NAB 2024 - Rumors and Wishes

Just my personal interest for NAB this year, but it sounds like no new cinema cameras from Canon at the moment. Good interview here where he asks about what’s new.

https://youtu.be/tCk_o4uf-ME

I don't understand Canon. The C500II came out nearly 5 years ago and the C300III came out nearly 4 years ago. Canon doesn't have to reinvent the wheel. They literally could have just re-released these bodies in RF mount and instantly satisfied a large number of people. Why they haven't done this baffles me.

Canon is the one camera brand I wouldn't touch today, at least not until they fix the mess they've created by having their flagship cinema cameras in one mount and all their other cameras in another. Why would you buy a C500II or C300III today knowing you can never use their modern RF glass on it? If the C500II and C300III were in RF mount, you could use either RF glass on them or you could adapt older EF glass to them, or even PL glass if you wanted. But to make them EF mount when the RF line was already announced, and to keep them that way for so many years, is just mind boggling to me.

I would never spend my money with Canon with the way things are right now.
 
IM not the science guy.... buy I do own the IR famous EX1.

The dark red dress reads as dark red.

The black cape reads as dark red.

The dark red dress should be dark red.

If you add a qualifier to catch all dark red and transform it to black you will cure the cape and ruin the dress.

As tom mentions you would need secondaries to cure it.

this is what i was thinking. you start with some pure black and some dark red:

Screenshot 2024-04-16 at 10.56.42 AM.png

tint the whole thing a bit red from IR pollution:

Screenshot 2024-04-16 at 10.56.49 AM.png

apply the exact opposite tint in post and you end up back where you started:

Screenshot 2024-04-16 at 10.56.57 AM.png
 
In addition canon isn’t allowing 3rd party to make lenses. Maybe it just me but I’ve always felt like I’m being punished by camera manufacturers holding back features intentionally and putting their interests ahead of the people who buy their cameras. So much more could be done and quicker. I just pulled the trigger on a 6 year old camcorder because it’s virtually the same as the “new” model released two years ago that uses the same sensor and hardware.

I get the feeling that they go off of sales and competition. If people are stuck in their eco system and still buying their cameras they will not update a camera and milk it as much as possible.
 
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The claim I'm seeing online is that different objects reflect different amounts of IR. So, the blacks will not be equally IR polluted and each object has to be treated differently. Hmm
 
Canon is still, more or less, stuck in that "still photography ecosystem mindset", even with their cine oriented cameras. Even though I more or less moved on from Canon in the video world several years ago(not that I don't love their color science and image), I definitely think they should move their cameras to RF mount. It would make them more flexible and adaptable. You could natively use their newer RF lenses along with what are today more or less the two industry standards: PL and EF mount lenses. Even Arri builds native EF mounts for their cameras. I have one each for my Amira and 35.
 
I just wrapped up three days of working for Sony in their booth, and although the Burano was not my focus, everything I saw from it look absolutely awesome. I'm going to get a demo unit later this month and put it through its paces to see what is what.
 
I don't get the big deal with RF mount. It's a bit of a nice feature but also has downsides. I have the C300 Mark III and C70, and one downside is more adapters to mess with. Oh no, I don't have the correct adapter on, it's the middle of the shoot, dang, the correct adapter is at home, didn't get packed, I'm screwed. Having choices can be nice but it can also slow you down and sometimes mess you up.

Then the lenses themselves, consider the CN-e primes, if buying today, which to buy, the RF CN-e primes or the EF. RF is a bit smaller but otherwise I believe is basically the same, while the EF has the rather big advantage of being able to be used on a much wider variety of cameras than just RF mount, such as Arri cameras and Sony cameras which cannot accept RF mount. So, stick with EF or PL mount of CN-e lenses, which then further negates the need for an RF mount camera.

For higher end lenses (such as the Ultra Primes I have), it's PL mount so no need for RF. It does take more time to deal with screws when switching the PL mount on the C300 Mark III compared to an RF to PL adapter on the C70, though I think screwing in a PL mount is a bit more rigid than RF to PL adapters.

So that mainly just leaves RF for if you want autofocus still lenses on your video camera, which then begs the question, just how much better are the RF still lenses for video purposes compared to the original EF ones which again, can also be used on a wider variety of cameras. The only RF lens I own in the 28-70 f/2, which, I actually have practically never used on my C70, and mainly use for still photos on my R5. I've got a whole bunch of EF still lenses and EF cinema lenses, and don't feel much need currently to buy into RF mount lenses for what is mostly incremental upgrades.

The 24-105 f/2.8 does look pretty nice, and perhaps the only lens that would moreso compel me to want an RF mount, though since I don't own that lens, it's not so compelling quite yet.

Maybe RF is more appealing to people who don't already own a lot of EF lenses and are willing to buy into just one camera system (RF mount) so don't feel a need to get lenses that can work on a variety of cameras. That's not me, though.


People seem to be hating on the Sony Burano so I'm quite hoping Canon will reassert their dominance with a new and better than Burano camera at a lower price point, as the market is prime for taking now with the aging FX9, people disliking the Burano, and perhaps Sony not planning an FX9 Mark II any time soon since the Burano just came out. I own the FS7, FX9, and FX30, and don't like any of them, Canon (and Arri) all the way for me, but unfortunately got them because clients requested them enough and thus I was forced into sometimes using cruddy Sony cameras. So, here's to hoping Canon wins the next round.

CanonRumors says they're expecting an announcement from Canon in May, the R5 Mark II and/or next C-series camera.
 
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If you look at the RF versions of the CN-E primes, they’re actually slightly bigger(longer), because they had to make up for the difference in the flange depth between EF and RF(since they are the exact same lenses). If buying CN-E’s (even) today, definitely go EF, as they’re compatible with more cameras. I can put mine on every large sensor camera I own. If they were RF, well…. Not so much. EF & PL give you the widest camera compatibility.

It’s funny what you said about the FX-9, Eric. Last year I ran into a buddy down in Atlanta and he said kinda the same thing. He hates the camera and only bought it, because everyone wanted it, but everything he does with it, he could do with the Fs7. And as much as I love(d) my F55, every time I have to shoot with it now, it just feels like I’m using a toy, compared to my Arri’s and broadcast cameras. And the Fx/Fs cameras are even worse.
 
I just wrapped up three days of working for Sony in their booth, and although the Burano was not my focus, everything I saw from it look absolutely awesome. I'm going to get a demo unit later this month and put it through its paces to see what is what.

Looking forward to hearing what you'll have to say about it, Doug. It's certainly been on my radar...
 
I have the C300 Mark III and C70, and one downside is more adapters to mess with. Oh no, I don't have the correct adapter on, it's the middle of the shoot, dang, the correct adapter is at home, didn't get packed, I'm screwed.

Whatever you are traveling the camera in should have provision for the mounts as well. Custom foamed inserts for your cases or divider inserts for an AKS case that always comes with. Should be a non-issue.
 
Whatever you are traveling the camera in should have provision for the mounts as well. Custom foamed inserts for your cases or divider inserts for an AKS case that always comes with. Should be a non-issue.
I have a spot in my bag for my adapter. In most cases it's left on the camera, particularly since I primarily use just EF with my C70, though, since I also have the full frame adapter, that's just more added complication (for better and for worse).

My R5, on the other hand, can be more of a hassle, as I'll use the 28-70 RF a lot with it, but then when I want to switch to EF lenses, I have to find the adapter. It may have been left on the 50mm prime last, so, gotta find which lens compartment or location in the studio that was left. Or, maybe it was left on the 70-200, so, gotta get that. It's just extra work to have to track down where I left the adapter, which slows things down. It gets costly to have an adapter for each and every lens, when you have 20 lenses, and it would be more time consuming to always take the adapter off of a lens and put it in a particular compartment (perhaps a bag in a different location on the set) compared to leaving it on a lens, particularly if you may be switching back to that lens soon.

Let's just say, I don't run into these time consuming issues with my C300 Mark III which has EF mount bolted to it 99% of the time, aside from the very rare occasions I use PL mount on the C300 (most times I'm using my PL mount lenses I'm shooting with the Amira). I charge extra for my Ultra Primes, and most clients willing to pay extra for that are also paying extra to shoot with the Amira, so I think the only time I ever got hired with the lower end C300 with Ultra Primes was for a Netflix original since the Amira is not Netflix approved.

The Amira I do switch lens mount typically on a job by job basis depending if I'm using EF or PL, which can take a bit of extra time prior to a shoot. It can be scary with the Amira on a job, thinking, if I packed Ultra primes, and somehow the PL mount didn't get packed, how that can really mess up the shoot. I don't believe I've had that happen, but whenever I'm leaving for a shoot, thinking, "Do I have the basic necessities, media, batteries, camera, tripod," now, lens mount is just one more thing that I have to make absolutely sure I have packed correctly, one more vital thing to worry about. In most cases I'll attach the mount the day before the shoot and leave the other mount in the bag, but that doesn't mean it's not still one more thing that can go wrong.

So sure, choice is nice, but complication always slows things down and consumes more time. It's kind of like with an Alexa Mini you have the choice to rig it to a gimbal, while with the Amira you don't have that choice (aside from extra large gimbals), but I would imagine the average Amira owner/op spends less time rigging in general than a Mini owner/op, which can be a benefit of not having more choices.

To give an exaggerated example, imagine two DPs charging $2500 per day, booking 100 jobs per year, $250k per year, one of them has a swiss army knife camera that can do everything but requires an extra two hours of work rigging per job, and the other camera can only do one setup and requires no time pre-rigging per job. Now imagine a scenario where both DPs could still book the 100 jobs per year regardless of which camera they have, which is the better scenario, the DP who spends 200 hour pre-rigging the camera per year and makes the same amount of money, or the DP who spends zero time pre-rigging per year? In the corporate/doc world, most jobs don't pay for a prep day, so the time I spend at home changing lens mounts and rigging cameras is typically not additional paid time, and if or when it is, it's not by the hour (so if I can increase my rigging efficiency with less complicated setups, I can spend more time playing airsoft).
 
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I have a spot in my bag for my adapter. In most cases it's left on the camera, particularly since I primarily use just EF with my C70, though, since I also have the full frame adapter, that's just more added complication (for better and for worse).

My R5, on the other hand, can be more of a hassle, as I'll use the 28-70 RF a lot with it, but then when I want to switch to EF lenses, I have to find the adapter. It may have been left on the 50mm prime last, so, gotta find which lens compartment or location in the studio that was left. Or, maybe it was left on the 70-200, so, gotta get that. It's just extra work to have to track down where I left the adapter, which slows things down. It gets costly to have an adapter for each and every lens, when you have 20 lenses, and it would be more time consuming to always take the adapter off of a lens and put it in a particular compartment (perhaps a bag in a different location on the set) compared to leaving it on a lens, particularly if you may be switching back to that lens soon.

Let's just say, I don't run into these time consuming issues with my C300 Mark III which has EF mount bolted to it 99% of the time, aside from the very rare occasions I use PL mount on the C300 (most times I'm using my PL mount lenses I'm shooting with the Amira). I charge extra for my Ultra Primes, and most clients willing to pay extra for that are also paying extra to shoot with the Amira, so I think the only time I ever got hired with the lower end C300 with Ultra Primes was for a Netflix original since the Amira is not Netflix approved.

The Amira I do switch lens mount typically on a job by job basis depending if I'm using EF or PL, which can take a bit of extra time prior to a shoot. It can be scary with the Amira on a job, thinking, if I packed Ultra primes, and somehow the PL mount didn't get packed, how that can really mess up the shoot. I don't believe I've had that happen, but whenever I'm leaving for a shoot, thinking, "Do I have the basic necessities, media, batteries, camera, tripod," now, lens mount is just one more thing that I have to make absolutely sure I have packed correctly, one more vital thing to worry about. In most cases I'll attach the mount the day before the shoot and leave the other mount in the bag, but that doesn't mean it's not still one more thing that can go wrong.

So sure, choice is nice, but complication always slows things down and consumes more time. It's kind of like with an Alexa Mini you have the choice to rig it to a gimbal, while with the Amira you don't have that choice (aside from extra large gimbals), but I would imagine the average Amira owner/op spends less time rigging in general than a Mini owner/op, which can be a benefit of not having more choices.

To give an exaggerated example, imagine two DPs charging $2500 per day, booking 100 jobs per year, $250k per year, one of them has a swiss army knife camera that can do everything but requires an extra two hours of work rigging per job, and the other camera can only do one setup and requires no time pre-rigging per job. Now imagine a scenario where both DPs could still book the 100 jobs per year regardless of which camera they have, which is the better scenario, the DP who spends 200 hour pre-rigging the camera per year and makes the same amount of money, or the DP who spends zero time pre-rigging per year? In the corporate/doc world, most jobs don't pay for a prep day, so the time I spend at home changing lens mounts and rigging cameras is typically not additional paid time, and if or when it is, it's not by the hour (so if I can increase my rigging efficiency with less complicated setups, I can spend more time playing airsoft).

sounds like you're making excuses. yes, it's definitely preferable to have a rig that requires less time spent reconfiguring it. and that's definitely a loss of time/money in the first scenario you describe. but it's also true that you forgot to pack your kit that day. and even when I'm going out with the same package I shot with the day before, I still double-check what I'm bringing. there are so many little bits and bobs you could forget to bring. the mount is just one more
 
In a perfect world, I'd only be dealing with one mount, but that's not the case. And generally it's not that big of a deal, at least logistically speaking. Each of my cameras has its own dedicated support bag. One for each broadcast camera, one for my F55, one for my Amira and one for my 35. And each large sensor camera has its own full set of mounts. The F55 always has the PL mount on the body and two EF adapters in the bag along with its media, card reader, batts, p/s, etc. The Amira always has the PL on the body, because 99% of the time it's going to have either the 17-120 or 25-250 on it traveling to the shoot, regardless of what lenses I may ultimately be using and then the EF mount and Arri B4 adapter are in the support bag, along with media, reader, specialty cables, batts, p/s, etc. And the 35, the same. LPL/PL on the body with EF mount, media, reader, specialty cables, batts, p/s, etc. in the support bag(or hard case minus batts, if it's going on a rental). Really the only adapter or mount that doesn't live permanently on a camera or in one of the camera support bags is my IBE B4 adapter, but if I'm going to be using a 2/3" ENG lens with it, it's 99.9% going to be on the F55 and it's going to be prepped and mounted before I leave the house, anyway. But maybe I just start leaving it in the F55 bag from now on.

It takes about 10 seconds to swap mounts on the F55. About two minutes on the Amira and 35, unless it's the B4 adapter or LPL-to-PL, which both just pop into the PL or LPL mounts like lenses.
 
I don't work in a scenario where we are switching lens mounts on cameras during the day, so I'm a little thrown where this paradigm where lens mounts are "left on a lens"--trying to understand why not just always remove the lens from the adaptor when changing lenses, and when you do need to change the adaptor itself that is its own animal? Are these shoots that crazy run-and-gun? I understand that with little to no crew you have to be very efficient with amount of cases and bags to keep the footprint down, but surely there is some way to streamline the check-out process for each job whereby the removable bits all go in a case or bag with dividers so you can see at a glance if something is missing from a compartment.

In my early 20's I worked on staff at a production company run by a former Marine cameraman (served in Vietnam, once I watched some of his 16mm footage and it was really surreal). He thankfully didn't lean too deep into the military stuff, but he did use to refer to batteries and media as "ammo" and how important it was to never leave them behind. It got drilled into me very effectively. Every time I'm packing for a shoot and I there's a case I haven't looked at or double checked etc. and I'm feeling too lazy to bother, I stop and make myself do it. Saved my ass a few times that way. Keeping one's gear organized and functioning is the least sexy part of our business but it is very much the backbone of success, as far as I'm concerned. I've seen productions slam to a halt because of perfectly avoidable "whoopsies" and it is no laughing matter.
 
I don't work in a scenario where we are switching lens mounts on cameras during the day, so I'm a little thrown where this paradigm where lens mounts are "left on a lens"--trying to understand why not just always remove the lens from the adaptor when changing lenses, and when you do need to change the adaptor itself that is its own animal? Are these shoots that crazy run-and-gun? I understand that with little to no crew you have to be very efficient with amount of cases and bags to keep the footprint down, but surely there is some way to streamline the check-out process for each job whereby the removable bits all go in a case or bag with dividers so you can see at a glance if something is missing from a compartment.
With the R5 I'm talking mostly still photography shoots in studios with different sets and rooms, and needing to go from set to set without a dedicated assistant, changing lenses quite often, and having to keep track of where the lens mounts are. When I'm switching from the EF 50mm to the RF 28-70, I'm not going to pause a photo shoot so I can take the mount off the lens, run back to the camera bag that's 40 feet away from me, store it in the pouch in the camera bag, run back to to the shoot, take more photos, then when it comes time to put on the 70-200, run 40 feet back to the camera bag, put that mount on the 70-200...Rather, I'm going to have a small lens bag nearby where I'm shooting, or just place the lenses I'm not using on a nearby piece of furniture, then when I need to change from the EF 50 to the RF 28-70, I'll put the EF 50 on a table, next to the 70-200, leave the EF to RF mount on the 50, then, well, maybe I want the 50 again five minutes later, hey, it's already got the adapter on it, no wasted time changing adapters, but then later, I want the 70-200, well, now I need to change adapters, where did I put the 50, oh, there it is, over on the desk, took a bit of time to find it, probably less time than running back to a large camera bag in another room, but, now I've got to switch the adapters, well, this is taking time. If I just had one lens mount to deal with, then, I wouldn't be wasting as much time.

It would slightly solve my problems to just buy a few more RF to EF lens mounts, though a few would not be enough to put on all 20ish of my Canon lenses (not that I always need all of them at once for a single shoot). But like anything, it all costs money, so you buy it when the 1-3 minutes of time savings per shoot is financially worth the $500-$1000 to buy more mounts, and is more gear to manage.


sounds like you're making excuses. yes, it's definitely preferable to have a rig that requires less time spent reconfiguring it. and that's definitely a loss of time/money in the first scenario you describe. but it's also true that you forgot to pack your kit that day. and even when I'm going out with the same package I shot with the day before, I still double-check what I'm bringing. there are so many little bits and bobs you could forget to bring. the mount is just one more
If we had to choose between having gear that had 30 vital pieces of equipment needed to accomplish the job, or 5 vital pieces of equipment, all else being equal, 5 would be preferable. The more pieces of equipment you have that will make or break the job, the statistically more likely you are to forget to pack, lose, have broken, stolen, etc., a vital piece of equipment. Sure, you can take precautions, write check lists, do whatever, but all I'm saying is that the less vital pieces of gear, the statistically lower chance you'll have issues if a piece of gear is not present or not working properly.

One of my Sony L to EF mounts the other day just stopped working in the middle of a shoot. I own about 10 of them, and have a spare, so was fine. But things happen. The Arri EF and PL mounts cost around $1500; I would guess the majority of owner operators do not own a backup lens mount.


I think my only point here is that people make a big deal about RF mount, and don't seem to consider any of the downsides. A camera that uses a built in (or screwed in) mount is less complicated and often more rigid. That said, I'd still prefer an RF mount, I'm just saying to me it's not a huge deal and has its downsides. Of course, this is what I really want in a C300 Mark IV...

https://www.dvxuser.com/forum/canon-...k-iii-wishlist

Also, RF mount is not a heavy duty mount. Arri's LPL mount (from what I know since I've never used it) is rigid.
 
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It would slightly solve my problems to just buy a few more RF to EF lens mounts, though a few would not be enough to put on all 20ish of my Canon lenses (not that I always need all of them at once for a single shoot). But like anything, it all costs money, so you buy it when the 1-3 minutes of time savings per shoot is financially worth the $500-$1000 to buy more mounts, and is more gear to manage.https://www.dvxuser.com/forum/canon-...k-iii-wishlist

If doing stills, instead of adapting each lens, why don't you get an EF camera body? It's not like it'd be a cumbersome video camera with lots of accessories..
 
If doing stills, instead of adapting each lens, why don't you get an EF camera body? It's not like it'd be a cumbersome video camera with lots of accessories..
Because the R5 is better for stills than any Canon EF bodies, and I want to use the RF 28-70, and I prefer RF mount, as I said. I'm just saying it can complicate things, depending on one's setup, such as mine, which involves using both EF and RF lenses on an RF body. I'll take the tradeoffs and complications, but I'm also not one who goes around singing high praises for the RF mount, especially for video since I'm mostly using EF lenses along with cinema lenses in EF or PL for video. Maybe I'll change my tune if or when I get the RF 24-105 2.8, but aside from that lens I don't see big advantages with the current RF lens lineup for video.
 
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Because the R5 is better than any Canon EF bodies, and I want to use the RF 28-70, and I prefer RF mount, as I said. I'm just saying it can complicate things, depending on one's setup, such as mine, which involves using both EF and RF lenses on an RF body.

Fair enough. Didn't mean to complicate things!
 
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