CAMCORDERS: Workflow for preserving highest possible resolution from tape-based sources

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0000 said:
Hello! I'm gearing up to shoot my third feature film and we've landed on the DVX100b as the camera that we will use.
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STOP! I don't know how you are viewing the video above, but on my monitors it is a soft, mushy, grainy mess. Just awful. Why in hell would you want to use a 20-year old camera that was never that good in the first place? Why?? The "look" is nothing special. There are so many far better cameras that can be had dirt cheap. My unsolicitated advice is to stop right now and re-evaluate the path you are on. If you really want people to watch and admire your hard work, don't use a 20 year old consumer camera.
 
You could get something like that off tapes (provided that you still have a way/workflow for digitizing them).

Dial in nice color settings into the camera (experiment and research different looks), shoot progressive, consider light sharpening, noise reduction, and, yes, definitely AI-upscaling now.

Sometimes people also take lower-resolution footage (like 1080p) and drop it into a UHD timeline (in that case) and export that as the upload which may get processed better by YT, Vimeo, etc.

The SD and early HD days were very notorious for hundreds of thousands of user errors, since we were all figuring out stuff as it was being made and introduced to the world for the first time, so you'll see a lot of different results.
 
Your interest is in getting the "crispest" image out of an SD camera--have you tested the HVX200? Still has plenty of the retro look to it since it was only a few years after the DVX, but you don't have to jump through as many hoops. And you can record to cards! Or take the component out through a converter and use a modern recorder if that is your preference. Since you said you were testing cameras as they come in, I think it's worth giving a try as it will save you a lot of headache. If I remember correctly, the sensors and processing wasn't hugely different between the DVX and the HVX (someone remind me if I'm wrong).

As far as taking a digital output from the DVX, that's a tough one. The only such port is Firewire, and there is no easy or portable way to capture live video through Firewire at this point, unless you use a legacy Firewire recorder (which I don't recommend, as they are old and you risk losing your footage--same with capturing to DV). I've done a lot of research on converters that pass video through Firewire via SDI, there were a few made but they are long gone. I have a DVX in my rental fleet of vintage cameras (it's actually the "newest" of the bunch!) and I use the S-video out to capture on an outboard recorder, which is fine if the desired result is a non-pristine image--which it usually is.
 
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On your tape quest. Remember you are buying old stock. Some VERY old stock. The only difference i ever detected in tapes over the years was quality control, never quality. Oxide shedding, tolerances in the housings, that kind of thing. Never image quality, just preventing it dropping. Some cameras were optimised for certain tapes, and did not work well on others. Bias current, equalisation curves, that kind of thing. Some seemed to be very prone to clogs, while other cameras didnt? Now, the problem is that until you hit play, you dont even know if the tape you used actually recorded! Towards the end of tape, the rule became use once. Record. Replay once to ingest it into the system. Never use the camera to rewind or replay as that horrible crunching noise always happens.

On the quality front, I am afraid to say I would not watch it. Perhaps I am missing the point, but its a bit like using low fi sounds that have fans in the audio recording world, where I live too. The perfect, ultra high quality sounds vs the grungy low bit rate stuff that I do actually have in sample packages. I get it that you perhaps love the look of old video from tape in smaller frame sizes. That’s OK with me, but i dont produce for that audience, so cannot comment. I suppose its down to intended audience. Clearly most folk here are always going up in image quality direction.

Just be careful with choosing tape. I always liked JVC DV tapes. I found an old camera. Cleaned it. Opened a couple of tapes. First one was fine. Second one made the noise of death and killed the heads. They just do not store well.new or old.
 
0000 said:
many thanks! We just ordered 3 of them online so we're going to be testing a bunch. We'll consider all of the above! Interesting point about the UHD timeline. I think it could be beneficial for us to play with export settings and see how they change as we upload for preview. We may also try all of this in tape and also directly to a digital recorder in tandem to compare. Thanks again!
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Exporting is important, you need to provide the file as much data as possible. And to your advantage you have more flexibility here because you can keep these file sizes smaller (vs. trying to export a 1-hour 8K file with very high-quality properties, etc).
 
Doug Jensen said:
STOP! I don't know how you are viewing the video above, but on my monitors it is a soft, mushy, grainy mess. Just awful. Why in hell would you want to use a 20-year old camera that was never that good in the first place? Why?? The "look" is nothing special. There are so many far better cameras that can be had dirt cheap. My unsolicitated advice is to stop right now and re-evaluate the path you are on. If you really want people to watch and admire your hard work, don't use a 20 year old consumer camera.
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8. No Pi$$ing In The Pool
Trolling, Baiting, Complaining and beating dead horses is like urinating in the pool -- it may make you feel good, but it kind of ruins it for everyone else.
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It is not up to you to tell anyone else how to envision their own project, especially a new member looking for insights.
 
CharlesPapert said:
Your interest is in getting the "crispest" image out of an SD camera--have you tested the HVX200? Still has plenty of the retro look to it since it was only a few years after the DVX, but you don't have to jump through as many hoops. And you can record to cards! Or take the component out through a converter and use a modern recorder if that is your preference. Since you said you were testing cameras as they come in, I think it's worth giving a try as it will save you a lot of headache. If I remember correctly, the sensors and processing wasn't hugely different between the DVX and the HVX (someone remind me if I'm wrong).

As far as taking a digital output from the DVX, that's a tough one. The only such port is Firewire, and there is no easy or portable way to capture live video through Firewire at this point, unless you use a legacy Firewire recorder (which I don't recommend, as they are old and you risk losing your footage--same with capturing to DV). I've done a lot of research on converters that pass video through Firewire via SDI, there were a few made but they are long gone. I have a DVX in my rental fleet of vintage cameras (it's actually the "newest" of the bunch!) and I use the S-video out to capture on an outboard recorder, which is fine if the desired result is a non-pristine image--which it usually is.
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I would 2nd Charles opinion on this. The HVX200 was essentially an HD "update" to the original DVX100. It can shoot in true 24p - in certain modes and had decent run times in 720p - shooting to P2 cards. Did a lot of corporate work with that camera when it first came out - and can certainly have a "grainy, "organic" "insert your adjective for filmic here" type look under the right conditions. I actually still have 2 of them, somewhere amidst a lot of other older gear that I waited to long to sell to make any return on the initial investment.
But wouldn't recommend any of these older cams if shooting in dark, murky conditions. Dual ISO & more modern, higher native ISO's are certainly your friend and can make life easier on set. I am certainly of the opinion that it's better to "bring down and add grain in post" - then try to capture a grainy image as your starting point.
 
I wonder if DJ got a little suspension from that post the other night, lol (just randomly saw the 'start conversation' button was missing when my mouse hovered over his name).

And OP deleted his OP o_O
 
To the OP, 0000 - if you want to PM me (assume that's still possible here), maybe now is the time for me to unload 2 HVX200's, P2 cards, batteries, and even P2 slotted hard drive storage mobile unit... to a new member in need....
 
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