MalcolmOng
New member
Great thread so far! I'd really love to see some examples of night lighting - where it looks dark...yet lit if you know what i mean. Like it's unmistakably night, and it doesn't look lit, despite you being able to see clearly
Lighting
- Thread starter jansik
- Start date
Jeff Anderson
Custom Title!
Looks good Papa - I see the softbox behind for a backlight, the chinaball for fill ( I assume the one behind the camera is just extra? ), the key with diffusion, and two stands that extend out of frame - anything coming from those two stands? Thanks for sharing!
PaPa
New member
the camera is in it's second position, but the first china ball does infact light the duck that is in the foreground.
those two stands i used to rig the microphone to hang above me lol ( SOLO )
and then i had one more of the ccool white fluorescents lighting the background slightly, where the chair is against the curtain.
those two stands i used to rig the microphone to hang above me lol ( SOLO )
and then i had one more of the ccool white fluorescents lighting the background slightly, where the chair is against the curtain.
Dougyfresh13
New member
where do you guys get your china balls. is that something that i would be able to get at home depot or something.
Spartacus
New member
I bookmarked this:
http://www.eparasols.com/36whnyla.html
Never bought there though, cause I´m not from the states...
Andrew Brinkhaus
New member
To the right of the talent I shot a 6K Arrisun HMI through an 8'X8' silk, about 40 or so feet away. This raked the background as well.
Left of talent, I added a 2K gelled with 1/2 CTO off a pancake to simulate fill from the fire. This light was wired to a flickermaster as well.
Inside the window is a 1K gelled with 1/4 straw, through a sheet of Opel diffusion.
Above the talent here is a 500W China, 36" I believe. It was gelled with a 1/2 CTO and 1/2 Straw.
In front of him, to provide the soft warmth of a candle which is previously established, is a 200W 16" China on a flickermaster to simulate the subtle flickering of the candles.
For his subtle moonlight motivated backlight is a fatboy Kino with daylight tubes, and a 1/4 + Green.
For a full production breakdown with lots more stills, check out this thread.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=115765
ProfessorU
New member
I bought my chinaballs and cables from Asian Ideas, they go from 4" up to 42", good price, super fast shipping, no complaints. The LANTERNS I bought are only rated for a 60W bulb because of the heat, but the sockets and cables they shipped me run up to 300W. So far I've been using CFLs anyway, but I would guess you could run 300W for a short time in the bigger lanterns. I have been known to hang the sockets without a lantern from time to time, as well. It's a nice thing to have in your kit.
They make some specialty ones, as well. I would consider buying a set of special color lanterns for a unique project or music video.
What do you guys use to mount chinaballs? Is there an easy way to get them to stick to the ceiling or do you just use c-stands?
They make some specialty ones, as well. I would consider buying a set of special color lanterns for a unique project or music video.
What do you guys use to mount chinaballs? Is there an easy way to get them to stick to the ceiling or do you just use c-stands?
Andrew Brinkhaus
New member
Well the lighting and grip for this film was all rented, so I don't know exactly where they get their electric.
However, I have been able to find ceramic sockets at Home Depot, which can support up to 200W. As for wiring, I'm sure you can find a similar low gauge wire at HD, just make sure it's grounded. I also have gotten 200W bulbs at HD, simple tungsten pure white globes.
However, I have been able to find ceramic sockets at Home Depot, which can support up to 200W. As for wiring, I'm sure you can find a similar low gauge wire at HD, just make sure it's grounded. I also have gotten 200W bulbs at HD, simple tungsten pure white globes.
TimurCivan
Director of Photography
ive had up to 1000W in a 42" china ball. its safe so long as youre vigilant and the lamps dont touch the paper.....
Andrew Brinkhaus
New member
Yep.
PaPa
New member
i guess its just cause my cable is rated for 75 watts max, and i am not sure how your sticking higher wattages in them without them breaking? Should i attempt any higher wattages?
MalcolmOng
New member
Great images all - papa your grab looked great, and Andrew - wow. Just...wow. Curiously though, two questions are egging at me - firstly, for your shot of the night exterior with the guy warming himself by the fire, why'd you have to place your softsun so far back? Could you accomplish the same thing by placing the lighting closer and using a smaller wattage? (assuming the same framing in the grab is used) My guess is that you placed it so face back simply as a matter of necessity since you had a much wider shot as well?
Also, regarding the softness of light, i read somewhere that it depends on how big the source is compared to the talent. Going on that, if say you flagged a chinaball, that would probably result in a smaller effective source, and would that yield a harsher light?
Thanks all,
Malcolm
Also, regarding the softness of light, i read somewhere that it depends on how big the source is compared to the talent. Going on that, if say you flagged a chinaball, that would probably result in a smaller effective source, and would that yield a harsher light?
Thanks all,
Malcolm
Andrew Brinkhaus
New member
Good questions Malcom. Basically the idea in placing a light further away is the way it falls off. A light much closer to the subject, though diffused, will still have a much sharper falloff, and more spotted throw. When a light is further away, those fc's of light have time to spread out, and thin out, which results in a more distilled, realistic light. Think of how far away the moon is...What would its light look like if it was 100,000 miles closer to earth?
In regards to your question about flagging a chinaball, usually Chinas are used for ambient fill, or for as a key or fill. The great thing about Chinas, is that they have a very small throw so they can be placed close to the subject, without really affecting the surrounding lighting. (obviously that varies between subject distance, and the wattage of the china.)
When it comes to controlling, like any soft source, this can be difficult. And yes, the more you flag off the light, the less effective area of light will hit the subject. This is usually what is desired, but you have to make sure you start with a large enough source, to lose some of it in the "shaping" process. How hard or soft the shadow will be varies by the distance the flag or controlling device is placed in relation to the light. Very far away, close to subject will yeild a more defined shadow, and closer to the lamp/source will create a softer diffused shadow.
In regards to your question about flagging a chinaball, usually Chinas are used for ambient fill, or for as a key or fill. The great thing about Chinas, is that they have a very small throw so they can be placed close to the subject, without really affecting the surrounding lighting. (obviously that varies between subject distance, and the wattage of the china.)
When it comes to controlling, like any soft source, this can be difficult. And yes, the more you flag off the light, the less effective area of light will hit the subject. This is usually what is desired, but you have to make sure you start with a large enough source, to lose some of it in the "shaping" process. How hard or soft the shadow will be varies by the distance the flag or controlling device is placed in relation to the light. Very far away, close to subject will yeild a more defined shadow, and closer to the lamp/source will create a softer diffused shadow.
ProfessorU
New member
Re: sockets and cables
Almost any lamp cable in the US is going to be rated for 12 Amps or more, at 110V that's about 1300W. You're going to exceed the socket's ability to handle heat well before you exceed the cable's ability to carry current.
Re: soft sources and flags
Imagine a point on the surface of your subject. The softness of the light is relative to the degrees at which the source is visible from that point. Flagging the source or changing the distance can change how hard or soft the source appears. Flag your source or move it away (relative to the subject) and the light will appear harder.
Timur... what lamp and socket do you use for 1000W in a chinaball?
Almost any lamp cable in the US is going to be rated for 12 Amps or more, at 110V that's about 1300W. You're going to exceed the socket's ability to handle heat well before you exceed the cable's ability to carry current.
Re: soft sources and flags
Imagine a point on the surface of your subject. The softness of the light is relative to the degrees at which the source is visible from that point. Flagging the source or changing the distance can change how hard or soft the source appears. Flag your source or move it away (relative to the subject) and the light will appear harder.
Timur... what lamp and socket do you use for 1000W in a chinaball?
Wilson
New member
Now PaPA's post is the most helpful of all. It is nice to see the framed shot, and then all the lighting instruments. I think I'll start doing more of that during my shoots!
Here is a still that I Gaffed a while ago:
12k through a 1/4 silk thru the back window (hot edge)
4k bounced into a mirror and into widow camera left to key
return bounce card on floor for backround and another for fill on her face.
And a mess of net and cutters here and there.
Must have had something outside as well...maybe a few 1200 pars for greenery.
As for China Balls..I've used 300 watt bulbs quite often in china balls. If you find an electrical supply store you can find these, and even in some big box stores.
An old trick is to wire two ceramic fixtures inside the same ball, both with their own cords, labeled so that you can put a 100watt and a 300 watt bulb in there, or even a daylight and a tungsten bulb.
You can use bailing wire to make a HARP. A HARP is simply the wire harness that comes with the balls, with a long piece of 1/4 threaded tubing (like the stuff you buy when installing a fixture in your house only longer) attached to your ceramic fixtures with a threaded adapter. The reason for the tubing is that it allows for something to connect the wire harness to AND it keeps the bulbs in one place as to not touch the side of your paper china ball and burn up your shoot, really ruining your day.
Good Luck - Wilson
Here is a still that I Gaffed a while ago:
12k through a 1/4 silk thru the back window (hot edge)
4k bounced into a mirror and into widow camera left to key
return bounce card on floor for backround and another for fill on her face.
And a mess of net and cutters here and there.
Must have had something outside as well...maybe a few 1200 pars for greenery.
As for China Balls..I've used 300 watt bulbs quite often in china balls. If you find an electrical supply store you can find these, and even in some big box stores.
An old trick is to wire two ceramic fixtures inside the same ball, both with their own cords, labeled so that you can put a 100watt and a 300 watt bulb in there, or even a daylight and a tungsten bulb.
You can use bailing wire to make a HARP. A HARP is simply the wire harness that comes with the balls, with a long piece of 1/4 threaded tubing (like the stuff you buy when installing a fixture in your house only longer) attached to your ceramic fixtures with a threaded adapter. The reason for the tubing is that it allows for something to connect the wire harness to AND it keeps the bulbs in one place as to not touch the side of your paper china ball and burn up your shoot, really ruining your day.
Good Luck - Wilson
Last edited:
Wilson
New member
Now PaPA's post is the most helpful of all. It is nice to see the framed shot, and then all the lighting instruments. I think I'll start doing more of that during my shoots!
Here is a still that I Gaffed a while ago:
12k through a 1/4 silk thru the back window (hot edge)
4k bounced into a mirror and into widow camera left to key
return bounce card on floor for backround and another for fill on her face.
Good Luck - Wilson
Here is a still that I Gaffed a while ago:
12k through a 1/4 silk thru the back window (hot edge)
4k bounced into a mirror and into widow camera left to key
return bounce card on floor for backround and another for fill on her face.
Good Luck - Wilson
TimurCivan
Director of Photography
I have custom made fixtures they can hold 1000 W