ahalpert
Major Contributor
I wouldn't take anything that Doug says personally. (Or seriously. (Just kidding. (Or am I?)))
Leave the World Behind
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I wouldn't take anything that Doug says personally. (Or seriously. (Just kidding. (Or am I?)))
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
Hey Aram, it's just a movie. And I don't care enough to go on and on any further. I've shared my opinion. Take it for what it is worth, or not, I don't care. Sounds like you have had a tough life and I wish you success overcoming your demons and prejudices.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
This is interesting. I looked up the director's explanation for the deer herd because it's the plot point I find most difficult to readily explain (although there could be some biological warfare influencing them that we don't know about.)
This makes a lot of sense to me and I think how much you enjoy it will depend on how much you connect with the characters and situation at the outset as well as how much you value cinema as a pure emotional and visual experience.
I really enjoyed the vibes and mood all the way through as well as the visuals both on a pure visceral level as well as on a metaphorical level. The cinematography, editing, music... it all added up for me.
Brilliant film. The debate surrounding it reminds me of the debate we had about Dunkirk. Dunkirk is a masterpiece. But some of its detractors quibbled over whether enough troops were shown on the beach and if they were firing the right way at the planes and this and that. Missing the forest for the trees.
In Dunkirk as in this film, the cinematography and editing and music all worked in synchrony to give me a depth of feeling I rarely experience from watching movies.
https://screenrant.com/leave-the-wor...g%20is%20wrong.
This makes a lot of sense to me and I think how much you enjoy it will depend on how much you connect with the characters and situation at the outset as well as how much you value cinema as a pure emotional and visual experience.
I really enjoyed the vibes and mood all the way through as well as the visuals both on a pure visceral level as well as on a metaphorical level. The cinematography, editing, music... it all added up for me.
Brilliant film. The debate surrounding it reminds me of the debate we had about Dunkirk. Dunkirk is a masterpiece. But some of its detractors quibbled over whether enough troops were shown on the beach and if they were firing the right way at the planes and this and that. Missing the forest for the trees.
In Dunkirk as in this film, the cinematography and editing and music all worked in synchrony to give me a depth of feeling I rarely experience from watching movies.
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
Thanks for the info, Abe. I rest my case. When a filmmaker just comes right out and admits they just threw around a lot of bullshit with no possible way of it making sense, that is the very definition of a moronic movie. What a waste of time.
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
It turns out my earlier analysis of this turd was EXACTLY correct.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
No, even dreams have logic. Meaning in the symbols and things that are close to reality but slightly off. And they can reveal to us our true feelings.
The characters I thought were more realistic and had more depth than what I see in most movies. That largely grounded it for me. The only exception was Ali's character who i thought was unusually good-natured. (Although he may have kept the other family around for the sake of strength in numbers.)
The mood worked for me on a scene by scene basis, as it did in Dunkirk. It flowed really nicely and the director was in control of my emotional evolution.
And there was a lot of political significance in the visuals and scenarios. People sitting on the beach watching an oil tanker come at them and doing nothing about it is basically what's happening with climate change. We can all see it coming but the reality is so inconceivable and painful to grapple with, and we're so used to our broader society dealing with big problems that we take it for granted that someone will prevent it. Only the young girl is properly alarmed.
Similar thing with the deer and flamingos. Nature not behaving as it should. Like it's been 50 degrees most of December in NY. We haven't had appreciable snowfall in like 2 years. My backyard is vibrant with wildlife.
Or the Hispanic woman begging for help and us ignoring her. Like those refugees streaming north from Venezuela and we're just trying to figure out how to keep them out.
The US is under attack in the movie and there's a long list of possible culprits because we've made enemies all over the world. Hawke is terrified of a drone flying overhead like people have been terrified of our drones all over the world.
Our society is so dog eat dog, every man for himself, if you don't have health insurance you should die, so when someone reaches out to you for help you reach for your gun.
And through it all we watch our shows, drink our Starbucks and cocktails, retreat to our fantasy worlds and drugs so we don't have to confront reality or interact with our increasingly inhospitable neighbors.
There was a lot of truth in the movie for me. My biggest critique was that they stated the theme so explicitly when Ali told Hawke that this sort of attack would only work on a country if it was already internally divided. I thought he was going to turn to the camera after that and say "THIS WAS THE POINT OF THE MOVIE" or even "VOTE BIDEN 2024." By the way, did people notice that Obama was an EP? Apparently he liked the book and had some involvement in the project.
Good people are all around you. You just have to open your eyes to them.
jmone
Well-known member
Ahhh, maybe that why it resonates so deeply with Abe. It taps all the current TEOTWAWKI bullet points. Climate Change, Refuges, War, Degradation of Community, Racism, Heath Insurance Vs apathy and ignorance.
Every generation has, has had, and will have TEOTWAWKI fears. You kids will be out of their mind about some other TEOTWAWKI threat.
Nice work that they managed to hit these fears for that demographic.
Every generation has, has had, and will have TEOTWAWKI fears. You kids will be out of their mind about some other TEOTWAWKI threat.
Nice work that they managed to hit these fears for that demographic.
jmone
Well-known member
Abe, I'm not sure if this meant as a generality but if you are referring to your situation you should have a chat to someone outside your current circle. This is not a great sign on how to deal with these issues.
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
Yes, you hit the nail on the head. It plays into the fears and phobias of a certain demographic, which I do not belong. It would be interesting to see the movie rated by age of the viewer.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
oh that gave me a laugh
ahalpert
Major Contributor
probably about 10-20% of people are actually concerned with behaving virtuously
I mean, in another thread we had on the topic of health insurance, Doug quoted Jurassic Park and said he didn't blame other people for making mistakes but he did expect them to pay for them. This was in the context of how people who didn't shell out for quality health insurance should suffer the consequences if their health fails. How is that different from any character in this film choosing not to help out anyone else asking for help?
And Roberts' point about hating people because they screw each other over? I mean....yeah... There are people out there who will call you a moron just because you like a movie they didn't like. That's the kind of world we live in
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Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
I'm glad I'm not that jaded. How do you get up in the morning and face the day when you think 80%-90% of people you meet are out to **** you?
Now we see why the movie appeals to you. Clearly it feeds your prejudices, fears, and phobias and are willing to overlook all the other dumb stuff in order to get your fix.
As Aram would say, YOU have the right values to enjoy this movie.
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ahalpert
Major Contributor
I've never heard that term before. But I feel like your post here is pretty characteristic of the head-in-the-sand mentality that the film critiques.
Do I expect "a catastrophic event that destroys the existing institutions and norms of society," as the term is defined? No. Not at all.
But all the issues you listed are clear and present dangers that we're currently dealing with. To suggest otherwise is laughable
ahalpert
Major Contributor
I'm glad I'm not that naive. Most people make most decisions primarily on the basis of self-interest, and the appearance of virtue is only used to serve that goal.
I remember reading a quote from some holocaust survivor who said that about 10% of Germans were willing to do the right thing, 10% were total sadists who were the worst of humanity, and the other 80% would just go where the wind blew.
This made me smile. It's strange to me that it's so difficult for people to understand.
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
If that is aimed at me, when did I call anyone on this thread a moron?
As for your comment about health insurance costs, it is no different than any other expense that everyone faces in modern society. Do you also expect other people to pay for your food, clothes, water, gasoline, heating, car insurance, etc. It's just a part of life. Shop for a better deal if you don't like what you see. Grow up and stop whining.
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
And you're different? You beleive you're better than the rest of the 90% because you don't put your self-interest ahead of the collective good? God bless you. I nominate you for sainthood. I hope your kids surive your reckless attitude.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
well, at least 2 people on this thread liked the movie and you said it was a movie made for morons. am I missing something?
people don't die if they can't afford car insurance. and we provide food stamps for people if they can't afford to eat.
Hell, the Coast Guard spent over $1M searching for the submersible that imploded on a trip to the Titanic. The official from the Coast Guard said, "As a matter of U.S. law and Coast Guard policy, the Coast Guard doesn't charge for search and rescue, nor do we associate a cost with human life."
As a general rule, we come together as a society to save the lives of our fellow citizens. It's really just a matter of how much we're willing to give and spend from each and for each citizen. Where people draw the line will vary based on personal beliefs, etc.
Tom said that "good people are all around you. you just have to open your eyes to them." and that's what I was responding to cynically.
It's not that I disagree with him. In fact, I tend to take a very optimistic view of people, or at least the same view that I take of children -- they have better angels that you simply need to nurture.
But my observation, especially from US political debates, is that people will get really nasty and sadistic and vindictive really quickly when they feel that their interests are threatened or that they can no longer afford to be generous. So basically, they're good people until the chips are down. And generally, they value their own comfort and luxury over the basic necessities of their fellow citizens, to say nothing of foreigners.
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ahalpert
Major Contributor
I don't believe I ever said that I was fundamentally different. I would say that I'm marginally more generous than some.
But I don't even need people to be saintly. I just don't want them to be demons. People are sadistic. They like to blow people up, to torture them. They do it gratuitously and it brings them joy. People used to picnic at lynchings in America. At a bare minimum, we should not cause harm to innocent people nor take pleasure from it. And the fact that we cause so much harm and do it with so much glee and people who otherwise seem quite good and civil will lead that charge... it's depressing and frightening.
I've heard boomers explicitly say that they don't really care about climate change because they'll be dead before the worst effects are felt.