Question about 5d3 bootflag ML raw startup issue

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photochris

New member
I'm a stills shooter that gets a lot of video gigs and the occasional cheap commercial thrown my way, but I've hesitated going raw with my 5d3 because of the bootflag startup issue. I'm now to the point where I want to tinker with raw and my only pause is the wakeup time. Lately I've been shooting with the sleep mode disabled to test the only workaround I can think of that allows me to fire off a shot without delay - no big deal because I have 6 or 7 batteries - and it seems to render the bootflag issue when shooting stills moot. Haven't had any overheating issues - even when shooting in midday Florida sun. I want to compare image and workflow with my newly acquired Blackmagic Pocket cam now that raw is in the Pocket. Before I move forward with ML, am I missing anything or is there anything I should be concerned about? Thanks in advance.
 
That is the workaround, turn the sleep mode off or set to a longer amount of time. Also hit the info button until the back LCD goes off, that will save a ton of power as well. Once you do those two things, only the top LCD will be on during normal optical viewfinder stills shooting. Basically the same way the EOS film cameras worked, the top LCD was always on when the camera was on, they don't seem to ever go into a sleep mode.

Don't get me wrong, I am SORELY disappointed that none of the Magic Lantern developers think removing the bootflag on demand or using the newer firmware updates are important. I think we are already there or fast approaching a time when the 5D3 will be old news and development on ML will basically stop. Essentially no one cares that it is pain in the ass of photographers and not reversible or that the bug fixes and new features added in the 1.2 firmwares are being missed out on by ML users.

To be clear, as a 5D3 ML user, I feel pretty hung out by Magic Lantern. I waited a long long time to try it, and sometimes I regret doing it since I now know I can never go back to stock. At the time I decided to install ML, I was under the impression that removing the bootflag was coming and that ML would move onto the new firmware verison. Now I am 100% sure those two things will NEVER happen. ML is falling apart, lots of in-fighting amoung the developers, Alex acting like an ass and not giving a damn about users. It is ugly and it is completely disorganized.

Raw video is amazing to shoot, but I don't know if it is worth this cost. And no one cares.
 
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Sorry to hear this. ML is such an altruistic enveavor. Too bad it is skidding on the rocks from your perspective. I too am waiting to install due to this boot flag thing. Has this been presented to the ML crew and given rejection?
 
It has gotten so bad that there is a movement in the ML forum to collect money to "reward" (bribe?) any ML developer into giving a damn about the bootflag issue. People have tried but no one has gotten an answer about why ML won't try to move onto the new firmware.

Blunt 100% truth: Alex is the lead Magic Lantern developer. Last year enough money was donated to get him a free 5D Mark III. Since then things have generally gone downhill. He likes to shoot Dual-ISO stills and really doesn't give a damn what anyone else thinks or needs. Other developers are getting frustated and leaving. It's a sad situation that proves that anarchy really doesn't work.
 
Celluloid Dream said:
It has gotten so bad that there is a movement in the ML forum to collect money to "reward" (bribe?) any ML developer into giving a damn about the bootflag issue. People have tried but no one has gotten an answer about why ML won't try to move onto the new firmware.

Blunt 100% truth: Alex is the lead Magic Lantern developer. Last year enough money was donated to get him a free 5D Mark III. Since then things have generally gone downhill. He likes to shoot Dual-ISO stills and really doesn't give a damn what anyone else thinks or needs. Other developers are getting frustated and leaving. It's a sad situation that proves that anarchy really doesn't work.
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Well it is all open source, it could always fork if people are getting antsy about the lead developers.
 
Thanks for the replies. I think eventually they get around to addressing the boot flag issue, after all the 5d3 will still be around a couple more years based on Canons history. My bigger concern was any issues aiding from not letting the camera go into sleep mode. I'm fine turning it off when not using and such, and I didn't think there would be any problems. Just wanted too see if anyone had experienced any negatives with disabling sleep. From browsing still forums, seems like lots of event shooters don't let their cams sleep. I think I'm good to go.
 
I am more concerned about resale of the camera. I never upgraded the firmware knowing that someday I might want to install ML. If I sell the camera to a stills shooter ML is not high on the list for them.

But, maybe you can answer this for me. If I want to sell the camera in the future, will upgrading to the most recent Canon firmware overwrite everything having to do with this bootflag thing? Basically making the camera ML free?

Thanks.
 
I don't understand what the issue is? Can someone explain?
I dont own the 5Diii, but I am planning on getting one around Christmas time primarily for video use with ML, but also photo use for personal stuff.
 
I think people need to remember that it is a open source community that can do what ever they want. If they don't want to fix something they won't. If it doesn't affect them they won't care. In the open source world they would tell you to fix it yourself. i.e. learn how to code and work for free for something you want. I love the gift they have given us, but I know it could fall apart ( the community) at any moment. Plus I really can't code!....

As for resale, I'd be more worried about bricking your camera. I've run ML since the start, but it is playing with fire. If it killed my camera it would only be my fault.I know the risks. I wouldn't bank on resale on something I was loading third party firmware onto.

My 2 bits
 
I don't get it really. Why fuck around with hacks etc.. in an era where there are so many "proper" RAW and non-RAW shooting cameras that can get the job done for your needs?

A.) Do you REALLY need RAW? B.) Consider if you have any money already invested in glass, etc.. and what you might have to switch to in order to go full frame.

Anyway to each their own. I know people have restriction on budgets, etc. but save your pennies until you can get a time tested and proven RED scarlet or wait another 2-6 months for the super 35mm BMC, or get current BMC with speed booster, etc..

So many options these days.
 
RAW is challenging on many levels. The 'problem' exists as the best quality is achieved by de-Bayering on a powerful computer vs. in camera. High end cameras have enough embedded hardware to do an excellent job of de-Bayering (or don't use a traditional Bayer pattern, such as the C100, C300). I purchased an FS700 + Speedbooster as an upgrade for the 5D3. At 24Mbps, it produces much higher quality than the 5D3's internal recorder. As we now all know, the 5D3 encoding quality is intentionally reduced so that the 5D3 won't compete with the C100, C300 etc. That's business- we must pay more for higher quality. 5D3 RAW has superior color to the FS700 internal: 14-bit vs. 8-bit however the FS700 still has more hardware dynamic range and resolution. After doing a few shoots with 5D3 RAW, I'm not likely to use it except for very, very short work/shots. While I can transcode using AE and ACR at 1/4 real-time on my 12-core box, it's still a lot of time and work for content which will end up highly compressed.

De-Bayering RED Epic/Scarlet footage takes even more time than 5D3 RAW. I've been helping a friend deal with large amounts of RED footage and without a Red Rocket (hardware card) transcoding with Redcine takes many hours for short clips (minutes) even on a late model 12-core (doesn't use full CPU/GPU though). Resolve and Premiere/AME are much faster (better CPU/GPU utilization and overall efficiency), but still take a while to process. It's very clear why ARRI Alexa is so popular for professional high-end work: you can shoot lightly compressed 10/12-bit ProRes and still have tons of post-gradeability. XAVC is excellent quality/compression ratio for the F5/F55. Hardware prices are continually dropping as performance increases. RAW will go away with better sensor design and more embedded processing power. And it won't be soon enough. Time is money.

Having a 5D3 around to shoot, high-quality short shots is a useful tool to have, but not as a primary camera. For Canon lenses, the next professional step up would be the C100 (which needs an external recorder for highest quality and some kind of monitor for focusing). BM devices shooting ProRes are also interesting depending on reliability and audio needs (I shoot docu style mostly and need pro-audio built in).
 
DDirector said:
I don't understand what the issue is? Can someone explain?
I dont own the 5Diii, but I am planning on getting one around Christmas time primarily for video use with ML, but also photo use for personal stuff.
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^ Can someone please answer some specificts around bootflag issue? What is the issue? And is the ML somehow permanent on the 5D iii that can not revert back to "Canon factory" settings?

Just wanted to get some clarity on that.

Cheers,
 
Currently no tool/option to toggle bootflag off. Seems like it would be easy though. Adds something like 1s to boot time (with no ML card installed): a possible issue for still shooters and fast action.

ML is super useful, especially focus peaking, lens focus distance display, and histogram, even without RAW.
 
starcentral said:
^ Can someone please answer some specificts around bootflag issue? What is the issue? And is the ML somehow permanent on the 5D iii that can not revert back to "Canon factory" settings?

Just wanted to get some clarity on that.

Cheers,
Click to expand...

I don't know all the intricacies of this issue, but from what I learned, it goes like this. It is mostly a photography issue, not a videography issue. The bootflag (aka bootdisk flag) is enabled when you install ML, and it currently can't be disabled, that is until someone at ML programs in that functionality. When the bootflag is enabled, the time it takes for the camera to startup or awaken from sleep is much longer than had the bootflag been disabled. It is only a few seconds difference, but for photographers that can be huge, especially if they are trying to conserve battery power at the same time and use sleep mode often.

There are also issues with specialty cards not working, like EyeFi cards no longer work.

It is only permanent insofar as ML haven't programmed a fix for it yet. Canon will replace your mainboard for you to fix it though, at an exorbitant cost of course. There have been some people that have made their own revisions to the code, and it seems to have worked, but it hasn't made it to the mainstream yet, seems people are afraid of messing with that area of memory as it can easily brick your camera if you are wrong.
 
starcentral said:
I don't get it really. Why poo poo around with hacks etc.. in an era where there are so many "proper" RAW and non-RAW shooting cameras that can get the job done for your needs?

A.) Do you REALLY need RAW? B.) Consider if you have any money already invested in glass, etc.. and what you might have to switch to in order to go full frame.

Anyway to each their own. I know people have restriction on budgets, etc. but save your pennies until you can get a time tested and proven RED scarlet or wait another 2-6 months for the super 35mm BMC, or get current BMC with speed booster, etc..

So many options these days.
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I agree with what you're saying to some degree, but everyone's needs are different and a Red anything is out of the question for me - even a C100 is out of my range.

I've looked at the EF mount BMC and it'll cost me more than my 5d3 once batteries and a SSD are added to the mix. I had a FS100 briefly, but didn't make enough to justify keeping a dedicated video camera - so its back to the 5d3 for me. It does a great job and Ive never had any complaints about the image. The raw workflow is just so mush more intuitive for me, as it mirrors what I do with stills. I don't have the time to become proficient with Resolve right now. I have the Blackmagic Pocket that I'll be using with adapted EF lenses, cheap M43 lenses and my manual glass while I try to get a handle on Resolve. That still has serious limitations, mainly on the wide end of things, the need for a cheap monitor to see what I'm recording and a battery adapter so I can use my Sony L batteries.

Though there are many options, all involve compromises for me. Just trying to find the one that allows me to make money. If I can pull a better image out of my existing equipment, that's the direction that makes the most fiscal sense to me.
 
Bassman2003 said:
So does anybody know if upgrading to the latest Canon firmware would "erase" the bootflag issue?
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From what I have read over on the ML forums, no, that won't happen. Even if Canon upgrades it, because the bootflag (bootdisk flag) isn't in the memory location that the firmware is written to, it is in a secondary set of memory that also contains other important things. Which is why people are weary about messing around with it.

It'll get done, but it will probably take time, or people willing to risk bricking their cameras.
 
Hello One more question: Is there a bootflag issue (startup time issue) with the 5DMKII? Thanks
 
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Isn't a one second delay a bit overblown? If your anticipating shooting something you probably have the camera on already and hanging on our neck or something?

I don't recall having a one second delay to have done anything to my photography needs. The canon 7d is even faster to bootup but I have never needed it that much through over 100 000 photos. Maybe once or twice but those photos came out shitty anyway.
 
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