Best way to shoot a short cafe sceane

mty_xyz

mty_xyz

Member
For a competition we are creating a short comedy sketch inside a cafe. Our Director insists we film one line stop and reposition the cameras again and again. This makes no sense at all to me and all the dialogue will be disjointed.

I suggested we film a section of the sketch maybe 3 times adjusting the camera after each take. This to me would allow for much better timing and movement.

Please help we haven’t got much of an idea here. We just plain don’t know what to do for the best.
 
moving camera after each line? after each take? is this an experimental piece? i suggest both of you sit down and watch other films of the same genre that you're going for and count how many camera angles there are in such scenes. the most typical for two actors is master, medium, shot reverse shot. thats a starting point, but moving the camera constantly better well have a specific reason and purpose or else it's just audience repellent
 
You got the right idea, mty. Comedy you don't really need a lot of cuts if your actors have the rhythm down and can get through it. No need to over-complicate things.
 
Don't do it * and please especially not in a comedy sketch. The most important things in a comedy sketch are the comedians! Not the camera. Camera follows actors (acting) - or, better: Camera gives room for the comedians to do what they do.

This is different if you do real action-comedy or slapstick maybe. So: Look at the actors. Give them space to move. Be concerned with their timing. And never forget: You may get the "pixie dust" of really good comedic acting only two or three times out of maybe ten takes you shoot for a scene. Protect this moment by not moving iron!

* justincase this was not clear: Don't do it the way this "director" wants to do it.
 
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Yes. Fundamentally the director doesn't have a clue what he's doing. Try to steer him towards doing it the infinitely better way of running the entire scene or fairly large sections of the scene from each camera position. Alternatively this is the kind of place where two cameras does make sense (I generally advise against it). A dialogue scene with lots of quickly paced back and forth between the two characters.
 
Fire the director and hire an editor to direct the film. ;)

I'm totally against two or more cameras usually, but in this case it makes a lot of sense because the thing with comedy is sometimes the lines are adlibed and you can guarantee that lines will not be repeated the same way over multiple takes.
 
starcentral said:
Fire the director and hire an editor to direct the film. ;)

I'm totally against two or more cameras usually, but in this case it makes a lot of sense because the thing with comedy is sometimes the lines are adlibed and you can guarantee that lines will not be repeated the same way over multiple takes.
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Exactly. People stomping on each others lines, cutting each other off, ad libbing, etc... That kind of "bang! bang! bang!" comedy is the one of the times multi cam actually makes sense.
 
Thank you all for all those words of wisdom there is a lot to take in here. Isnt it funny how you find you never know you cant do some thing until you actualy have to come up with the goods .....now how do you dirrect a dirrector LOL

Cheers you all
 
mty_xyz said:
....now how do you dirrect a dirrector LOL
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First you ask to see his previous work to shatter his confidence, then you make the suggestion that someone else with more experience directing take the job. Like I said, in a pinch I'd use an EDITOR to direct over anything else.. he will know what to shoot and keep your shooting ratios down to a minimum.. he will also know how much wide/medium/ and closeup shots to get...

Oh well main thing is live and learn and remember to have fun!
 
mty_xyz said:
....now how do you dirrect a dirrector LOL
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Make him realize that directing is much less about shots, lens juggling, pixel peeping or iron moving ..... but about creating a believable, funny, thrilling, erotic, mind boggling (whatever) chain of events. Its called the "mise-en-scene". This is directing. Amen.
 
While he is shooting his many takes it is important that back ground people like the waitress chink cutlery as lines are delivered and move about between takes, maybe have the radio on in the background, playing different tracks, keep the fridges on high to create atmospheric cafe like audio, I am seeing some great stuff with a coffee machine, the steam, those noises

Try and include clearly seen speaking lips in every shot - critical

Maybe have a take of an actor downing a pint of beer, shoot this six times, this will improve their performance

or maybe not :)
 
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I agree with the majority of what has been suggested, but it was a pretty easy slam-dunk to begin with!

I don't necessarily agree that an editor will always be the best person to direct a scene. Ideally, it's a director who understands how to shoot for the edit. What's more important than understanding the pieces of coverage is that the director know how to work with and guide the actors through the scene, how to shape the performances, how to find the funny. I'd personally rather work with a director who has that sensibility than one who mostly brings a technical understanding of filmmaking to the table, if given the choice, since I can provide the latter to them. Personally I think that all directors (and DP's for that matter) should be adept at the editing process, especially in the era of non-linear. When I suggest and subsequently line up coverage, I always create a cut in my mind to ensure that the pieces will flow together. As long as I have one version that works in my mind, a good editor will be able to find several more that may be better--but at least there is one solid way to achieve it!

That is an important aspect of making the scene work, but even more important is that the material actually plays well. Without proper guidance, you may end up with a piece that cuts together fine but isn't actually funny.

Two cameras will indeed help. I am curious why several here are so anti dual-cameras. Certainly the ability to use them appropriately is a skill like any other. The age-old wisdom that it compromises the lighting has been modified over the years as it is now de rigeur to use multiple cameras on many features and television (the term "single-camera comedy" almost always means two cameras). There are occasional compromises in eyelines and indeed times where there simply isn't room for the second camera, but overall it's a much more efficient way to work, and the notion of ending up with more pieces of coverage within a given timeframe makes a lot of sense. Again--you have to know how to use them. May be a good subject for its own post...
 
"it is important that back ground people like the waitress chink cutlery as lines are delivered and move about between takes, maybe have the radio on in the background, playing different tracks, keep the fridges on high to create atmospheric cafe like audio, I am seeing some great stuff with a coffee machine, the steam, those noises"

Is this serious? I had to read it a couple of times.

I would want to do the opposite and get perfectly clean dialogue with no background noise, especially loud refrigerators! Unplug everything!

You can add that crap back in later. You don't want crappy audio and impossible to cut dialogue because of clanking and footsteps and the rest. That leads to absolute nightmares. As for background music: Do you have the rights??????? All that stuff gets added later. How can you cut dialogue with a radio playing anyway? Nothing in the background would match when you cut to another take.

I would ask some audio people or editors about the above advice (if you're not going to take my word for it).
 
What has this guy direct in the past? I don't understand the reasoning behind his motives, but maybe he did some work that had to be done in a line by line manner. (unless your working with Marlon Brndow lol) Although I really cant think of anything that would require this type of technique, but that doesn't mean there isnt one. I usually shoot a master, I try to to go as wide as I can to establish the shot, then usually a two shot if just two people in the scene, then move in for coverage, I would go through the first actors lines, then match the shots for the second. What I mean by match is, if im doing an over the shoulder with a 50mm lens, I would match the shot from the other actors perspective with the same focal length. I wouldn't change to say an 85mm lens for the other actors lines. There are exceptions, but only if your going for intensity, like a slow push in, which creates that isolation or as I said intensity. Everyone above gave really good advice. I suggest following it.
 
"it is important that back ground people like the waitress chink cutlery as lines are delivered and move about between takes, maybe have the radio on in the background, playing different tracks, keep the fridges on high to create atmospheric cafe like audio, I am seeing some great stuff with a coffee machine, the steam, those noises"
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lol, haha. that made my morning. Still laughing my ass off. Heck I would even have them open the front door, and have a car outside rev the engine to give some good location sound.
 
mail4joeg said:
Is this serious? I had to read it a couple of times.
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It is indeed the opposite from serious .. :)

But hopefully highlighted, as you pointed out, some of the potential issues to a shoot of this nature.. using the outlined suggestion of one camera many takes
 
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I have run into this problem with a couple of inexperienced directors. What they are doing is confusing cutting order shots with on set set-ups. Bless their hearts, they have really done a ton of home work getting their cutting order shot list together, but can't translate that to how to get those shots with the requisite number of set-ups need on set; which I think is the primary technical skill that a director must have. When things get hairy on the shooting day they fall back on their cutting order shot list and have you jumping back and forth in cutting order sequence. I now make it my job, as DP, to set down with the director and his script/cutting order shot list and translate that to set ups. I make thumbnails of the set-ups in my script. If possible, having the editor, continuity person and AD in on those discussions is a good idea also. I agree that understanding editing is very important. I have done a good deal of editing, including editing two features, and it has helped me immensely. You need to set down with the director and have this discussion.
 
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