Sueing For Showing Wedding Montage

A

andybiz_2005

Well-known member
Hi friends,

I would like to seek all your opinion on a matter regarding showing a previous wedding couples' wedding video montage to clients in order to get future bookings.

Just today, I showed a couple's wedding video montage to a prospect couple who is considering booking our videography services for their wedding day in June 2006. The prospect couple mentioned that they know the bride in the wedding video montage & I did not specifically seek the couple's approval beforehand for permission to show their wedding video montage.

I would like to ask to whom does the copyright of the wedding video belong to. Does the copyright, & therefore the right to show our clients' montage belong to the videography company, or to the couple whom we gave their wedding video to? Does the videography company reserve the right to show video montages of wedding couples to future prospect couples?

In our company policy, we did not state in writing, or announce vebally to our prospects that we reserve the right to show their wedding video montage. Could our company be liable to be sued by these couples?

Please let me know as I hope that we have not made a costly mistake in showing couple's video montage without their permission. Thank you very much in advance.

Regards,

Andrew
 
This should all be in your contract. Additionally, you're certainly on shaky ground if you do not discuss the commercial use of their images in advance. Many contracts will specify this so that the customers have to specifically disallow it if they wish; and copyright is sometimes kept by the videographer...

Try and check out some of the web resources on contracts, or magazines (I think Vedeography or EventDV have covered this), or find a NOLO-style book... but definitely protect yourself with a good contract!
 
P.S. In software development, e.g., the rights to products of work performed under contract belong to the customer unless otherwise specified. I assume this is a general principle.

However, unless you're broadcasting this, or really raking it in, I doubt it would really be worth anyone's while to pursue it... but perhaps now you should at least write to everyone and kindly request their permission? Tell 'em they had an especially beautiful wedding and you'd like to show some of the footage to prospective clients. This will puff their egos a bit, hopefully they'll say yes. I wouldn't mention having shown used them already (except maybe in that one case where you know you were busted)...
 
Thank you all for your really helpful advice regarding this matter. As I'm still new to the videography business, I have to learn all I can at the same time protecting my business. I'll heed your advice. THanks again.

Andrew
 
Its actually a mine field. While the videographer generally retains the copyright, that only covers ownership of the work, not what you can/can't do with it. You run into privacy issues if you do not have an appearance release signed. Most people include it in their contract. But that really only covers whoever signs, not the other spouse, not the MOB, FOB, minister, band, other guests, etc...
 
Do a search on "work for hire." And once that scares the hell out of you, make sure you add these clauses to your contract. After explaining it to prospects, if you feel like the clause may lose you a specific job, then just offer to strike it out of that particular contract if you feel the job is more important that keeping some rights.
 
I am no lawyer, and a lawyer might tell you NOT to do something like this because you'd be incriminating yourself... But if I were you, in this case, I'd be mightly tempted to come clean: contact the couple, tell them you're a little new at this, that you showed their video to get more business, but now realize you shouldn't have without their explicit consent. Apologize. You'd be amazed at how well that can work. It's better they hear it from you than the other prospect you had. Also, it might depend on whether they liked your video. But again, don't take my advice, you need to make these decisions on your own.
 
Tainted said:
I am no lawyer, and a lawyer might tell you NOT to do something like this because you'd be incriminating yourself... But if I were you, in this case, I'd be mightly tempted to come clean: contact the couple, tell them you're a little new at this, that you showed their video to get more business, but now realize you shouldn't have without their explicit consent. Apologize. You'd be amazed at how well that can work. It's better they hear it from you than the other prospect you had. Also, it might depend on whether they liked your video. But again, don't take my advice, you need to make these decisions on your own.
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this may work if its your sister, or cousins , but doing this will just make it a bigger deal than it is. They probably have already found out, and if they have a problem they will call you. If they call go with the previous advice "I loved your wedding video so much I thought it was a great example of our work, if you prefer us to not use it we will be more than happy to take it out of our "best of" reel"...
 
sink said:
this may work if its your sister, or cousins , but doing this will just make it a bigger deal than it is. They probably have already found out, and if they have a problem they will call you. If they call go with the previous advice "I loved your wedding video so much I thought it was a great example of our work, if you prefer us to not use it we will be more than happy to take it out of our "best of" reel"...
Click to expand...

Fair enough, I'll by that advice. But as an aside, I have personally seen this approach work, but it also reminds me of a really interesting article I read once in the New York Times or Wall Street Journal about doctor's saying they were sorry for making a mistake. The article focused on how this could really have screwed the doctor over, and how the lawyers were totally against it, but that the facts observed suggested that it resulted in WAY LESS malpractice suites being opened in those conditions. Not sure if I would do it as a doctor, probably not because there is so much at stake, but it was an interested dilema/approach nonetheless. Under this scenario, I'm not sure about the worst case scenario, I mean what would the "damages" be based on anyway?
 
If you have a medical problem you don't go to an online forum for advice.
You go to a doctor.
If you have a legal question,----ask a lawyer.
Not trying to be a smartass,---but all the answers you get to your question here are likley guesses or uninformed opinion.
Find a lawyer who specializes in copywrite law.
He/she might even give you the advice for free.
But take heed to any hissing or slithering!!!
 
well if i hired your company to shoot a wedding .. and nowhere was it mentioned in the contract/agreement you would use MY wedding as promotional material etc. WE would have a BEEF and if you didn't STOP using it today i would ask a judge to issue a stop and decease order ...

and where does COPYRIGHT come up in a wedding video?? IMO this has nothing to do with copyright .. you were hired to do a wedding video .. you delivered a finish project .. so you can argue all you want on who owns copyright BUT what you probably don't have if you are claiming copyright are RELEASES from everyperson in the video .. so IMO forget trying to claim a copyright ( unless you have releases) and if you plan to use section of the wedding videos for promotion in the future put it in your agreement .. i would guess that 80% of couples would say YES ..
 
Considering you're probably not dealing with a couple of lawyers getting married what will probably at the worst happen is: You'll be sent a Cease and Desist letter. If you don't follow it, lawsuits will follow. Cease and Desist is free, and the route most individuals would like to follow.

Look at it from the wedding couple's perspective... would you ever want to go through the hastle of actually going to court over your wedding video?

I can't think of a wedding photographer who doesn't show clients their previous work. I think you're probably OK. But definietely put it in writing in the future.
 
I have standard clause in ALL my work that says I can use it for promotional and demonstration purposes, and that includes any work-for-hire that I do, or corporate work. It's easy to put in there, and no one ever challenges it. But in this case, I htink the "beg forgivness if challenged" route is what I would do.
 
Am I the only one who doesn't think this is a big deal?

Leave it alone - and change your contract.
If by some bizarre circumstance this couple calls you (which I seriously doubt they will) then just tell them you're sorry and don't do it again.

As long as you change your contract you won't have a problem with this in the future.

And consult an attorney about your contract.
A good one is worth every penny.
 
My F'n God. I would just be grateful that these people exposed themselves to be assholes before you got further involved with them. Why on Earth would someone be so uptight over nothing (the couple who knows the couple I mean). I could understand a couple, for whatever quirky reason within themselves, not wanting their wedding images shared publically (though I've not had any trouble with my couples), but these people just gasping and getting all serious because they know the couple in your sample and actually thought to call them up and be like "did you know he's using your footage as a sample?" or whatever they did to "know" that you hadn't specifically asked permission? What a couple of nerds. F them. I suppose you've already remedied this as I'm late to the party, but I sure hope you ran from them with all due haste.
 
Luis Caffesse said:
Am I the only one who doesn't think this is a big deal?

Leave it alone - and change your contract.
If by some bizarre circumstance this couple calls you (which I seriously doubt they will) then just tell them you're sorry and don't do it again.

As long as you change your contract you won't have a problem with this in the future.

And consult an attorney about your contract.
A good one is worth every penny.
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This seems like excellent advice to me. Did you show the couple samples of your work before you did THEIR wedding video? If so, was it another wedding video? If it was, don't you think they'd expect you to possilby use theirs?
 
I believe that, as a general legal matter, the plaintiff has to prove (and seek compensation for) damages.

If you were, for example, charging ten bucks a person to show a pirated copy of a commercial movie...the damages would be easy to prove. Lots of people could claim that you deprived them of income.

Or, if you had a scene of the wedding couple smoking pot, and sent copies to their bosses so they'd get fired...yes, there would be monetary damages at the very least.

But what harm has been done to them in the case of showing sample clips? And how would they assign a value to it, whatever "it" is?

I also agree with Donatello that this doesn't seem like a copyright matter. If I own a book, and show a paragraph to you, I haven't violated the copyright. Even if I read it to you and say, "This is a good explanation of how I'd handle your project, Mr. Prospective Client." I don't owe the publisher money for doing that, because the publisher isn't harmed by it.

A lawyer once told me that anyone can sue you for anything...it's a matter of whether they're likely to win.

However, as a client relations matter, it's always good to ask first!
 
What powerdog said.

If you didn't sell it, they have a piss-poor chance of winning a case and their lawyer will know it. This won't even make it to court because the judge will immediately throw it out. Even if you're cutting excerpts to put in a reel, then it's fair use -- especially since you did the work.

They sound like the kind of people who deliberately slam on their brakes at busy intersections, and then sue the people who hit them.

If it was me, I'd taunt them until they cry -- make them feel like the victims they want to feel like -- but that's why I don't do wedding videos.

But for the future put a clause in your contract to avoid this sort of thing.
 
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