequencies the pickup pattern becomes narrower, but with great variations in response for different angles and frequencies. The result is a much more complex directional characteristic than ordinary polar diagrams (drawn only at certain “spot” frequencies) can indicate directly.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A shotgun microphone must therefore be well aimed at the intended sound source, and that source must fit within the microphone’s front pickup angle. Otherwise, comb-filter-like effects will result from any reflected sound, off-axis sound sources, or motion of the direct sound source (or of the microphone itself, if it is used in a reverberant space). If an actor moves across a room while speaking or singing, his or her motions can no doubt be followed – but sound from any other actors nearby, and any sound reflections within the room, will be picked up with varying coloration. Conditions in which there is little reflected sound energy (e.g. outdoor recording) and limited off-axis sound in general are thus best for shotgun microphones. In a diffuse sound field (i.e. at significant distances indoors) they are less effective than one might wish, and they tend toward a harsher sound quality.[/FONT]


now you can ask for apology from the Georgian farmer , he forgot to mention that there are figure of 8 shotguns as well - they just look to different direction :-)
 
MattinSTL said:
A cardioid is just a type of mic... this has been said before, but the pattern is shaped like a heart. (box of candy heart, not human 4-chamber model)

All these mics are CONDENSERS, but "shotgun" is a general term applied to any mic which utilizes an interferrence tube. When you see the long mic with the slots down the tube... the mic diaphragm is at the BOTTOM of that tube... near where the slots end. That slotted barrell is the interferrence tube.

If you don't see that tube then technically it is not a shotgun. It's pretty hard to distinguish a cardioid from a hyper-cardioid just by looking at them... that's why they show the pattern on the mic or otherwise label the head... but it's easy to tell a shotgun from a cardioid or hyper cardioid.

Here's 4 hypers (who's cardioid counterparts appear to be indentical):
Sennheiser me64, AKG ck63, Scheops mk41, Oktava mk012

4hypers.jpg


Now here's 3 shotguns: ck69, me66, 416

3guns.jpg
Click to expand...



Is that black Oktava any different than the gold one?

Yankee, the lists you provided in this thread earlier, with the prices, can you tell me what site you were basing it on?
 
Exile... I've been waiting for Scheops to take that off the site... They have a whole discussion about why people should use hypers anytime possible and how shotguns can really suck in certain circumstances... and now the CMIT. D'oh!

The Oktava comes in Silver or Black... www.sound-room.com (coupon code "DV")
 
its not about if you have to work with or not it ,about what is the shot gun is
some people here explain it in some strange way - cardioid shotgun - i liked that , i just put the pzm shot gun now( hemisphere) -:)
 
This is just expanding on what people have written previously. Feel free to skip.

Check out this page for a brief description of mic patterns:
http://www.dpamicrophones.com/page.php?PID=25

One of the differences between [omni, cardioid, fig8, hyper] and [shotgun/lobar/interference] mics is in how the pattern is generated. Omnis and fig 8 patterns are generated by taking your mic membrane and either covering one side (omni) or leaving both sides open (Fig 8). cardioid, sub cardioid, and hypercardioids (of the schoeps mk41 and mkh50 variety) can be formed by mixing an omni signal and a figure 8 signal to varying degrees. The cardioid pattern is formed by mixing omni and fig8 in a 50/50 ratio. Hyper and sub are made by changing that ratio. One overlooked feature of hypers is that they have a lobe on the back, which is a good reason not to mount one on a camera - it's sensitive to the camera operator too. Cardioids reject the rear the best out of any mic pattern at the expense of having more sensitivity on the side compared to a good hyper.

Shotguns, often described as lobar or interference mics, have a long tube with a bunch of slots in it. This tube is constructed in such a way that sounds entering from the side cancels with itself, reducing sensitivity on the side. This cancellation is frequency dependent, becoming much less effective at lower frequencies. The important note related to the above argument is that you can't get this kind of pattern by just combining omni and fig 8 in a set ratio.

By the way, the bit about combining omni's and fig 8's is what lets us do Mid/Side recording. Since a cardioid is an omni and fig 8 in a 50/50 ratio, if one were to do MS with an omni and a fig 8, you would get 2 cardioids facing back to back, one pointed directly left and the other pointed directly right. MS is usually done with other mid mics than omni, and the resulting set of patterns and angles between them depends on the mid mic. I believe MS with 2 fig 8 mics is equivalent to Blumlein (two fig 8s in XY pattern with 90 degree angle between them).

This is all a bit academic, especially since only a handful of manufacturers make a true fig 8 mic with only one diaphragm (not counting ribbon mics). The Sennheiser MKH 30 and the Schoeps Mk 8 come to mind - Neumann might make one as well. Secondly, Schoeps doesn't make the wonderful Mk41 by slapping 2 diaphragms in there and mixing them together. They selectively mix the front and the back of the diaphragm together to get the desired pattern. Also, most guys doing video don't give a crap about all these patterns - a good hyper and a good shotgun will do most of what needs to be done.

Returning to the cardioid/shotgun discussion: I'm not a mic designer/engineer, but I can't think of many good reasons for calling something a cardioid shotgun. If its a cardioid mic, it has a very specific pattern. Shotguns can have varying patterns depending on the length and construction of the mic. Whatever it might end up looking like, it won't be a cardioid pattern, so why call it a cardioid shotgun? In terms of directionality, think omni->subcardioid->cardioid->hypercardioid (schoeps mkh41/senn MKH50 type)->short shotgun (MKH416/60)->long shotgun (MKH 816/70).

When I say hyper above, I mean mics like the Schoeps mk 41, senn MKH 50, the oktava with the hyper cap, AKG 480 + hyper cap (91, 93?), etc.

This is a great site for mic data:
http://www.microphone-data.com/
 
That me66, 64, Scheops, and 416... sadly for the last two... are not mine. The 416 actually was mine... but the others never were. I sold my ME mics and never looked back... ever.

Exile... my point was that Scheops made an argument for years that a shotgun was NEVER a better choice then a super/hyper... they said that you should adjust your shooting to accomodate... and now that they have the CMIT shotgun (after years and years of begging) I wonder how long it will be before they adjust the thesis on why a shotgun is always inferior to their super/hyper.
 
My question is, what is Matt doing with an ME66 & ME64 again?
Click to expand...

LOL! As Matt pointed out, those aren't his, they're mine (as are the Schoeps and the 416).

I keep the two ME mics for a couple of reasons:

1) It's nice to have some mics I don't mind putting in harms way.

2) I have two mics that I don't mind lending out(a friend of mine recently was going to Africa with his DVX, and was eyeing my Schoeps that I was shooting with that day. Sorry, but that baby doesn't leave my sight. But I gladly offered the two ME mics with the Rycote softie that I still have that fits them.

3) Probably a bit of sentiment. Like many, the ME-66 was my first mic purchase.

4) I think the ME-64 is a better hyper than the ME-66 is a shotgun (if you catch my drift). I think the 64 gets a bad rap by being associated with the 66. So as long as I'm going to keep the 64 as a "not bad hyper" I might as well also keep the 66. At least for now.
 
I'm still not crazy about the 64, but I agree, it is much better than the 66. I think part of the big problem with the 66 is that a lot of people get it and think it is a miracle mic and therefore use it indoors, outdoors, on camera. A mic that is overused and use improperly with improper technique obviously develops a bad rep. Then again, I just don't like how that shotgun sounds (but it does have good reach).

I understand why you have the 66, but I'm still gonna bust your balls about it :)

-Jeremy
 
So... what is a shotgun again?

jk =) Very good stuff. Manufacturers and users throw the terms around and interchange them with others making it confusing. Hopefully this clears things up for many. I know I threw the shotgun term around haphazardly, I know its not cardroid pattern technically, but until one has hands on experience with the mics the words and concepts can get jumbled together, thank god for MattinSL to fix the mess =)
 
I thought I asked this, but guess not.

Yankee, the packages you listed in the beginning of the thread, can I ask you where you got the pricings from? and what website I can purchase the stuff from, do you also know where I can buy that stuff here locally? I don't want a specific store seeing how you don't live here, but I mean, what type of stores carry that stuff? the Mic I can get, but the rest of the stuff I can't seem to find.
 
FilmMakerr said:
I thought I asked this, but guess not.

Yankee, the packages you listed in the beginning of the thread, can I ask you where you got the pricings from? and what website I can purchase the stuff from, do you also know where I can buy that stuff here locally? I don't want a specific store seeing how you don't live here, but I mean, what type of stores carry that stuff? the Mic I can get, but the rest of the stuff I can't seem to find.
Click to expand...

No problem... There are a lot of places where you can get gear, but here are some of the places I've dealt with and had good experiences:

Oktava from www.sound-room.com along with the Sambra Shockmount and Wind Protection (the foam one). If you enter DV in the coupon code you get a discount.

Headphones, Rode Shotgun Mic (or ME66 if you want to go that route), stands and other misc. stuff (external recorder) from www.americanmusical.com (they offer a split payment option where they will bill you three times over three months on purchase of $300 or five times over five months on orders over $1000, nice for people who are broke or don't like to save like me).

KTek KSSM & Audio Technica 4073a from www.locationsound.com

Cables - PM MattinSTL.

Rycote Softie, BBG, and other misc. stuff from www.evsonline.com. Call them and ask for the DVXUser.com discount.

A lot of the other dealers listed are great. I've had good experiences with B&H, Coffey, and others, but these are just my suggestions.

-Jeremy
 
To come back to this, I have put together two or three other packages that I think will work well for people with higher budgets and will get those posted this evening.

-Jeremy
 
Anywhere in Southern California to demonstrate or buy an Octava mic?

Coffey Sound and Location Sound don't seem to have it?
 
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