Can you have a company's trademarks in your film w/o permission?

Alex DePew

Alex DePew

Señor Schmarty Pants
I want to put a Dunkin Donuts storefront in a shot. However I am worried that if I try to submit the film to festivals, or just show it anywhere, I would need to have Dunkin Donuts' permission to use their trademarked logo. I have done a few searches trying to find this information, but have been unable to find anything. If there is a lawyer on here or just someone who knows could you please clue me in. I know I may be being paranoid, but I don't have money to be sued by Dunkin Donuts and I don't want to have a film pulled because they say I can't use it.

Also, does this apply to other things as well? Just for general info if a guy is wearing an addidas logo on his shirt do I have to blur it out? Or is this normally done on television to appease potential advertisers?

Thanks for any help.
 
There are very simple fixes for things like this:

1) Change your frame so there is no dunkin donuts in it, problem solved. (I am actually being serious not being a jackass, just reframe.. so many people don't even think about it..)

2) Just pick up a shirt that is the same colour as the adidas one, sans logo.

I highly doubt Dunkin Donuts would sue you, let alone even care that you are making a film. The only way I think they would notice is if your film happend to be called something like "Don't buy Dunkin Donuts products cause they are made from rat turds" ... you get my drift..

as for festivals, some are picky others are not, depends on the scale of the festival.

Of course you can also just ask the owner of the store if it is ok.. he can probably get the OK from head office for you as well. If it is imperative that the dunkin donuts be in shot..
 
If this is a for fun project, no problem. If it's for broadcast or sale- you will likely get sued without the permission.

Noah
 
Why not just use a "mom & pop" donut shop? You are infinitely less likely
to ever catch flack for it ;)...plus they sometimes have a better look anyway
(especially the ones with a giant donut for a sign.)
 
NoahK said:
If this is a for fun project, no problem. If it's for broadcast or sale- you will likely get sued without the permission.

Noah
Click to expand...

Sued for what? It's not a trademark infringment to show it, only to use the name in such a way that it would confuse people, "dilute" the trademark, or denigrate it. (You're more likely to have problems if you feature a donut shop called Donkey Donuts, if it resembled Dunkin Donuts.)

The only real reason to not use trademarked items is afterward, when you distribute. In this case, it might be difficult to get Krispy Kreme to sponsor a film featuring Dunkin' Donuts.
 
GenJerDan said:
Sued for what?
Click to expand...


Corporations are treated as individuals by the law.
Dunkin Donuts could just as easily sue for including them in a film without their permission as you could if someone put a shot of you into their film without your permission.

No one is saying they would WIN the lawsuit - but isn't the point to stay out of court in the first place?

Take Callaghan's suggestions and use a 'Mom and Pop' shop - it's easier to get in touch with the owners (who may very well be the ones working), and it's generally easier to get permission. Get them a copy of the finished video, many small bussiness owners get excited at the prospect of seeing their location included in a movie.
 
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TheMacB, neat short (although it's a bit too long in the middle).
But, in the context of this thread, I doubt that any decent festival would accept it, assuming you don't have The Coca-Cola Company's approval.
 
Nonsense.

If it were true that you can't use logos without permission, you'd better make sure no one wears clothes (Calvin Klein might sue, Adidas might sue), drives a car (GM can afford better lawyers than you can), drinks beer out of recognizable bottle (label showing or not), uses a non-generic computer...
 
Next time you watch a major release film made in the U.S. I suggest you pay closer attention. You'll notice either: logos and labels displayed very prominently toward camera- that's product placement, or conveniently scratched off or turned away from camera. The latter is called dutching btw. Check out Walk the Line for great examples of this- in some shots the beer labels are even digitally obscured, though with subtlety.

Anyone who's ever had a film distributed in the U.S. and gone through the required errors and omissions process will tell you that no logos or trademarks are allowed to appear prominenly- though of course prominently leaves some grey area- without permission in writing. It is silly but silly won't save you when you get sued. Quite the opposite typically... More specifics and legalese here(specifically section 12):

http://www.piercegorman.com/Clearance_Procedures.html

Noah
 
GenJerDan said:
Nonsense.

If it were true that you can't use logos without permission, you'd better make sure no one wears clothes (Calvin Klein might sue, Adidas might sue), drives a car (GM can afford better lawyers than you can), drinks beer out of recognizable bottle (label showing or not), uses a non-generic computer...
Click to expand...


You're right actually - you should make sure no one is wearing a recognizable logo, you shouldn't shoot the model name or company logo of the car, make up your own beer bottle labels or turn them away from the camera, and cover that computer logo (like so many shows I've seen where a character puts some sort of 'cool' sticker conveniently over the Apple logo on their laptop).
 
If you plan for sale or distribution, there's a possibility of legal action. It will usually start with a cease a desist letter, then snowball. However, they will not waste the thousands of dollars suing you if it's a small time production that has no real impact. So, it's really up to you.

Do you think this film will become profitable? Then there's a chance of legal action, and yes, your film can be locked up in court for months, even years, it HAS happened before...but in your situation I would imagine you're fine. Just don't go making waves with a blockbuster ;)

These are the facts, I've discussed this with an entertainment attorney who deals with this all the time. It's actually pretty common knowledge in the industry.

Dissregard what Gen said, he's wrong (sorry Gen). The AD will ensure every lable is slightly changed or covered in EVERY shot. If one slips through the cracks it either gets whacked in editing, blurred or ends up in the production legal department for some crafty phone calls to the corporation.

It's all about money my friend. Dunkin Donuts and every other incorporated company has an image they would like to protect, regardless of the film's genre or plot.

When you DO see lables/logos in films it is because a deal was made with the company. There's a whole department that deals with 'product placement', and they work hand in hand with legal. There are also independent product placement companies that find product placement for films, helping cut down the overall cost of the production.


Money, money, money.

Carry on.
 
NoahK said:
Next time you watch a major release film made in the U.S. I suggest you pay closer attention. You'll notice either: logos and labels displayed very prominently toward camera- that's product placement, or conveniently scratched off or turned away from camera. The latter is called dutching btw. Check out Walk the Line for great examples of this- in some shots the beer labels are even digitally obscured, though with subtlety.

Anyone who's ever had a film distributed in the U.S. and gone through the required errors and omissions process will tell you that no logos or trademarks are allowed to appear prominenly- though of course prominently leaves some grey area- without permission in writing. It is silly but silly won't save you when you get sued. Quite the opposite typically... More specifics and legalese here(specifically section 12):

http://www.piercegorman.com/Clearance_Procedures.html

Noah
Click to expand...

Thanks so much! That sucks! You confirmed my fears. I guess I am not overly paranoid. This means that you are super limited in what can cross into your shot. Damn litigious society we live in.

I will steer clear of using Dunkin Donuts or other trademarked/copyrighted images, logos, artwork etc. Thanks CallaghanFilms, I'll look for a mom & pop donut shop. I wanted to get a DD that is right by my house that leads to a subway entrance. Oh well.
 
NoahK said:
Anyone who's ever had a film distributed in the U.S. and gone through the required errors and omissions process will tell you that no logos or trademarks are allowed to appear prominenly- though of course prominently leaves some grey area- without permission in writing. It is silly but silly won't save you when you get sued. Quite the opposite typically.

Noah
Click to expand...

Yep, always streamline your film so that you don't enter legal hell later.
 
adepew07 said:
I wanted to get a DD that is right by my house that leads to a subway entrance. Oh well.
Click to expand...

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater....it doesn't mean you can't shoot there - you just can't shoot anything that says 'Dunkin Donuts.'

You could possibly still get permission from whoever runs that location to shoot there - then you've always got the option of putting up your own made up shop sign, or painting out the 'Dunkin Donuts' in post.

I know, not ideal - but it is a possibility.
 
adepew07 said:
...Thanks CallaghanFilms, I'll look for a mom & pop donut shop...
Click to expand...
It'll probably make for a nicer shot & better feel anyway.
Try to find one plenty o' kitsch.
Good Luck with it.
beer.gif
 
alveraz said:
If you plan for sale or distribution, there's a possibility of legal action. It will usually start with a cease a desist letter, then snowball. However, they will not waste the thousands of dollars suing you if it's a small time production that has no real impact. So, it's really up to you.

Do you think this film will become profitable? Then there's a chance of legal action, and yes, your film can be locked up in court for months, even years, it HAS happened before...but in your situation I would imagine you're fine. Just don't go making waves with a blockbuster ;)

These are the facts, I've discussed this with an entertainment attorney who deals with this all the time. It's actually pretty common knowledge in the industry.

Dissregard what Gen said, he's wrong (sorry Gen). The AD will ensure every lable is slightly changed or covered in EVERY shot. If one slips through the cracks it either gets whacked in editing, blurred or ends up in the production legal department for some crafty phone calls to the corporation.

It's all about money my friend. Dunkin Donuts and every other incorporated company has an image they would like to protect, regardless of the film's genre or plot.

When you DO see lables/logos in films it is because a deal was made with the company. There's a whole department that deals with 'product placement', and they work hand in hand with legal. There are also independent product placement companies that find product placement for films, helping cut down the overall cost of the production.


Money, money, money.

Carry on.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. In general, does the company whose logo is being used pay for the product placement or does the movie pay to use it? I'm pretty sure I don't have the resources, time, attorney, knowledge, patience, desire to deal with a company to get them in my movie, it would just be good to know.
 
Luis Caffesse said:
cover that computer logo (like so many shows I've seen where a character puts some sort of 'cool' sticker conveniently over the Apple logo on their laptop).
Click to expand...

But I have seen tons of TV shows with the mac logo in plain sight. Also with cars, You can cover or not shoot the logo all you want but a Dodge Ram is still a Dodge Ram, A Trans Am is Still a Trans Am, A Corvette is still a Corvette, etc., etc., etc.

I've also heard that if it's in the public view it is fair game as long as you do not denegrate the logo.
 
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