What camera solution + workflow for school recording?

[NorBro]

These cameras don't have continuous AF so any expensive adapter for that purpose would be a waste of money. The very few that exist with electronic control should allow for the aperture to be changed with the buttons on the camera (but you'd of course confirm that yourself before any major filming).

I owned the old ones - both models, HD and 4K - at a time when the camera landscape was drastically different and the 4K version had some of the best IQ available (and also 4K/60p) in the world for the money - but the overall size and recording to an external recorder only made them useful for non-run-and-gun productions.

Blackmagic screens are some of the best in the business for monitoring (especially their peaking and general GUI).

The Micro 4K is an old model, while the Plus and Pro are the new ones. The Micro doesn't have a LOG/"Film" dynamic range option (if it matters).

These are all external recording cameras. You will have no back-up, internally.

 

[Mavoz]

These cameras don't have continuous AF so any expensive adapter for that purpose would be a waste of money. The very few that exist with electronic control should allow for the aperture to be changed with the buttons on the camera (but you'd of course confirm that yourself before any major filming).

I owned the old ones - both models, HD and 4K - at a time when the camera landscape was drastically different and the 4K version had some of the best IQ available (and also 4K/60p) in the world for the money - but the overall size and recording to an external recorder only made them useful for non-run-and-gun productions.

Blackmagic screens are some of the best in the business for monitoring (especially their peaking and general GUI).

The Micro 4K is an old model, while the Plus and Pro are the new ones. The Micro doesn't have a LOG/"Film" dynamic range option (if it matters).

These are all external recording cameras. You will have no back-up, internally.

Thanks for this..maybe the Blackmagic Cinema Pro Camera is the one to look at?

It looks like it has internal recording on SD card? Does touch to focus work with EF lenses? I thought I read somewhere this was a way to focus it?

Apparently the Pro has built in ND filters..+ with an adaptor can use XLR cables?

I guess the alternative is to stick with the Canon XA 50...but they are nearly the same cost...

Thanks!

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/techspecs/W-CIN-16

 

[NorBro]

Which camera are you talking about...you're making up your own model, lol.

Any camera with the word "studio" in its name doesn't record internally or have ND filters.

The rest do but only the URSA Mini G1, G2, 12K, Pocket 6K Pro, and both URSA Broadcast models, G1 and G2 (brand new) have ND filters.

Focusing does not work the same as in Japanese cameras; the cameras take 4-5 seconds to find focus, pulsing in and out until they do.

(And not every camera above uses SD cards or uses SD cards for the best formats.)

 

[NorBro]

Sorry, missed that link...yeah, the 6K Pro has ND filters and mini-XLRs. (You can use an adapter if you really need to.)

You can use SD cards for your purpose (1080p).

 

[Peter C.]

I can tell the OP has his heart set on Blackmagic but they aren't well suited for staged events. Blackmagic excel at entry level cinema or studio work. They'd be fine for cinema class or school studio news station.

 

[NorBro]

I can tell the OP has his heart set on Blackmagic but they aren't well suited for staged events. Blackmagic excel at entry level cinema or studio work. They'd be fine for cinema class or school studio news station.

Almost their entire campaign for the new studio cameras consists of staged events. lol

 

[Peter C.]

Almost their entire campaign for the new studio cameras consists of staged events. lol

Those are promotional stills from Blackmagic to sell their cameras. This would be like me like saying he should buy a iPhone then post promotional material from Apple as proof

 

[NorBro]

I can pretty much guarantee you have never used one or even seen any of them in real life.

 

[Peter C.]

I can pretty much guarantee you have never used one or even seen any of them in real life.

Have you used them in the situation he described? Live staged events for high school productions. Do you even film that type of work for a living?

 

[NorBro]

That's one of the main ways people use them. But it doesn't matter if it's for high school or Hollywood.

They are cameras that have features you can use with other equipment to capture any motion pictures you want to.

 

[Mavoz]

Thanks NorBro and PeterC....we've been busy with end of year school reports here etc...but really need to make a decision now on this camera...just need to lock something in before budget is lost!

So what would you buy in our shoes??


Summary Requirements:

To film stage events and mini productions.
Must be easy/quick/simple..


XLR inputs and easy monitoring of audio on camera. (A teacher recently used an existing cam...horrible clipping..blown out audio..wrecked)
Clean HDMI Out
1080P is fine...
Good image...even in slightly dark conditions (Halls etc.)

In this Doc I have thrown in the current choices I've found...

But in short:

Canon XA50 or XA 55 - $2950 to $3500 AUD - 2 x XLR...

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K 1 x XLR - $2500 - can use existing EF batteries + our EF lenses
Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K Pro 2 x XLR ... $3140...existing EF lenses
or maybe one of these Sony Cameras?

Sony PXW-Z150

Sony PXW-Z90V

A Canon better than the XA55?

We can probably go up to around $5000 Australian.


What would you buy?


My concern re: Canon is the picture quality......our current Canon XA30 versus our Canon DSLR is absolutely no comparison in image quality..the DSLR's destroy it in terms of PQ...Canon is soft..muddy..horrible...


Here is comparison doc:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=680807511

Thanks for any final thoughts...

We just want to turn on the camera...point at target..press record...and have clean audio...with some basic focus and monitoring...

 

[NorBro]

Any decision you're going to make is going to have some sort of conflict (besides using 32-bit float point recording which there is no clipping).

In short, Blackmagics will provide you the best quality by far but will be the toughest to use as everything is manual. And you'll need to run a preamp or mixer with the Pockets and you can't easily control audio levels while you're recording with them. (Did you read what I mentioned about AF? It's unusable unless you're okay with the image pulsing in and out during your productions for a few seconds.)

The Canon camcorders will have the audio control you're looking for (although not ideal) and have easier handling and AF, but the smaller sensors fall apart in any low-light and will overall have worse quality compared to mirrorless' like you've discovered.

C200 would be an excellent choice but it's only worth it if you're shooting RAW (which would definitely be overkill).

___

There is no easy decision here because you're asking for too much and the Japanese know better than to give us everything in one camera. You'll have to let go of something...XLRs, low-light, AF, IQ, etc...

 

[Mavoz]

Any decision you're going to make is going to have some sort of conflict (besides using 32-bit float point recording which there is no clipping).

In short, Blackmagics will provide you the best quality by far but will be the toughest to use as everything is manual. And you'll need to run a preamp or mixer with the Pockets and you can't easily control audio levels while you're recording with them. (Did you read what I mentioned about AF? It's unusable unless you're okay with the image pulsing in and out during your productions for a few seconds.)

The Canon camcorders will have the audio control you're looking for (although not ideal) and have easier handling and AF, but the smaller sensors fall apart in any low-light and will overall have worse quality compared to mirrorless' like you've discovered.

C200 would be an excellent choice but it's only worth it if you're shooting RAW (which would definitely be overkill).

___

There is no easy decision here because you're asking for too much and the Japanese know better than to give us everything in one camera. You'll have to let go of something...XLRs, low-light, AF, IQ, etc...

Thanks so much for this...

what about those Sony cameras? ie.
Sony PXW-Z150
Sony PXW-Z90V

talking with our tech here....we're actually starting to wonder if we push for 2 cameras...

One more expensive general purpose...give us auto...audio monitoring etc...
something like the Sony above...


And then a BlackMagic for our backup...B Camera...

I would have thought the audio monitoring wasn't terrible on the Black Magic? ie. it looks like it has clear levels...but maybe you have to touch the screen to adjust?

Thanks!

 

[NorBro]

I don't know anything about those Sonys so I really can't offer any advice on them, but if you're going to get two cameras then I'd recommend getting the same model. It's not a guarantee they will match but will likely match more closely than two other models, even from a similar family.

The Blackmagics have sliders, but do you really want to be monitoring your levels by touching your camera screen during production?

Auto audio levels in camcorders usually work pretty good but aren't bulletproof.

 

[Peter C.]

Thanks NorBro and PeterC....we've been busy with end of year school reports here etc...but really need to make a decision now on this camera...just need to lock something in before budget is lost!

So what would you buy in our shoes??

My concern re: Canon is the picture quality......our current Canon XA30 versus our Canon DSLR is absolutely no comparison in image quality..the DSLR's destroy it in terms of PQ...Canon is soft..muddy..horrible...

Here is comparison doc:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=680807511

Thanks for any final thoughts...

We just want to turn on the camera...point at target..press record...and have clean audio...with some basic focus and monitoring...

You could get a 1" sensor camcorder.

 

[NorBro]

He could record ProRes LT in any of them (external recorder for the studios), and since he's interested in HD, the space for it would actually be less than the 100mbps available in most of today's consumer/prosumer 4K cameras...so it would ironically still work out in his favor and the files would be 10-bit.

In short, file sizes are rarely worried about because of the many choices the cameras provide you (including compressed RAW options).

 

[Mavoz]

Thanks again...I was thinking we'd just set the cameras to 1080p...4K is just a nuisance for our workflow...and certainly don't want massive files...but the lack of good auto focus is a factor...

Today I used our Canon XA30 on a live stream...it did the job..but the picture quality was really bad...very fake looking colours...might have to see if I can tweak it somehow...

also the tiny audio level controls were very fiddly...

But it did do the job..the auto focus actually worked well....and I could get audio into the camera...

just sent the audio from the mixing desk to my Mix Pre...then via a Rode Wireless transmitter straight to the camera...30 metres near the front of the room...certainly way better audio than straight out of the camera...

On Monday for a graduation we'll try our existing 80d's as a B camera..but have to run that in manual focus to deal with the non clean HDMI...

We're continuing to look into what cameras might do the job in that $3 to $6K range...

Thanks!

 

[Mavoz]

Ok ..another contender.. What about a Panasonic Gh5 with the Xlr adaptor??

Autofocus Good audio monitoring
Better image quality than an Xa50?

Other than a non normal eng camera form factor... What negatives to this?

It certainly seems like it might be a better option than the Black magics?

 

[NorBro]

Only push AF, no useable continuous AF - but other than that it is a tried and true workhouse.

—

But do you really need AF for the stage? Most professionals would focus once and leave it on manual. Sometimes there are trickier situations with larger sensors and fast lenses, but f/4-ish with a wider lens and a small chip would have 90% of your area in focus.

 

[Mavoz]

Only push AF, no useable continuous AF - but other than that it is a tried and true workhouse.

—

But do you really need AF for the stage? Most professionals would focus once and leave it on manual. Sometimes there are trickier situations with larger sensors and fast lenses, but f/4-ish with a wider lens and a small chip would have 90% of your area in focus.

Thanks Nor Bro and Peter...definetely want auto focus for kids just pointing a cam at stage...(with fast moving kids across stages...auto focus has it's place I think even for me)

We'll get one 'normal' video camera like a Sony NX100

https://www.digitalcamerawarehouse.c...xcam-camcorder

But for the second camera...does anyone have any thoughts on either:

A.) Panasonic GH5 mkii with optional XLR adaptor

B.) Black magic Studio Pro 6K

Am starting to lean towards the Panasonic GH5 mkii with one of the 'kit' lenses:
https://www.camerahouse.com.au/panas...-system-camera

I believe this does actually have auto focus..and then the XLR inputs with the :

https://www.panasonic.com/au/consume...dmw-xlr1e.html

Would you go GH5 mkii with Panasonic Lens...or Blackmagic in our context??

Thanks! Nearly done!