RANT: "Indie" doesn't have to mean completely hand-held, right?

the-lyons-den.com said:
OK, ok, so it didn't really end up being a "RANT" but I wanted to get your attention, so I guess it worked...:rolleyes:
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Don't you hate it when people do things merely for attention... like shooting handheld? :cheesy: <--- What up with the non-functioning smilies?


Heh heh... this 'trend' seems cyclical in nature. I remember when I first worked as a production camera operator back in the late 1980's, there was lots of handheld stuff going on. Producers couldn't get enough of it as long as it was referred to as cinema verite'.
 
Sometimes the shaky-cam works for me, car-chases for example. They're running at 20 mph and the shaky-cam, engine sounds and music make it feel like 120 mph.

But Battlestar Gallactica went over the top. Unmotivated shaking and zooming in CG-Shots? Come on.
 
Terry_Lasater said:
Don't you hate it when people do things merely for attention... like shooting handheld? :cheesy:
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Good catch.

Terry_Lasater said:
this 'trend' seems cyclical in nature. I remember when I first worked as a production camera operator back in the late 1980's, there was lots of handheld stuff going on
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I had no idea, this is interesting...

MarcusX said:
Sometimes the shaky-cam works for me, car-chases for example. They're running at 20 mph and the shaky-cam, engine sounds and music make it feel like 120 mph.

But Battlestar Gallactica went over the top. Unmotivated shaking and zooming in CG-Shots? Come on.
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This is exactly what I'm talking about!

I wonder if this current trend, in these cases, partially comes down to buzz word "indie" and the low-budget feel that the style gives a Hollywood, oh sorry, I mean $15 million independent movie?
 
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There is a time and place for everything. I think that there is nothing wrong with the handheld approach when you want to convey a sense of intimacy during a scene or convey something about a characters perception. A lot of times though, especially using 24 as an example, it seems like it is just the 'in' thing to do and it bothers me as well. There is no reason for an entire project to be shot handheld, but there is plenty of reason to use it for a single shot during a scene to recapture your audience. It is just like a dolly, jib, or steadicam shot in my opinion. Good topic though.
 
It's a pastiche thing... we're in the middle of a throwback to '70s styles. Some of it goes over the top, some of it works. I'm sure I'll grow tired of it soon enough, but right now I'm a fan of Battlestar Galactica. I'm a fan of 24. I was a fan of Syriana and the Bourne Supremacy.

Quality products have always inspired talentless imitation. Something easy to imitate, while disregarding the other aspects that made what you're imitating great.
 
the-lyons-den.com said:
Since when did it become artistic to bob and weave during a very usual, very normal conversation? No arguing, no intensity, no chaos...just gabbing....
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Agree 100% - Way over used and out of place and IMHO, annoying.
 
the only time to use it is when its needed. but then again some people dont have tripods. so oh well. use it in tense situations. But i hate shooting handheld. Personally I rather shoot tripod and dolly. some people dont know how to shoot though and think thats the best way to go.
 
I hate also when people blame bad hand held and shots and focus problems on art. its not art it's ****.
 
Has anyone here watched "The Office" television series? It uses hand helds and sparatic zooms constantly. At first I thought it was so lame, but as I watched It kinda started to grow on me. I don't know for some reason I excuse it on that show. The story itself I can related and I find it really funny. Besides that I can't stand when shots are hand held, and they make sure that you notice it.
 
As I recall "Homicide: Life on the Streets" was full of this kind of shooting. It was too over the top in that respect for me. :eek:
 
J-Rey said:
Has anyone here watched "The Office" television series? It uses hand helds and sparatic zooms constantly. At first I thought it was so lame, but as I watched It kinda started to grow on me. I don't know for some reason I excuse it on that show. The story itself I can related and I find it really funny. Besides that I can't stand when shots are hand held, and they make sure that you notice it.
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Yeah, "The Office" is shot very much like the original BBC version was (I LOVE the original btw, the US one is coming into it's own, can't recommend the original British version enough though). This is a great example of handheld being used, I think, properly for the material.

The thing is that handheld style perfectly meets the voyeuristic/live recording/documentary/realistic feel that the show is supposed to have in this example. That has a purpose relating to the background story - a crew is let into this office to film the day-to-day going ons. So here it makes sense.

Let me also add a film coming out on DVD next week that I really dug and is all over the place stylistically: Domino. But again, I liked that one. It's all so colorful and crazy and doesn't sit still for a second, but I thought it fit the material and the character so I wasn't bothered in the least.
 
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"The Shield" as well.
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They still do it, though it seems they've toned it down "a bit" this season(or maybe I've just accomodated to it).

I also get a bit peeved by the graininess and blown out highlights on that show.

But in the end, I love the story, so I forgive the rest.
 
saved by beautiful poems

saved by beautiful poems

I have decided to no longer complain of any cinematic technique. Why? you ask, because I have found comfort in great poetry, and nothing else really matters once you read gems like this:

Seven leaves cling...

Seven leaves cling to the witch branches of the maple.
A week ago its leaves blazed, fiery as Irish hair.
Winter has claimed all but seven.​
 
I hadn't read the whole thread before I replied.

Personally, I like the hand-held look - much more than smooth and sculpted dolly, steadi (well, for most things), etc. While I don't think it's appropriate for everything (I've never seen the Bourne Supremacy), I think more shots than not - depending on the context of course - can be better by going hand-held rather than using more traditional hollywood technique.

In my previous post, I put it's naturalism vs. realism. Realism is a stylized portrayal of what we think is real - or what we think it should be. It's an interpretation. Naturalism is more 'real' because it includes flaws, it's less about interpretation and more about representation.

Yeah, I do think that it's currently a fad and in a lot of places way overused, and of course now you've got the whole group-think 'it's trendy so let's do it' thing. I do think hollywood-ish conventions have their place, but from my personal point of view, hand-held footage does more to lend credence to the idea that was you're seeing (regardless of whether it's fiction or non) is intended in some sort of reality.

I also think it's one of these - people who've invested time, talent, money into learning the 'proper' hollywood way of doing things get into a habit of dismissing other ideas rather than exploring. It's either intimidating (because they didn't think or do it first and aquired ego takes over), or it's way out there beyond the box and it's not 'safe' and subject to redicule, etc.

Either way, it has a place. Not liking it is fine with me :thumbup:

$.02
 
Okay, here I go. While I agree with much of the posts here, I have to say that my first endeavour with my camera was a short that I did with hand-held shots ala "Arrested Development" (and not just because I happen to work on the show--I was only a P.A. on it working on my Directors Guild Days).

1) I has just bought my camera and I only had my camera...no tripods, lights, etc.
2) I didn't want to wait until I had everything to start shooting this short that I was originally calling a "learning experience"---that isn't the title it was just my actual perpective on the project. There are always excuses not to start.
3) I decided to give the camera life and almost become one of the characters in the short...visible to only the lead.
4) look at one again.
5) Filming in L.A. can be dangerous. No time for permits either, and it's hard to run with my fat body and the dvx 100 from cops and robbers
6) I tried making it look as stable as I could at first but it seemed as though it wasn't working and gave it a more amateur vibe in the end (more than Hand-held). While I played with my "character cam" it also seemed to "talk" with it's movements i.e. the lead is talking to his mother and the mother is asking all these personal questions about a date he get's angry with her. He happens to be wearing a shirt that says Clobberin' Time so I pan down from a close up of his face on to the shirt and back up to him. People got the joke.
7) 6 was too long sorry.
8)Why am I feeling so guilty about this?????
9) I love this forum
10) Honestly, I felt under my circumstances it was the best way to go and it lent itself to the script. I do prefer stable shots on sticks most of the time, but when you are working on no-budget flicks you have to be creative and ask yourself what's best in this particular scenario.

Thanks,
Zev
p.s. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to chat with my therapist about this.
 
i prefer to shoot my own films hand-held. not to infuse them with "rawness" or "edge", but to give them less of a "contructed" feel. this aesthetic works for the type of films i make. i shoot as though the camera were a human eye. so sometimes an over the shoulder close-up drifts to that person's hand if they do something interesting with it, in the same way that my eyes might leave the face of a person i'm talking to in real life.

so, the less exact and precise the camerawork, the more organic and natural the piece feels to me, and hopefully, to my audience..
 
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