New To Audio? - Read This First Please

My posts are anything but well thought out, more like mindless ramblings out of frustration and a weird desire of trying to help people accomplish the same things that other people have tried to help me accomplish. If anything, my posts are nothing but creative plagerism, taking other people's ideas and concepts with my experience thrown in and just rewriting it in a consise (c'mon, who didn't laugh at me calling anything I post concise) single thought train.

Hopefully someone will take advantage of a couple of things that I post and be able to either increase their personal productions or better tool themselves for professional work.

Regarding Kung Fu, my King Fu is weak compared to others, including you Matt, and the only reason I get a pebble is because rather than grabbing it I decided it was just easier to throw a rock at you and allow the pebble to fall out of your hand... See, and I took that idea from that Pink Strikes Back film (see the cafe Star Wars thread)... I'm telling you, creative plagerism.

-Jeremy
 
TheYankee said:
For my projects I have done ADR (additional dialogue recording)
Click to expand...
A common misconception., ADR is actually Automatic Dialogue Replacement. Not really a big deal and many have come to understand it is Additional Dialogue Recording but if nothing else you can use that knowledge to win a bar bet some time.

Same thing if someone tells you they know what MOS stands for. Despite endless debating and people claiming they know, no one knows for sure (although my money is on Motor Only Sync and not Mit Out Sound but the crews I work with learn it means Minus Objectional Sound dept). :D
 
TheYankee said:
The 4043a to my understanding is a hyper cardiod mic. It is more ideally suited for interiors. I like the 4073a as a professional shotgun that is half the price of the MKH416, an industry standard shotgun microphone from Sennheiser. The differences, which are well documented on this site, are that the Sennheiser has better rear rejection and a tighter pattern. I also feel that the Sennheiser sounds a bit more organic and natural, but others have different opinions. Personally, for the money, the 4073a being half the price of the MKH416 the 4073a is the best value & highest performance microphone I have ever used/owned.

All shotgun microphones can be used on a boompole. In fact, I believe that microphones, unless we are talking about lavalier mics, should only be used on a boompole. From my experience the closest mic is the one that sounds the best. I do not even like to use anything camera mounted and really believe that filmmaking is a collabrative effort. That being said, a $180 Oktava on a boom above a speaker will sound better than a $1100 MKH416 camera mounted four feet away.

Any microphone should be able to be used on a boompole though.

For voice over stuff, now you get into a tricky area of preference. For my projects I have done ADR (additional dialogue recording) as well as just random voice over stuff, and depending on the project either use an Oktava hyper cardiod boomed above the speaker and record to a DAT or directly to the computer (using a tool like sound forge or Vegas) or I have used a studio microphone. I prefer to use the same microphone that I am using for the rest of the project so that the characteristics and flavor of the mic remain similar throughout the project. Essentially every microphone has a signature sound. The more expensive microphones have less of a noticable signature sound and become more neutral. A great example of this is the ME66. The ME66 shotgun microphone from Sennheiser is very thin sounding and has this noticable lack of depth is the low and mid range. I'm just not a fan of that microphone.

You will be able to record to any device with the gear I have listed in the various kits.

One final note: I talk a lot about the Oktava, and I really believe that this little, inexpensive microphone is the best value and best performer for virtually any project. It is a tiny microphone that sounds, well, it sounds like you are getting Hollywood caliber sound out of it. I love this little microphone, but had it not been for MattinSTL I would never have known about this mic, let alone had an opportunity to own one. I really believe that when it comes down to gear, this is the one instrument in my tool kit that is my weapon of choice. Any time I go into a sound situation I ask myself if I can make the Oktava work in this situation, and most of the time, I can. I have a lot of microphones, and the Oktava is the first one I turn to constantly, and it is the least expensive of them all. I don't work for them, but I took the advice of a friend and got one, and have never looked back. I have used this mic for interviews, commercials, band recordings, instrument recordings, and short films. It is really my magic bullet. Matt should be given a medal or something for spreading the word about this great tool rather than keeping the knowledge to himself.

-Jeremy
Click to expand...


Great, answered everything.

Yeah, I knew that I could also record over a different program for a voice over, such as on Acid Pro, then mix it in with the video, but I also didn't know I could connect the Oktava or just any shotgun/boom mic to a adapter, and then plug it into my computer, that is new to me, even though I have a studio microphone at home, but just like you said Id like to record with the same one I record the movie with, this way it sounds really authentic.

Thanks for the advice.
 
Actually, I had another question. I noticed in the kits you listed, in some, you litsed two microphones such as this one:

"Kit #6: Self Distributed Short Film Producer Kit
Who It's For: People putting together short films indoors and outdoors, and looking to cut corners where possible to save money but still want decent results.
Includes: Oktava MK012 w/ Hyper Cardiod Cap ($180), Rode NTG1 Shotgun Mic ($250), Windscreen ($50), High Wind Screen ($50), Sambra Shockmount ($50), Gitzo 10' Boompole ($120). Total Cost: $700"

Why is that? is it a must to have two microphones?
 
FilmMakerr said:
Actually, I had another question. I noticed in the kits you listed, in some, you litsed two microphones such as this one:

"Kit #6: Self Distributed Short Film Producer Kit
Who It's For: People putting together short films indoors and outdoors, and looking to cut corners where possible to save money but still want decent results.
Includes: Oktava MK012 w/ Hyper Cardiod Cap ($180), Rode NTG1 Shotgun Mic ($250), Windscreen ($50), High Wind Screen ($50), Sambra Shockmount ($50), Gitzo 10' Boompole ($120). Total Cost: $700"

Why is that? is it a must to have two microphones?
Click to expand...

TheYankee said:
Once you get into features multiple microphones for different situations are normally required with the possibility of multiple microphones for exteriors and interiors.
Click to expand...

From this thread (stickie at the top of the forum): http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=47504

TheYankee said:
1. Hyper cardiod microphone for interiors and shotgun for exteriors. If you stick to this you will know more than most people who post microphone buying questions.
Click to expand...


Of course, a "must" is realitive to what sort of quality you expect to get.

Cheers
 
Well, as a beginner, you see I just got my camera, and I'm looking to make shorts, think I really need two microphones right now?
 
TheYankee said:
7. A lot of people believe that if they are doing a project that they need to buy the gear. This is simply not true. I have thousands and thousands of dollars (which is tens of thousands of dollars less that Matt, Oleg, Ty, Wabbit, and others) invested into sound. I rent stuff all the time because for $50 for a weekend I can have a $1000 microphone. Now, if I am going to use it everyday and make a living off it, then I should buy, but if I'm not I get 20 rentals before I could own that mic. 20 rentals is a lot of great use of this microphone without having to save $1000 (filmmakers are bad at saving up for stuff).
8. I'm a huge advocate of hiring someone. Always have been and always will. Every time I recommend this to someone they say that they can't afford it or simply that they want to own the gear. Regardless that someone buying the gear cannot possibly afford to purchase or invest the time to learn this gear inside and out, people want to own stuff. I understand that because lets say that you want to shoot a buddy jerking off. Then it makes sense to be able to have sound. Needless to say, set your expectations accordingly. If you can hire someone, then it is 99.999999% of the time a better idea to bring a sound person along to do sound rather than try to do it yourself (I'm sure if you ask every single one of the pros on this board how many times they have worked at a reduced fee or for next to nothing to help someone out or to be involved in a project they believed in you will be surprised by the results).
Click to expand...

Try starting out with one of those smaller kits Jeremy suggested. See how it works for you. There are many more questions to be answered then just what one or two mics to buy if you are hoping to learn how to get good audio. First one would be, who do you intend to get to boom and monitor the audio? Perhaps this person should be asking these questions instead of you.

TheYankee said:
9. Do you have a friend? If you say yes, then you have someone to run sound. I never recommend running sound if you are directing, shooting, or jerking off in the corner.
Click to expand...

Find the friend that has an interest in audio. He can learn and grow as you do.

Good luck
 
Of course I've got a friend that will help with audio, lol, but that isn't really one of my worries, I just worry that I will start low, and will have to upgrade spending even more money. Just like many people wanted me to get an GL2 instead of the Dvx, I said no, and bought the DVX, now I'm happier than ever, and I can use it pretty well now.
 
Well that would be one of the nice parts of the kits Jeremy put together. You don't replace them, you add to them. The Kit 3 was like $400? Call that a starters kit to discover what else you will need as you are learning what works and what doesn't.

When you discover a hyper doesn't have the rejection you want for outdoor shots, or if got a shotgun (say the AT4073) and discover it sounds nasty indoors, then you buy some more mics to build on your kit.

Take a read from this thread:http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=34033

Somewhere in there I remember Matt (I think it was him) posted up a nice order in which to buy your equipment.

Make sure to get Jay Rose's book in order to learn what to actually do with the equipment. http://www.dplay.com/book/pgs2e/index.html

Good luck
 
About the Oktava, and two mics for indoor/outdoor. Which I have known, but what about using a cardroid/shotgun cap on the Oktava for outside?I've read just use hyper if use outside, it's better than the cardroid cap by far. So with right protection (wind (add a jammer to bbg) and mount) just stick wiith hyper? Sorta answering my own question... lol.
 
Last edited:
what is cardioid /shotgun ?
is it something new - never heard before - we dont have it here in Georgia .
i know octava, we have allot here , very cheap mic ,something like 40 euro .
do you think it will be good to use it on the mountain ?
and who are the audio gurus on that forum , it seems that no one is really give straight answers , asked about what mic to buy and there is guy who jumped he wants to record the movie - that is not professional ,i think .
__________________
 
Last edited:
how could the cardioid bee shotgun if its take wider image then the super cardioid, could you explain me , i dont get it ?
 
Shotgun is a type of mic The cardiod is the polar pattern of the mic.
Look at the weblink I provided. Super Cardioid is also a polar pattern just like Omni Directional.


here is a excerpt from a web article about audio
http://www.lafcpug.org/review_shotgun_mic.html
"Shotgun mic" is actually a generic term that has come to classify microphones of several types. The "shotgun" mic used to typically be a true condenser (externally powered) long microphone, but has now come to mean almost any long barreled microphone with a narrow acceptance angle.


Cardioid
Super Cardioid
Lobar/Gun

These could include various types of mics termed by their manufacturers as "cardioid", "super cardioid", and "lobar/gun " as well as several other "creative" terms. In a typical field audio kit, the shotgun mic is typically the sound source for around 50 to 70% of what you hear actually ending up in the final mix for films and television. The reason is that, correctly used, a shotgun microphone will pick up the voices of the talent with a comfortable amount of the surrounding ambient sound. Unlike the sterile, close mic'd sound that is typical with a lavaliere microphone, the shotgun mic usually exhibits a fuller, richer and more pleasing sound quality. However, it is a mistake to think of a shotgun mic as a magical device that can only selectively pick up a specific sound while totally rejecting all sounds to the side or rear of the microphone. The way sound behaves is more complex than can be explained in this review, but suffice it to say, a shotgun mic is the correct tool for many audio tasks but it is not an all-purpose solution to every audio challenge. The shotgun mic is the logical place to begin in building a high quality field audio package."
 
Last edited:
ok , ill check again cardioid shotgun , as it sounds it have much better sound then hyper cardioid shotgun or super cardioid ,is it true or i do mistake?
and what about omni shotgun it might be even better - or i am wrong , sorry I'm completely new buy-
 
Read the sticky at the top of the audio section and then the threads that the sticky links to. That's a good place to start.

-Jeremy
 
that what i do Jeremy,
thanks
cardioid shotgun - i have to ask around ,maybe local station has a junk one
 
Guys a cardioid is NOT a shotgun.

A cardioid is not a narrow acceptance angle... it is a fairly WIDE acceptance angle... a cardioid is nearly 1/2 of the omni bubble. Sure it's a little narrower then an omni... and the back half of the circle is gone... but it's still a wide swath out front.

A shotgun can be super-cardioid, or lobar... but don't get caught up in those terms... for some reason manufacturers like to categorize the product in these ways and it's really a matter of the ACTUAL PATTERN rather then the names chosen as part of the marketing of the mic, but one thing's for sure... a cardioid or even hyper is not a shotgun.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top