Slider that doesn't sag...or a solution

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pulpwoody

New member
I'm looking for advice on a slider that doesn't bow/sag at the end of the slide range.
Currently, my camera rig is 14 pounds with cam, lens and tripod head. I like to put this entire rig on top of the slider and mount the slider to the sticks. I have yet to find a slider that doesn't sag at the end of the slide range. The Came-Tv slider support arms won't work because I have the Sachtler Flowtech legs, which are large and rectangular, not circular.
I've tried:
Zeapon micro, micro 2
Edelkrone short v5
Syrp magic carpet short...Pro and regular
All of them sag, except maybe the Magic Carpet Pro, but it was too heavy for me.
Thanks all.
 
is it a saggy slider or a twisting head.

personally I prefer 2 sets of sticks

but Ive used it twice on very professional jobs is a 30 or 40 in slider (ronford) with sticks in the middle and mono pods at the ends .

it works fo.. well we had ocon head alexa lf and every accessory going.

I built my double mono podder recently as it will go in small spaces.

also the procedure of lvelling and the slipping the pods down is quite efficient.

overall my slider is similar to a dana this is just the short build I have the 2m build too

https://www.instagram.com/p/CYjawkHlgWS/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
 
My “go-to” slider is my 4ft MYT Works Large(4’ is the longest that would fit in a gun case). By design, it can’t sag.

https://www.mytworks.com/camera-slid...-9d172d12-caf9
90A9FA3F-4565-4039-8288-7724364CC43B.png - Click image for larger version Name: 90A9FA3F-4565-4039-8288-7724364CC43B.png Views: 0 Size: 32.7 KB ID: 5686829

I’m actually on my second one. After many years with the first one, I broke it(actually the carriage) doing something stupid and the repair was not going to make sense financially vs. buying a new one. So I looked around for several weeks and just couldn’t find anything in that class that I liked better, so I bought another one. Fortunately, they gave me a trade-in discount for my old one one, so it took some of the sting out.

I know the Dana Dolly is kind of the standard and everyone owns one(and I’ve shot on them enough…), but I’ve never been a fan. Always seemed too fiddly to me and my dislike was just reinforced the past two days on a shoot with a friend. But that’s just my opinion and preference. YMMV.
 
Run&Gun said:
I know the Dana Dolly is kind of the standard and everyone owns one(and I’ve shot on them enough…), but I’ve never been a fan. Always seemed too fiddly to me and my dislike was just reinforced the past two days on a shoot with a friend. But that’s just my opinion and preference. YMMV.
Click to expand...

Care to elaborate? I've found my Dana Dolly to be rock solid and very fast and easy to set up. What are your complaints?
 
RnG
while the myt might be solid if it’s just centre mounted especially on a ball it will probably still flop.. Hense m the mono pods for four footers?
 
Doug Jensen said:
Care to elaborate? I've found my Dana Dolly to be rock solid and very fast and easy to set up. What are your complaints?
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, I'm not beating up on the DD and actually have a similar, but larger system, also(Cam Tram). And there are things that the DD can do, that the MYT Works can't, like work on curved track and on infinite length track, whereas the MYT Works sliders are fixed length.

That being said, for a lot of the slider situations that I find myself in, I prefer the one-piece design of the MYT works. To me, it's much easier to move around and deploy. You don't have to worry about taking the carriage off the track or securing it while you are moving it. And several years ago, they incorporated very strong magnets into both sides of the carriage and interior end stops, so that you don't "bottom out" at the ends of your moves, if you take it to the end of the track. It's one of those nice little features that is more useful than you thought it would be, Another bonus of the design, if you're in an environment and it's not completely level, you can still level the head, because the carriage/hi-hat is an actual bowl(if you are using that instead of a mitchell or flat base). The DD design, while the top half insert is a bowl to receive the head, the bottom is flat, so there is no(or very, very little) way to really compensate if the head needs to be leveled if the slider isn't perfectly level. Of course the argument would be "level the slider/rails perfectly", but in some situations, it's not always possible.

I'm not sure I answered your question exactly like you wanted...
 
morgan_moore said:
RnG
while the myt might be solid if it’s just centre mounted especially on a ball it will probably still flop.. Hense m the mono pods for four footers?
Click to expand...

I was interpreting his comment as an actual track sag situation. Maybe I read it too fast. But yes, even with what amounts to an almost "un-bendable" track design, the entire rig could lean or "flop" to one side or the other if it's only supported in the center. But I've never used a slider like that. It's always supported on both sides or on the ground.
 
Run&Gun said:
I was interpreting his comment as an actual track sag situation. Maybe I read it too fast. But yes, even with what amounts to an almost "un-bendable" track design, the entire rig could lean or "flop" to one side or the other if it's only supported in the center. But I've never used a slider like that. It's always supported on both sides or on the ground.
Click to expand...

Now I feel the need for an etensive post!

Ill summarize my understanding..

Ronford and MYT sliders are basically rigid heavy expensive and not usually longer than 40in.

But the whole device can move (flop) when mounted to one tripod centrally especially if that tripod has 100mm or smaller bowl.

This setup can be stopped flopping by use of 'monopods' or apple boxes to support the ends and a mitchell head.

Here is ronford/monopods (actually sitting on my trailer) https://www.instagram.com/p/CVclyoAq..._web_copy_link

Cheap sliders and long scaffoding runs/dana rigging can 'sag' especially when mounted between two light stands.

Sagging is actual flex in the pipes, typically when the carriage is in the middle.

Here is my 'dana' built with two tripods.. at 2.4m it will 'sag' https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...G?format=1500w

One can stop this sagging by use of shorter pipe or a central support.. both of which I have but dont have a photo of.

We have 'flop' and 'sag'

Use of a bowl or mitchell head is debatable.. (on tripods at the end or one in the middle)
-a bowl can slip, but can also be simply levelled
-mitchell head is less simple to level but very stable

Other consideration is the length of the carriage.. myt and ronford are shorter carriages than a dana so with a 40in ronford slider you might get a 32 in slide, but with 40in of dana you will only get a 28in slide.

RnG makes note of the carriage being attached to the track.

This is debate able.. ill expand.

If you look at my instagram the head was often left by the A/C on the track leaving the grip (me) to carry head and track setup.
ronford sticks
ronfod 40in slider
2 monopods or x appleboxes and a couple of shot bags
2075? (I dont know the model) ocon head.

Debatably this was not an appropriate load for one person.

With a carriage that removes from the track it is possible to break the load thus..
1/st 2ac carries camera head and carriage

grip moves slider and sticks and mono pods and any apple boxes wedges and shot bags.. quite enough thanks

also leaving the head in place while moving the rig can cause the rig to flip with a heavy head

In the UK my understanding is that the head is part of the camera department, not grip department whose job is to provide a platform for the head.

In reality removing a head from the carriage is slow so it might not work like that.

Carrying a 40in ronford slider ronford sticks and monopods is just doable with a single person and simplicity personified with 2 persons.. its still odd to carry that rig with two people with the heavy head in place as it wants to flip. Some would not consider that safe.

Making short moves of the whole rig, camera in place with multiple people is possible but could be problematic if the grip then had to level the system with the camera in place, especially a non bowl system. Some would not consider that safe.

In summary.

There are many slider systems. Dana is good, 'slider blocks' like MYTt/Ronford/Solid Grip Systems/any over $1500 are good.
Cheap sh_it is just that. Cheap sh_t.

supporting the slider is an art..can be done with 1-2 tripods, two combo stands or 1 tripod and end supports,, monopods or apple boxes, each setup has pros and cons

Easy removal of the carriage, can be useful or not

If the load needs splitting and carrying agreement of how this is going to happen will stop dangerous loads for specific crew members

Each system has pros and cons at point of purchase and on the day and making the right choice is one of the elements that makes one experienced in the (wider) camera department.

A good DOP will call for the right combo.. for example on INT they may go for a smaller build whereas on EXTs they may use a set that is simpler to level.

A seperate chat is 'should I be using track?' (which doesnt sag or flop because it is on the ground!)
 
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Not mentionend is asymetric setting where the slider might look over a balcony or the camera might float over a table or just need the camera to float really close to a wall prop actor or doorway.

The rididity and smaller and attached carriage of a ronford/myt will aid such setups.

Ronford and the like can be used underslung unlike most Danas (not mine of course), which will deliver low shots or the lens sweeping over tables and the like.

==

In terms of brand 'Solid grip systems' are a little unusual in that the can be built long unlike ronford or suchlike. They look for the attributes of both systems.. for $5k
 
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Run&Gun said:
if you're in an environment and it's not completely level, you can still level the head, because the carriage/hi-hat is an actual bowl(if you are using that instead of a mitchell or flat base). The DD design, while the top half insert is a bowl to receive the head, the bottom is flat, so there is no(or very, very little) way to really compensate if the head needs to be leveled if the slider isn't perfectly level.
Click to expand...

I have to admit that my Dana has mostly been used on smooth surfaces, but for the times when I have used it on uneven terrain I don't recall having any trouble balancing either of my 100mm OConnor heads on the bowl. Really not much different than balancing on a tripod bowl.

I use Avenger combo stands. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/611470-REG/Avenger_A1010CS_A1010CS_Ultra_Low_Boy.html
Rock solid, portable, easily adjustable, and has one riser leg for uneven surfaces.
 
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Doug Jensen said:
What are your pipes made from? Mine are made from thick aluminum and there is no sag, at least none that could be seen without some very fine measuring.
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My 'dana' track is aluminium scaffold tube (uk 48mm diameter)

I guess sag might be a poor term.. they tend to 'fail' on having a small resonance .. Im talkig at the 100mm lens zone there can be some bounce.

This is often 'cured' by bridging with apple boxes.

polished steel tube might be an option?

RIgging on the double 100mm bowl is potentially (while easier to level) more flexible than a mitchell or other flat head tripod or combo stands.

Having worked on a certain job where I only had track, I was stumped on som EXT locations (I could not level it) so my slider is specifically designed to be flexible in terms of setting up on beaches/hills rocky places - maybe taking that over ulitimate ridgidity.. which is a dolly with a fat guy sitting on it and easy to build on a smooth surface.
 
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