Managing expectations for zero-budget projects

S

Stephen Coates

Member
I was just wondering what people's thoughts are on how to manage expectations when working on a zero-budget film (zero budget as in I have to pay my own bus fare and buy my own cappuccino).

A couple of years ago someone asked me if I'd help him with a short film which he wanted to make. I gladly obliged, as did various others, but unfortunately, we didn't make much progress. Two years later he wants to have another go.

I'm generally quite happy to do things like this but it is difficult to get some people to understand the practicalities. e.g. People who don't work full time for whatever reason might have quite a lot of time available but are not in a position to buy/rent equipment beyond what they already have. We were quite fortunate to have someone who has a drone, but it cannot be used in some of the desired locations for legal reasons. People who are available this Saturday may not be available next Saturday. If the cameraman/editor's main computer doesn't work properly and he has to spend hours transcoding HD video files to edit them on an old ThinkPad and then upload the edits to a server over a 3G cellular connection on a dodgy MVNO because the VDSL is also out of order.... tough luck.

I think this time I will try and over-emphasise the importance of having a script. That is, the actual words you want people to say, written down on a piece of paper... and not just an idea for people to make it up as they go along.
 
Stephen Coates said:
I was just wondering what people's thoughts are on how to manage expectations when working on a zero-budget film (zero budget as in I have to pay my own bus fare and buy my own cappuccino).

A couple of years ago someone asked me if I'd help him with a short film which he wanted to make. I gladly obliged, as did various others, but unfortunately, we didn't make much progress. Two years later he wants to have another go.

I'm generally quite happy to do things like this but it is difficult to get some people to understand the practicalities. e.g. People who don't work full time for whatever reason might have quite a lot of time available but are not in a position to buy/rent equipment beyond what they already have. We were quite fortunate to have someone who has a drone, but it cannot be used in some of the desired locations for legal reasons. People who are available this Saturday may not be available next Saturday. If the cameraman/editor's main computer doesn't work properly and he has to spend hours transcoding HD video files to edit them on an old ThinkPad and then upload the edits to a server over a 3G cellular connection on a dodgy MVNO because the VDSL is also out of order.... tough luck.

I think this time I will try and over-emphasise the importance of having a script. That is, the actual words you want people to say, written down on a piece of paper... and not just an idea for people to make it up as they go along.
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There's no script? That's way beyond managing expectations; that's a production that's going to be a waste of time. I couldn't even imagine asking anyone to commit to a project (for free!) I haven't committed to enough to write it down.

You should have whoever this is read our Pre-Production Overview at the very least. This is basically the minimum which should be done if he/she wants to be serious about this.

 
The only expectations to manage here would be deciding when you're tired of going and paying for stuff you may not be paying for if you didn't go.

I mean...so much effort needs to go into making a quality product, film - especially in 2025+ when the bar is set too high for most to ever even come close to - how much of anything could you possibly put in for free?

There is approximately a zero percent chance anything will come out of it - at least how it's currently described - and, to me, doing something like the above is just for bonding, having fun with your friends, when you don't have anything else to do at that moment in your life.
 
For my participation, I would require that they write a script, a shot list and complete the other basic pre-production items that are needed to make a set run smoothly. It's no fun being on a disorganized set. The fact that they don't have these things indicates disorganization and failure. You are going to waste your time on set once-again and the project won't complete.

I'm retired and I do no-budget projects for a hobby. The first thing I do is ask for the script to decide if I want to be involved. Second is a call to evaluate the leaders (who should also be evaluating me) and talk about the project. Sometimes, the people have no clue what they are doing and I politely decline. For example, I had a 45 minute call with a producer. During the call, he told me he is the greatest producer in the world (he really said that) and bragged the entire time. Not once, did he ask me anything about myself or my experience....... good by.

Once I have reviewed the script and I determine the producer/director is sane, it goes quite well regarding production.
 
If I'm asked to shoot someone else's passion project without pay, then I need a script that I like well enough, a director and producer that I get along with, a production plan that isn't guaranteed to be miserable, a gaffer or experienced grip to work with, a realistic plan to capture clean audio that doesn't involve me, and a guarantee that I will get actual meals that accommodate my dietary restrictions. The project has to be fun, creatively fulfilling, or advantageous from a professional standpoint -- preferably all three. Anything less, and I won't even consider it.
 
I’d try to be collaborating with people that don’t need to be convinced about the idea of a script. Just because something is zero budget doesn’t necessarily mean the crew members’ abilities are compromised, but it means extra (extra, extra) work upfront to find these people. Otherwise you’re just kicking the can down the road, and it’s much more frustrating working through catastrophic issues during production vs being disappointed in pre production. But thinking about production before the script has been developed is fantasy land. I know prosuction details may inform script choices on low budget work but the script isn’t a burden, it’ll be an essential guide.
 
There's no script? That's way beyond managing expectations; that's a production that's going to be a waste of time. I couldn't even imagine asking anyone to commit to a project (for free!) I haven't committed to enough to write it down.

You should have whoever this is read our Pre-Production Overview at the very least. This is basically the minimum which should be done if he/she wants to be serious about this.
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Thanks for the replies everyone. I did print out the guides from this site the other week for future reference :).

The reason for the lack of a script initially was because when I was first approached, the whole thing was just an idea. He didn't know how to proceed and needed to find people with knowledge/experience of video. There also wasn't going to be much dialog, but even then, it helps a lot if people know what they're going to say (and can do so consistently).

We'll see...
 
A treatment is a good starting point for a film, the director/writer can then expand from that into something more detailed. It also allows them to work out the structure of the proposed film. There's a lot of info online for anyone writing a script, plus pdf scripts that you can download.

Film scripts don't just have dialogue, they include the action that you can see - it can be pretty detailed.
 
Stephen Coates said:
The reason for the lack of a script initially was because when I was first approached, the whole thing was just an idea. He didn't know how to proceed and needed to find people with knowledge/experience of video.
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This reminds me of a person who joined a film group I was in. She told us that for two years she shot film of the activities in a woman's clothing store. She said she joined the group because she wanted help. When asked what her idea was for the film, she said she didn't know.

The world is full of half-baked ideas. But no one is going to make a person's film for them. You can't just pull a cast and crew together and hope something happens. It's ridiculous.
 
But of course, there is one exception to this:

FILMMAKER: I want to be a film maker.
OTHERS: Do you have an idea, or a script or talent or skills of any kind?
FILMMAKER: No.
OTHERS: Get lost.
FILMMAKER: But I do have lots of money.
OTHERS: Welcome friend! Sit down. Make yourself comfortable.
 
On another forum, cant remember which one, there was a guy who constantly asked for advice on making his movie. Evreything he posted rang warning bells. I think his name was Ryan. Totally crazy ideas he would not set aside. Always the same story, slightly tweaked and clearly, everybody involved kept giving up and leaving his group. He always had rubbish actors, terrible camera skills and a plot so complex and horrible nobody would ever want to be in it. He would pop up and post “ i want to add in a scene where a drug deal goes bad, and there is a cop on the take”. As he had mentioned same idea each year, we all just tried to help, but this core feature kept reappearing, with different actors, tweaked. Everybody always asked why? I often wonder if he ever got it made.
 
For zero budget the expectation of all participants is that it will be for “fun” or to gain experience. It will cost you time and money, the likelihood it will lead to anything is low.

How you define success is equally important. Might be successful if you complete it, or enter it into a film festival or share it with friends and family. This doesn’t mean not working hard or smart. Out of respect for all participants it should be well planned with a reviewed script/screenplay. You don’t want ppl on the project who don’t take it seriously. If you exceed expectations that’s icing on the cake.

In regards to Ryan, he had some sort of condition (I don't want to go into) that wasn't conducive to film making. The take away is know your limitations, plan, but don't over thinking it, and do it. Even if it isn't a success at least you tried.
 
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Yes! I wonder if he ever got anything done. Oddly, I now have a 6 year old grandson with the same condition, and Ryan has helped me enormously understand (or at least understand a bit) - and develop good strategy for dealing with it. The snag the OP has is sadly, the very common one. A group of people with less dedication, reliability and work ethic than the instigator. One of the guys constantly dreaming up good ideas locally here has a great way of spinning it. He tells them openely there will be no pay, but he will do the organising and fund wha needs to be bought or hired and if, only if the project makes money then 50% of the gross profit will be split between the participants. So far he's done a few pretty good ones, but none have recouped his investment, let alone made a profit - but it is accepted as a sort of lottery. The people are not doing a freebie, and therefore have little commitment, they all have the possibility of making some money?
 
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