Just came back from a show using the HVX

[The Sarlacc]

Here is an email I just sent out to some close friends.

I'm sure many of the complaints/issues I have listed have been mentioned on here before, but I am not going to cycle through a million and one posts.

These are my impressions of this camera and what I would like to see added and changed. I added pros because while I do find many flaws in this camera I don't hate it, and would willingly use it again. I would still pick this camera over the other 3 options for small chipped HD cameras.

Feel free to add or comment.

Howdy all,

Just returned from the deep south where I was operating B-camera on a corporate video/commercial for Yamaha Rhinos. It's same group I went to Wyoming with in December to shoot Yamaha snowmobiles (see a pattern here?)

Anyway, A- cam was the tried and true Panasonic Varicam, and B-cam was the VERY new Panasonic HVX-200. Overall, I really like this camera. The images it produces are great, and some of the new features you gain as a result of using solid state media are fantastic.

Sadly, the Japanese engineers stuck in a little white room designing these things overlooked some key features...as always. I was able to work around them. And I have gone through and listed my likes and dislikes about the camera below.

My biggest complaint remains to be the lack of being able to name the P2 cards. This causes a huge organization issue. I had to work around it by having the producer buy an external drive, and transfer the footage via the P2 card directly to the external drive. I refused to use the P2 Store Hard Drive. To use the P2 Store HD means dumping all the contents of the card which are just individual clips (everytime you start and stop the camera) and when you connect it to your mac it dumps a million and one UNNAMED icons on your desktop (the individual clips.) It's annoying as hell, and VERY unorganized.

So, I would create named folder with Roll numbers, and drop the "CONTENTS" folders into the named folders. These will still import right into FCP. Sadly, the production is editing on Windows running Avid. That caused its own headaches in prep, and who knows about post.

Anyway, as much I love this camera. Until, Panasonic addresses at least the card naming issue I would not buy the camera. Rent it, yes.

Onto the list:


Gripes about the HVX-200
- Not able to give the P2 cards individual names in the camera (such as Roll 1, 2, 3, etc.)


- P2 Store downloads the cards as a big load of unnamed clips because not being able to name the cards to keep them organized.


- Can’t openly select which whether slot 1 or 2 is being used without a little trickery.


- The Menu/VTR buttons are stiff and unresponsive to the touch. Much better then than the “joystick” on the DVX, but a little more “button” feel would be nice.


- P2 Store is USB 2.0 only, no firewire.


- Auto-Focus is SLOOOW


- No button lock or hold for the external buttons. Bad because the external buttons are easily bumped on accident on this camera design. For me, it was ALWAYS the focus assist button getting pushed.


- The door on the P2 Store has a nice rubber gasket, but the P2 slots on the actual camera do not. It’s just a door.


- The Auto-Focus switch for Automatic and Manual gets flicked too easily. It’s like it doesn’t lock firmly in place when switched.


- 4 dead (black) pixels showed up in my LCD over the course of 8 days. Only one dead pixel was able to be massaged back to life.



Pros about the HVX

- When shooting with P2 you get instant recording. No waiting for heads to spool up.


- Solid state media recording. No drop outs, and great for run and gun shooting. Especially, if the camera is going to be jostled around a lot.


- Appears to have GREAT high end latitude for a camera with 1/3” chips.


- Great body design, size, and weight.


- Instant playback of recorded footage by clip.


- True 23.97fps shooting. Takes up less P2 space (when shooting 720p), and allows for real-time playback when shooting off speeds.


- P2 cards slide right in to the PCMCIA slot in a Powerbook, and with a patch downloaded from Panasonic you can import right into Final Cut Pro 5.

- Seemless TimeCode, and seemless recording when making the switch from one card slot to the next.

 

[The Sarlacc]

117 views and NO comments...wow, tough crowd

 

[soarprod]

Well, you can simply switch your list of clips to date modified - it will organize them how you recorded them. Plus, you can see the timecode stamp in FCP. List on a log sheet which card used how much of the timecode.

When you format the cards using the p2 software for windows (my laptop) it asks you if you want to name the p2 card. Also, when I copied the footage to my lap, I dropped them into the correct roll numbered folder. -> I know you were using a p2 store tho.

I agree on the menu buttons and the P2 card door.

I dont really have a problem with the buttons and switches - never really bothered my on the DVX either.

One quick way to force the slot change is pull one of the cards and it will auto-swap.

I wish I had 8gb cards over 4gb

 

[The Sarlacc]

Well, you can simply switch your list of clips to date modified - it will organize them how you recorded them. Plus, you can see the timecode stamp in FCP. List on a log sheet which card used how much of the timecode.

When you format the cards using the p2 software for windows (my laptop) it asks you if you want to name the p2 card. Also, when I copied the footage to my lap, I dropped them into the correct roll numbered folder. -> I know you were using a p2 store tho.

I agree on the menu buttons and the P2 card door.

I dont really have a problem with the buttons and switches - never really bothered my on the DVX either.

One quick way to force the slot change is pull one of the cards and it will auto-swap.

I wish I had 8gb cards over 4gb

I was NOT using the P2 Store. I was using my laptop and doing what you were doing. Creating roll numbered folders.

BUT, I was in the field on a run and gun show (to an extent.)
Working in rough terrain, and had my setup running in the back of a Ford Expedition running off a power inverter. It was not always convenient to get back to the card to dump to laptop, and sometimes impossible since the Expeditions couldn't always go where our ATV vehicles took us to shoot. Luckily, since I was B camera, I never had to roll all the time, and therefore never ran of P2 cards (had 6 4gb cards.)

I never had an issue bumping buttons on a DVX...HVX I do.

I learned how to trick the camera into selecting which card I wanted to use, that a quick and easy fix. Not even a big deal.

I also kept a log book with me. No camera reports, no camera log. And the last thing I want to do (especially when working so fast is make notes of TC. I don't think any AC or Op should ever have to make note of that, unless something VERY specific is being done.

Problem here is, a lot of you guys shooting with the HVX also edit your own footage.

I shot this footage, and it is being blindly delivered to the editor with my log book.

Because I created numbered roll folders to match my log book, I just saved him a lot of time and frustration.

But, that is annoyance for me to have to take the time to do all that on location. Where Panasonic could just simply make it a feature of the camera/card. ANS of the P2 Store. and then boom. I'm in the field. The camera knows I'm shooting on Roll 1, and when I dump it to the P 2 Store, its saved in one big folder called Roll 1. Easy.

Its not so big a deal, to whip out the laptop and HD, and set all this up when you are in a controlled environment like a stage...but out in the field its a total annoyance.

 

[The Sarlacc]

Also, let me clarify...When I say name the card. I mean when you put the card into the HVX you should able to call it, say, ROLL 1. And then, when you put the card in to a laptop or a the P 2 Store there should only be one folder on the card called ROLL 1 will all the necessary sub-folders contained within.

 

[soarprod]

I agree on the Roll1 deal - firmware upgrade!!!

 

[dogmeat]

Did you know you can name the card before recording to it if you are downloading to a laptop? I agree with the bumping of the focus assist, I did that way to many times

 

[The Sarlacc]

Did you know you can name the card before recording to it if you are downloading to a laptop? I agree with the bumping of the focus assist, I did that way to many times

Yes, but read my posts. Naming the card in the laptop doesnt do anything, other then give the card a name.

Big deal, I can do that by writing on white area with a sharpie (which easily comes off wtih dry erase marker.)

If I name the card in the computer, shoot on it, and put it in the P 2 Store, its still a giant mess of unnamed clips.

Naming the card on your laptop does nothing. Did you know you can give it a new icon, too (on mac at least.) But who cares? What good does that do? Nothing.

 

[Barry_Green]

My biggest complaint remains to be the lack of being able to name the P2 cards.

Thanks for the report! I can hopefully clear up a few things here...

First, you can name the cards when you format them in the P2 Viewer program. But secondly, you can assign custom names to the clips too. If you use the metadata on the SD card you can totally ease your editor's workflow.

There are dozens of fields that you can set in the metadata, and then have the camera automatically attach that metadata to the clips at the moment they're recorded. If you're willing to take the effort, you can document your clips very thoroughly.

For example, let's say you have three cards. You could color-code them as red, white, and blue, or mark 'em with a dry-erase marker for A, B, and C, or whatever -- let's stick with red, white, blue. You could then load three different metadata files on the SD card (named Red, White, and Blue obviously). When you swap a card, you'd go into the P2 menu and tell it to load the metadata associated with that card; doing so means that every clip you shoot from that point forward will have custom metadata names assigned in their XML files. You can easily view & sort your footage based on that.

It adds a little responsibility on your shoulders; you want to make sure you don't goof up and load the wrong file or forget to load the file when you change cards, but if you are diligent you can really organize your footage.

Anyway, as much I love this camera. Until, Panasonic addresses at least the card naming issue I would not buy the camera. Rent it, yes.

Well, feel free to buy it then, because like I just illustrated above, you can name the cards (in the P2 Viewer) and you can assign a roll name to the clips on the cards actually in their individual XML files, automatically. Hopefully those will address your concerns!

- Can’t openly select which whether slot 1 or 2 is being used without a little trickery.

As you discovered, this is no trickery at all. Just assign "SLOT SEL" to one of the user buttons. Changing slots is a one-button press.

]- The Menu/VTR buttons are stiff and unresponsive to the touch. Much better then than the “joystick” on the DVX, but a little more “button” feel would be nice.

On the prerelease versions the buttons were very stiff, but on mine they're buttery smooth. Perhaps you just need to break it in more?

- Auto-Focus is SLOOOW

This depends on what your shooting mode is. If you're shooting 60fps, autofocus is quick and handy. If you're shooting 24fps, it's marginal at best. That's not the camera's fault, it's a direct result of shooting at a slower frame rate. At least the HVX gives you the option; on the original DVX they disabled autofocus when in 24p mode because it was so slow, and people clamored for it so they enabled it in the DVX100A. There is a simple and obvious relationship here: the slower your frame rate, the worse autofocus will perform.

- No button lock or hold for the external buttons. Bad because the external buttons are easily bumped on accident on this camera design. For me, it was ALWAYS the focus assist button getting pushed.

Interesting. I can see that happening. A button lock would have been nice. I haven't had it happen in normal use, but I can see how it would.

- 4 dead (black) pixels showed up in my LCD over the course of 8 days. Only one dead pixel was able to be massaged back to life.

Don't know what to say about that... I've had mine for three months, and been using various HVXs for five, and haven't seen a single dead pixel on the LCD, the viewfinder, or on the footage yet. I think your experience is quite unique.

- When shooting with P2 you get instant recording. No waiting for heads to spool up.

Yes, and not only that, but with the pre-rec function, you get faster-than-instant recording, you actually get backward-in-time recording because it'll be recording *before* you press the record button! :thumbsup:

- Appears to have GREAT high end latitude for a camera with 1/3” chips.

Totally agreed; I was surprised at how well it held all detail under grueling conditions shooting the pirate ship explosions on the Sirens of T.I. show. Amazing range for a 1/3" camera!

- Instant playback of recorded footage by clip.

We use this feature every single day, every shoot. It's so unbelievably convenient to match headshot size or lighting levels or to check continuity...

Again, thanks for the report, and I hope that my clarifications have made some of your concerns less of a concern now, and welcome to the forum!

 

[The Sarlacc]

Thanks for the report! I can hopefully clear up a few things here...

First, you can name the cards when you format them in the P2 Viewer program. But secondly, you can assign custom names to the clips too. If you use the metadata on the SD card you can totally ease your editor's workflow.

There are dozens of fields that you can set in the metadata, and then have the camera automatically attach that metadata to the clips at the moment they're recorded. If you're willing to take the effort, you can document your clips very thoroughly.

For example, let's say you have three cards. You could color-code them as red, white, and blue, or mark 'em with a dry-erase marker for A, B, and C, or whatever -- let's stick with red, white, blue. You could then load three different metadata files on the SD card (named Red, White, and Blue obviously). When you swap a card, you'd go into the P2 menu and tell it to load the metadata associated with that card; doing so means that every clip you shoot from that point forward will have custom metadata names assigned in their XML files. You can easily view & sort your footage based on that.

It adds a little responsibility on your shoulders; you want to make sure you don't goof up and load the wrong file or forget to load the file when you change cards, but if you are diligent you can really organize your footage.

I'll look into it, but seriously that is a pain is the keester. Its just ANOTHER piece of software I have to download to take up HD space on my laptop...And then I have to make sure everything is setup prior. What if I am shooting a lowbudget feature and I end up with like 20 "Rolls" Do I have to make sure I have 20 metadata files setup to read over 4 cards?

The method just does not seem production savvy to me.

Well, feel free to buy it then, because like I just illustrated above, you can name the cards (in the P2 Viewer) and you can assign a roll name to the clips on the cards actually in their individual XML files, automatically. Hopefully those will address your concerns!

As you discovered, this is no trickery at all. Just assign "SLOT SEL" to one of the user buttons. Changing slots is a one-button press.

I was curious if this was a button I overlooked.

On the prerelease versions the buttons were very stiff, but on mine they're buttery smooth. Perhaps you just need to break it in more?


This depends on what your shooting mode is. If you're shooting 60fps, autofocus is quick and handy. If you're shooting 24fps, it's marginal at best. That's not the camera's fault, it's a direct result of shooting at a slower frame rate. At least the HVX gives you the option; on the original DVX they disabled autofocus when in 24p mode because it was so slow, and people clamored for it so they enabled it in the DVX100A. There is a simple and obvious relationship here: the slower your frame rate, the worse autofocus will perform.

This I read from you in another thread, makes sense. Still sucks but understandable.

Interesting. I can see that happening. A button lock would have been nice. I haven't had it happen in normal use, but I can see how it would.

Still say it needs one.

Don't know what to say about that... I've had mine for three months, and been using various HVXs for five, and haven't seen a single dead pixel on the LCD, the viewfinder, or on the footage yet. I think your experience is quite unique.

I dont know that I would call my experience unique...maybe because I had so many dead pixels. But I don't even know how many DVX's I have shot with, or teched at a rental house, and 95% of their LCDs had at least one dead/red pixel somewhere on the screen.

Yes, and not only that, but with the pre-rec function, you get faster-than-instant recording, you actually get backward-in-time recording because it'll be recording *before* you press the record button! :thumbsup:

yeah a carry over from tape cameras...never used it.

Totally agreed; I was surprised at how well it held all detail under grueling conditions shooting the pirate ship explosions on the Sirens of T.I. show. Amazing range for a 1/3" camera!



We use this feature every single day, every shoot. It's so unbelievably convenient to match headshot size or lighting levels or to check continuity...

Again, thanks for the report, and I hope that my clarifications have made some of your concerns less of a concern now, and welcome to the forum!

I'll have to check out that whole metadata thing...but it all seems over-engineered and requires too many steps. When I am shooting..or ACing for that matter, the last thing I want to have to think about or deal with is "did I set up the SD card right for the P2 cards currently in the camera???"

I think the way I described what I want, about naming the card makes one big folder with said name...is simple, quick, and easy. And it far more geared towards production work.

The idea behind the metadata off an SD, the way you describe sounds very good and everything...but its the extra step that can be avoided if they just make the right changes. I believe in work smarter, not harder.

Thank Barry, as always you provide very insightful information.

 

[Joe Kocsis]

Thanks for the report! I can hopefully clear up a few things here...

First, you can name the cards when you format them in the P2 Viewer program. But secondly, you can assign custom names to the clips too. If you use the metadata on the SD card you can totally ease your editor's workflow.

So I'm a little confused here.. Are we talking about setting data on the P2 card, or the SD card that's used for the scene files? Because it seems that reading my manual panasonic may be referring to the P2 as an SD card since isn't that what's insdie the p2? Also after going to download the P2 view, I see and SD formatter? Guessing this is just so you can prep a SD card prior to inserting and formatting in the HVX?

I would have thought that Metadata upload, save-to SD, was writing to the SD card, but it appears it writes the data to the P2 card? As it asks for the drive to write to.. Ok I'm confused..

 

[Barry_Green]

Here's the deal -- the camera always attaches metadata to the clips on the P2 card. Some of that metadata is generated by the camera itself (such as clip creation date, and the serial # of the camera that made the clip, etc) and some of that metadata can be specified by the user.

How do you specify the metadata? By loading it onto an SD card, and then putting that SD card in the HVX's SD slot, and loading the metadata file from the SD card into the camera's memory. If you do that, then you can control all sorts of parameters that get written to the P2 card when each clip is generated, such as scene name, take #, location, cinematographer, news reporter, news story subject, all sorts of stuff.

It means more management work for you to keep the data updated, but if you go through the effort to do so, then your clips will be much more organized. You can also go in after the fact, after the clips are shot, and annotate all these fields too; your choice.

 

[The Sarlacc]

Here's the deal -- the camera always attaches metadata to the clips on the P2 card. Some of that metadata is generated by the camera itself (such as clip creation date, and the serial # of the camera that made the clip, etc) and some of that metadata can be specified by the user.

How do you specify the metadata? By loading it onto an SD card, and then putting that SD card in the HVX's SD slot, and loading the metadata file from the SD card into the camera's memory. If you do that, then you can control all sorts of parameters that get written to the P2 card when each clip is generated, such as scene name, take #, location, cinematographer, news reporter, news story subject, all sorts of stuff.

It means more management work for you to keep the data updated, but if you go through the effort to do so, then your clips will be much more organized. You can also go in after the fact, after the clips are shot, and annotate all these fields too; your choice.

And this is well and great, but I still think they should have basic layout in a fashion like I have described.

The whole use your SD card for metadata is bascially panasonic engineers sitting there saying "what else can we do with the car slot?"

This starts putting repsonsibilties and pressures on cameramen/ACs to keep with info they shouldnt even have to think about dealing with in the first place.

Make a simple system like my idea, and then add all the wonderful extra goo, like metadata, for those who want AND have time for all the nitty gritty stuff.

The number one killer on set is waiting around and wasting time. I hate hearing the words "waiting on camera" and avoid it at all costs. And this whole set up the SD card with metadata thing is just another thing to slow you down. Or when you are in a situation like I was in the backwoods of nowhere. I don't want to be dickering around wtih P2 cards AND SD cards, and setting up and chaging metadata, and making sure they match, etc etc etc. Its an extra step that doesnt need to be taken. A nice luxury ifyo have the time and use for it...but not needed in the long run.

HD/Digital can be the easiest, simplest thing in the world. Or it can be the biggest, over-complicated annoyance ever.

This is pure over-complicated annoyance in an other simple and easy to use camera.

Keep it simple Panasonic.

 

[Joe Kocsis]

Ok.. The way I've figured out how to load the metadata file is view the MCR mode? So in order for metadata to be applied to clips, I need to go to MCR mode load metadata, and then back to camera mode, and shoot?? Please correct me if I'm wrong here, because this process a bit counterintunitive.. It also talks about having it record simultaneously to the P2 while loading data to the unit?!?