HPX250: Zoom lens - question about zooming when in macro focus

T

timbook2

New member
I got my HPX 250 just since 2 hours but I already found a MAJOR FAIL ISSUE!
I am not new to panny, my HVX201 is right here to compare, so 250 owners who complain please test this, as I believe its major design flaw:

set the 250 to manual
in SW mode= MF assist OFF ( wont make a difference anyway)
Display setup= Zoom/Focus set it to mm/m

Zoom all the way in to 86 and focus onto something that allows you to use the closest focus in full zoom = 76cm or .76m
Now zoom S L O W L Y back out and WATCH...watch the focus numbers.....do they also change? from 76 all the way to 99cm and then back down to 76cm when you reached a zoom level of around 36mm ?

Do the same thing over and over, watch the image how it looses focus and then comes back into focus at 36mm.
Now I never saw panny announce this lens was parfocal because I just assume IT IS! Just like the nice Zeiss lens my HVX has.

I hope we get a response and SOLUTION for this mega issue because this lens has a major problem and I am not the first to talk about it
but I took the minutes to find out exactly what it does.

I just spent a lot of money for a product which doesnt work as expected.

peace over out
 
The same applies the other way around:
Zoom all the way out to 3.9 you can now focus very close up= 0.06m which is 6 cm and you can stick your finger into the matte box and its sharp :) ( great btw)
Now zoom in slowly and watch how the focus starts changing at 21.6 mm = you will see focus goes to 0.07 and from here on upwards till 0.99 meters!
Now that may very well be so if it was declared as a "design" or whatever or if the word parfocal never existed, or other fixed lens cameras from panny before this new lens behaved in any way similar ( which they did not).

So please owners of this new 250 do this test and tell me if what I see is true or if I should change my diet :)
 
This is I think the macro issue that has been discussed… search for hpx250 macro. I think it is defeats le; but if it didn't do what it did, you wouldn't get focus that close in any case.
 
you mean this?:
"This is not a defect. The lens can zoom all the way in (616mm) as close as 3 feet without a close up filter. In this position, the optics are in a macro focus mode. In this situation, the lens cannot hold focus for a few mm’s when zooming out. When the lens is zoomed all the way in (616mm) at 6 feet, the lens can hold focus when zooming out to full wide (28mm). In this position, the optics are not in amacro mode.

The point is, this is not a back focus problem. This is the unique ability of having a 22x wide lens on this great new camera.

Oh, and thanks for your positive comments on the camera. Our engineering team listened to many requests and implemented them on this model. And the 10-bit, full-resolution AVC-Intra 100 video quality and 22x wide zoom lens are amazing for a one-piece, sub $6,000 camera."

Thanks and have a nice day.


Steve Cooperman
Product Manager - P2 HD, POVCAM, Production Displays​
???
ok so the answer is " you get what you pay for" ?
what about a safe zone mode which says dont focus below 99cm and the lens is parfocal?
but what if this problem also happens when you are @ focus ∞ infinite?
I mean macro focus ok....nice to have, thanx panny
no close ups below 1 meter @ full zoom? ok just mention it
but focus is moving all over the place at ALL focus levels ABOVE 1 meter when I zoom.
There must be a "parfocal safe zone" mode please!


 
It's exactly what they say it is. The minimum focus distance is 3 feet and it can't hold it 100% when zooming the full range AT MINIMUM. As Steve says, you can zoom 100% when focused at 6 feet.

There should be no problem whatsoever when focused at infinity, or at any distance past minimum.

So it's not a MEGA FAIL, it's not even a MINOR FAIL or any type of fail. It's a 22x zoom lens that is parfocal throughout its zoom range, *unless* you go into macro mode. It can't hold the macro range throughout the entire zoom.
 
I'm not seeing the issue. If I'm in manual focus, beyond MOD, all I see is a lens that is tracking properly throughout the zoom range. If I put the lens in Auto Focus, then yes, I see the numbers change.

If I am within MOD, I see the MA display reverse out to tell me I'm in Macro and I see the lens not track focus when in most or all of the way on zoom, as I'd expect a 2/3" ENG lens to do.
 
Ok, I will test more in daylight tomorrow and if its behaving parfocally above 1 meter I rest my case and apologize for the ignorance.
 
I just tested it -- it's actually a lot better than I was thinking. You don't have to go to six feet, or anywhere near it, to get parfocal zoom throughout the entire range. I found that at 3.50 feet you can zoom from Z00 to Z99, all the way, with it holding focus throughout.

The macro range is when the "MF" or "AF" letters inverse and go to clear letters on a white background. Macro is the range from 0.20 to 3.30 feet. If you try to do a full-range zoom with the lens in its macro range, it won't be able to hold focus throughout the entire zoom. Step out of the macro range into its normal range (at 3.50 feet) and it will hold throughout the entire zoom.
 
Barry_Green said:
I just tested it -- it's actually a lot better than I was thinking. You don't have to go to six feet, or anywhere near it, to get parfocal zoom throughout the entire range. I found that at 3.50 feet you can zoom from Z00 to Z99, all the way, with it holding focus throughout.

The macro range is when the "MF" or "AF" letters inverse and go to clear letters on a white background. Macro is the range from 0.20 to 3.30 feet. If you try to do a full-range zoom with the lens in its macro range, it won't be able to hold focus throughout the entire zoom. Step out of the macro range into its normal range (at 3.50 feet) and it will hold throughout the entire zoom.
Click to expand...

Great news can we change the title of this thread to something other than "Zoom lens MEGA FAIL"[h=1][/h]
 
Barry_Green said:
I just tested it -- it's actually a lot better than I was thinking. You don't have to go to six feet, or anywhere near it, to get parfocal zoom throughout the entire range. I found that at 3.50 feet you can zoom from Z00 to Z99, all the way, with it holding focus throughout.

The macro range is when the "MF" or "AF" letters inverse and go to clear letters on a white background. Macro is the range from 0.20 to 3.30 feet. If you try to do a full-range zoom with the lens in its macro range, it won't be able to hold focus throughout the entire zoom. Step out of the macro range into its normal range (at 3.50 feet) and it will hold throughout the entire zoom.
Click to expand...

Barry, that's exactly what I tested today, same results on a resolution chart. It was odd how the zoom numbers changed in Auto Focus, especially when going to full wide, but I don't have much experience using AF mode in any camera.

The best part shooting the resolution chart, besides proper focus tracking, is how sharp and CA free the image is. I did all testing wide open and see no softening in the corners, edges, no obvious CA--seems like the lens and CAC file are working well.
 
Okay, now I've got a handle on this, thanks to Adam Wilt who is reviewing the 250 and 160. I noticed that on fast manual zooms that focus wasn't tracking perfectly, but I thought this could be detail circuit delay. Servo zooms look fine. Here's what is going on according to Adam:


"The lenses are computer-tracked varifocals, not true zooms. If you snap-zoom (manually) you can get ahead of the computer, and focus will blur momentarily. Slower zooms, below 2-3 seconds, let the focus keep up. The fastest power zoom is about 3.5 seconds, so it's not an issue with power zooms."

So, Timbook 2 is correct, lens is not parfocal.
 
"If you snap-zoom (manually) you can get ahead of the computer, and focus will blur momentarily."
Click to expand...

The question for me becomes, "how long is momentarily?" While I pretty much never use a snap-zoom in a finished piece, I very often use a snap-zoom in fast-moving documentary situations when I need to steal a close-up or quickly re-frame. If the camera takes more than a second or two to find focus again, this could mean a lost shot.

For those of you who have the 250, how long does it take for the camera to find focus again after a snap-zoom?

If I'm planning to use this camera for a verite documentary, does having a varifocal lens present other issues I should be concerned about?
 
Focus tracking correction is very fast. Well under a second. It is faster than the Lumix 14-140 MFT zoom, more subtle. The focus tracking correction happens in the blink of an eye, but it is noticeable on fast manual zooms, doesn't have to be snap zooms.
 
Where does Adam say this?
"The lenses are computer-tracked varifocals, not true zooms. If you snap-zoom (manually) you can get ahead of the computer, and focus will blur momentarily."

And why doesnt panasonic say this? I know I had this "after buy shock" known to marketing experts, yesterday and so my excitement carried me away when I started this thread but I still think its something we could have been informed about BEFORE we buy.
Its feels a bit iffy really....
 
timbook2 said:
Where does Adam say this?
"The lenses are computer-tracked varifocals, not true zooms. If you snap-zoom (manually) you can get ahead of the computer, and focus will blur momentarily."
Click to expand...

I saw Adam yesterday when he returned P2 cards to me used for his review. We spoke about his findings re: 250 and 160. I then emailed him about the focus tracking issue in manual zoom after my testing, and I quoted his email response. His review will be available at some point on ProVideoCoalition.com.

This is not a big deal to me because if one wants to use a zoom in a shot, the servo will do this with no issues. If one wants to quickly reframe using manual zoom, no problem, because it's a reset, not a move used in a take. The only time focus is lost using the servo is when in macro.
 
I did some zoom tests today with almost ∞ focus= all good! Since I never use any auto mode I just need to get used to the new lens and be careful with macro and zoom. I must say that the macro 6 cm distance is awesome in wide zoom. for the full zoom macro mode one just has to make sure focus is above 1 meter it seems, I will test this some more tomorrow. Unfortunately we have only 5-6 useable hours of light now ....
 
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