Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Where to go to school?
Magnus speaks wisdom.
Magnus speaks wisdom.
Where to go to school?
- Thread starter Zach Lien
- Start date
Re: Where to go to school?
Yeah. Let's hope someone posts a clip without a gun sometime soon . . . :-/
Yeah. Let's hope someone posts a clip without a gun sometime soon . . . :-/
Re: Where to go to school?
[quote author=Magnus Helander link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=45#59 date=07/07/04 at 09:18:33]
It seems to me that unless you have seen a lot of films (as in... thousands ) which you can work from your first film will - most likely - not be very good. If you can get an experienced mentor which will guide you through the process, that's another story...
[/quote]
Ah, but the subject I was addressing was about going to school, i.e., to learn, and not about making a good first movie.
While my paraphrasing of Tarantino was intended to be tongue-in-cheek, I've heard other film makers echo essentially the same philosophy: If you manage to complete any full-length feature project, no matter how horrid the end result, the lessons learned from the inevitable hundreds, or thousands, of mistakes might roughly equate to the lessons learned in film school (emphasis on "might", actual mileage may vary ;D).
BTW, Tarantino's first film, My Best Friend's Wedding, was by all accounts pretty bad, so obviously even viewing thousands of films isn't necessarily the key to making a great first movie.
[quote author=Magnus Helander link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=45#59 date=07/07/04 at 09:18:33]
It seems to me that unless you have seen a lot of films (as in... thousands ) which you can work from your first film will - most likely - not be very good. If you can get an experienced mentor which will guide you through the process, that's another story...
[/quote]
Ah, but the subject I was addressing was about going to school, i.e., to learn, and not about making a good first movie.
While my paraphrasing of Tarantino was intended to be tongue-in-cheek, I've heard other film makers echo essentially the same philosophy: If you manage to complete any full-length feature project, no matter how horrid the end result, the lessons learned from the inevitable hundreds, or thousands, of mistakes might roughly equate to the lessons learned in film school (emphasis on "might", actual mileage may vary ;D).
BTW, Tarantino's first film, My Best Friend's Wedding, was by all accounts pretty bad, so obviously even viewing thousands of films isn't necessarily the key to making a great first movie.
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Re: Where to go to school?
I think the key to making great movies is to make movies. As many as you can and as often as you can. And even then, lets hope the talent is there.
I think the key to making great movies is to make movies. As many as you can and as often as you can. And even then, lets hope the talent is there.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Where to go to school?
[quote author=PaulK link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=60#62 date=07/07/04 at 21:53:27]
If you manage to complete any full-length feature project, no matter how horrid the end result, the lessons learned from the inevitable hundreds, or thousands, of mistakes might roughly equate to the lessons learned in film school
[/quote]
Agree. And you will know that you're made of the right stuff if you manage to complete a feature, something filmschool may not...
[quote author=PaulK link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=60#62 date=07/07/04 at 21:53:27]
BTW, Tarantino's first film, My Best Friend's Wedding, was by all accounts pretty bad, so obviously even viewing thousands of films isn't necessarily the key to making a great first movie.
[/quote]
So, we can agree on that the first movie will suck, and then it's how you move on which matters. New Thread: What to do when you have completed your first feature
Thak you for a very interesting discussion...
we just came back from shooting an indian restaurant with DVXuser member Johan Lundberg as DOP. Green and red curry, chili, naan breads and a DVX100
Here is some cinnamon...
[quote author=PaulK link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=60#62 date=07/07/04 at 21:53:27]
If you manage to complete any full-length feature project, no matter how horrid the end result, the lessons learned from the inevitable hundreds, or thousands, of mistakes might roughly equate to the lessons learned in film school
[/quote]
Agree. And you will know that you're made of the right stuff if you manage to complete a feature, something filmschool may not...
[quote author=PaulK link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=60#62 date=07/07/04 at 21:53:27]
BTW, Tarantino's first film, My Best Friend's Wedding, was by all accounts pretty bad, so obviously even viewing thousands of films isn't necessarily the key to making a great first movie.
[/quote]
So, we can agree on that the first movie will suck, and then it's how you move on which matters. New Thread: What to do when you have completed your first feature
Thak you for a very interesting discussion...
we just came back from shooting an indian restaurant with DVXuser member Johan Lundberg as DOP. Green and red curry, chili, naan breads and a DVX100
Here is some cinnamon...
Slapdragon
Well-known member
Re: Where to go to school?
[quote author=John Hudson link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=60#63 date=07/07/04 at 22:43:12]I think the key to making great movies is to make movies. As many as you can and as often as you can. And even then, lets hope the talent is there. [/quote]
I have been hired to start an Electronic Media / Film program. Very small, it will hopefully accept most junior college credit and include writing, business, as well and creative. I have just started working toward the technology side also. Guess which camera will be the mainstay?
[quote author=John Hudson link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=60#63 date=07/07/04 at 22:43:12]I think the key to making great movies is to make movies. As many as you can and as often as you can. And even then, lets hope the talent is there. [/quote]
I have been hired to start an Electronic Media / Film program. Very small, it will hopefully accept most junior college credit and include writing, business, as well and creative. I have just started working toward the technology side also. Guess which camera will be the mainstay?
Re: Where to go to school?
[quote author=Magnus Helander link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=60#64 date=07/08/04 at 13:14:32]
So, we can agree on that the first movie will suck, and then it's how you move on which matters. New Thread: What to do when you have completed your first feature
[/quote]
Hehe.... yes, that would be a good one. ;D
Nice close-up, btw. I just got my DVX an hour ago. I can't wait to see what it can do.
[quote author=Magnus Helander link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=60#64 date=07/08/04 at 13:14:32]
So, we can agree on that the first movie will suck, and then it's how you move on which matters. New Thread: What to do when you have completed your first feature
[/quote]
Hehe.... yes, that would be a good one. ;D
Nice close-up, btw. I just got my DVX an hour ago. I can't wait to see what it can do.
Re: Where to go to school?
I think this may be one of the best/most interesting post i have read on here since i first started coming. Being a film student at Temple University in Philadelphia, this is an extremely interesting post. I have lately started to realize some of the truths about film school. I have learned that to a creation degree it doesn’t matter where you go to school. I also have realized if you dont have the drive or skills, no matter where you went to school, you aren’t going to make. I see kids in my classes who only seem to do film projects to fulfill class projects, not because they want too. It’s a real shame. I just understand why they are there.
Realizing all this I have decided to start trying to build up my demo reel. I'll been working on numerous projects outside of school (either video or photography) and trying to get my work screened. A few friends and I are also working on pre production for a feature length documentary. Is it going to be good and go anywhere? Who knows? All I know is that I’m sure I’ll learn so much from attempting to do it.
But I do think even if I could find a job, I would still finish school because the reason I’m at Temple is for the education, not so much the film.
So far most of the stuff I have learned film wise, is stuff I have already learned from projects I have been working on outside of class. But I realize the importances of learning more then just film. I want to be a well-rounded person, partly because I’m really interested in doing documentary work. That’s also part of the reason I didn’t want to go to an "art" school for film. I wanted to take classes in other areas, well that and also the fact I couldn’t afford NYU or any of those schools.
Anyway I thought I would just share my point of view as a film student. But once again, they is a great post.
I think this may be one of the best/most interesting post i have read on here since i first started coming. Being a film student at Temple University in Philadelphia, this is an extremely interesting post. I have lately started to realize some of the truths about film school. I have learned that to a creation degree it doesn’t matter where you go to school. I also have realized if you dont have the drive or skills, no matter where you went to school, you aren’t going to make. I see kids in my classes who only seem to do film projects to fulfill class projects, not because they want too. It’s a real shame. I just understand why they are there.
Realizing all this I have decided to start trying to build up my demo reel. I'll been working on numerous projects outside of school (either video or photography) and trying to get my work screened. A few friends and I are also working on pre production for a feature length documentary. Is it going to be good and go anywhere? Who knows? All I know is that I’m sure I’ll learn so much from attempting to do it.
But I do think even if I could find a job, I would still finish school because the reason I’m at Temple is for the education, not so much the film.
So far most of the stuff I have learned film wise, is stuff I have already learned from projects I have been working on outside of class. But I realize the importances of learning more then just film. I want to be a well-rounded person, partly because I’m really interested in doing documentary work. That’s also part of the reason I didn’t want to go to an "art" school for film. I wanted to take classes in other areas, well that and also the fact I couldn’t afford NYU or any of those schools.
Anyway I thought I would just share my point of view as a film student. But once again, they is a great post.
Slapdragon
Well-known member
Re: Where to go to school?
[quote author=watson link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=60#67 date=07/08/04 at 21:14:22]But I realize the importances of learning more then just film. I want to be a well-rounded person, partly because I’m really interested in doing documentary work. That’s also part of the reason I didn’t want to go to an "art" school for film. I wanted to take classes in other areas, well that and also the fact I couldn’t afford NYU or any of those schools.
[/quote]
This is very wise. A documentarian has to know a lot about a lot, or else what do they create? And they have to know how to learn. Although I like Patterson, and the program at British Columbia is excellent, and I am sure there are others, I have always thought that one should go to the place where they can 1) find a mentor and 2) learn everything they can about everything. Everything else is secondary.
With my students, they are only limited by what they want to do and how much gumption they have. One of my best students spent a year eeking out time on every editor and every camera he could, and produced some great work. The next year, as a reward for proving himself, I essentially gave him 24/7 access to his own G5 (shared with two other students, each of which had keys) and permission to use a Panasonic AG-D700 camera for as long as he wanted whenever he wanted (as long as he reserved it ahead of time). When I was asked why Adam got the special treatment, I offered to do the same for that student, if they did the work to prove themselves also.
[quote author=watson link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=60#67 date=07/08/04 at 21:14:22]But I realize the importances of learning more then just film. I want to be a well-rounded person, partly because I’m really interested in doing documentary work. That’s also part of the reason I didn’t want to go to an "art" school for film. I wanted to take classes in other areas, well that and also the fact I couldn’t afford NYU or any of those schools.
[/quote]
This is very wise. A documentarian has to know a lot about a lot, or else what do they create? And they have to know how to learn. Although I like Patterson, and the program at British Columbia is excellent, and I am sure there are others, I have always thought that one should go to the place where they can 1) find a mentor and 2) learn everything they can about everything. Everything else is secondary.
With my students, they are only limited by what they want to do and how much gumption they have. One of my best students spent a year eeking out time on every editor and every camera he could, and produced some great work. The next year, as a reward for proving himself, I essentially gave him 24/7 access to his own G5 (shared with two other students, each of which had keys) and permission to use a Panasonic AG-D700 camera for as long as he wanted whenever he wanted (as long as he reserved it ahead of time). When I was asked why Adam got the special treatment, I offered to do the same for that student, if they did the work to prove themselves also.
J_Barnes
Veteran
Re: Where to go to school?
[quote author=watson link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=60#67 date=07/08/04 at 21:14:22]But I do think even if I could find a job, I would still finish school because the reason I’m at Temple is for the education, not so much the film.
[/quote]
Is Temple still using those CP16's?
One of the worst nights of my life was spent up in Philly standing calf-deep in snow, dragging babys up and down the block and freezing my arse off for someone else's student film. Sometime around four in the morning I found myself angrily shivering as four Temple students stood around a film camera, scratching their heads and trying to figure out how to stop the damn thing from squeaking while it was running.
It took them forever to diagnose the rubber band linking the motor and the magazine as the source of the offending noise. I finally had to step in when one of them suggested using petroleum jelly to lubricate the rubber parts.
Leave it to the gaffer to solve the camera department’s problems.
[quote author=watson link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=60#67 date=07/08/04 at 21:14:22]But I do think even if I could find a job, I would still finish school because the reason I’m at Temple is for the education, not so much the film.
[/quote]
Is Temple still using those CP16's?
One of the worst nights of my life was spent up in Philly standing calf-deep in snow, dragging babys up and down the block and freezing my arse off for someone else's student film. Sometime around four in the morning I found myself angrily shivering as four Temple students stood around a film camera, scratching their heads and trying to figure out how to stop the damn thing from squeaking while it was running.
It took them forever to diagnose the rubber band linking the motor and the magazine as the source of the offending noise. I finally had to step in when one of them suggested using petroleum jelly to lubricate the rubber parts.
Leave it to the gaffer to solve the camera department’s problems.
Slapdragon
Well-known member
Re: Where to go to school?
[quote author=J_Barnes link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=60#69 date=07/09/04 at 12:08:22]
I finally had to step in when one of them suggested using petroleum jelly to lubricate the rubber parts.
[/quote]
Knowing professors, this was more of a suggestion on how to get that old butt plug back into position, and not to silence the camera.
[quote author=J_Barnes link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=60#69 date=07/09/04 at 12:08:22]
I finally had to step in when one of them suggested using petroleum jelly to lubricate the rubber parts.
[/quote]
Knowing professors, this was more of a suggestion on how to get that old butt plug back into position, and not to silence the camera.
J_Barnes
Veteran
Re: Where to go to school?
[quote author=Slapdragon link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=60#70 date=07/09/04 at 14:14:31]
Knowing professors, this was more of a suggestion on how to get that old butt plug back into position, and not to silence the camera.[/quote]
It's rare that someone can make me laugh sitting in a room alone, reading technical bulletin boards.
Cheers.
The memory about the temple student film made me reflect on all of the tidbits of information I’ve picked up along the way. The tiny bits of knowledge that I’ve kept in my bag of tricks waiting for the day they could finally be used. You’d think that the cheap fixes for hugely expensive pieces of equipment would be the most valuable, but I’ve rarely ever gotten to implement that knowledge, while the most hair brained and simple fixes for common problems have been used over and over again.
A long time ago I read some fly-by-night production book where they mentioned that they’d used cornstarch to silence the rubber wheels of a homemade skateboard dolly on it’s metal tracks. Every production I’ve been on since then has kept a can of lemon pledge next to the dolly, and despite it’s religious use, not once has it ever worked to silence the tracks.
I know that a light dash of cornstarch, foot powder, or talcum powder reduces the tack of rubber, thus silencing the squeak. While it’s not a particularly challenging bit of technical knowledge, it’s now saved no less then six productions after squeaking rubber had halted the day.
Veering the discussion back to the subject, I suppose that’s why I tend to be biased against film schools.
The people that have gained their knowledge in the same classrooms, with the same classmates, under the guidance of the same teachers, are all learning essentially the same body of knowledge. By associating and learning with a body of people who are on the same level of experience and exposure, they don’t really get the opportunity to learn the little tricks that really save the day.
It’s great to understand the threading pattern of six different 16mm cameras without referring to your ACM, but it’s also just as valuable to watch a crusty old DP use colored hairspray to bring down the flare of a barebulb in frame. It’s valuable to understand that you can use a butterfly outside a second story window to tame the FCs coming into the interior, but it’s a different thing to watch a grip fly it up and secure it in 30 mph coastal winds with tricky sailor knots and sandbag counterweights.
It’s great to understand that certain kinds of light has a certain color temperature, but I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen students and graduates of film school stare at their CTMs in disbelief as it reads 10000K+ when they’re expecting a pure 5600K.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that experience will save your tail more often then anything you pick up in film school, and the kind of experience you get out in production is completely different then the kind of experience you get working on student projects.
I don’t want to pound a nail in the coffin of film schools, but it’s important for people to understand that they’re only getting half an education in school, and it’s really up to you to complete your learning in the field.
I say complete as if we’re ever done learning!
No matter how you attempt to get in this business, whether it comes from slaving as an uneducated PA, or from slaving as an educated PA...if you approach each day with the hope and expectation of learning something new, you will actually learn something new each day. Growing your body of knowledge is important, but the attitude of openness to learning is just as important in getting you employed.
I think you have to know it all, without being a know-it-all, and that will make people excited to work with you. In the end, having people excited at the prospect of working with you is the only way to be successful in this industry.
[quote author=Slapdragon link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=60#70 date=07/09/04 at 14:14:31]
Knowing professors, this was more of a suggestion on how to get that old butt plug back into position, and not to silence the camera.
[/quote]It's rare that someone can make me laugh sitting in a room alone, reading technical bulletin boards.
Cheers.
The memory about the temple student film made me reflect on all of the tidbits of information I’ve picked up along the way. The tiny bits of knowledge that I’ve kept in my bag of tricks waiting for the day they could finally be used. You’d think that the cheap fixes for hugely expensive pieces of equipment would be the most valuable, but I’ve rarely ever gotten to implement that knowledge, while the most hair brained and simple fixes for common problems have been used over and over again.
A long time ago I read some fly-by-night production book where they mentioned that they’d used cornstarch to silence the rubber wheels of a homemade skateboard dolly on it’s metal tracks. Every production I’ve been on since then has kept a can of lemon pledge next to the dolly, and despite it’s religious use, not once has it ever worked to silence the tracks.
I know that a light dash of cornstarch, foot powder, or talcum powder reduces the tack of rubber, thus silencing the squeak. While it’s not a particularly challenging bit of technical knowledge, it’s now saved no less then six productions after squeaking rubber had halted the day.
Veering the discussion back to the subject, I suppose that’s why I tend to be biased against film schools.
The people that have gained their knowledge in the same classrooms, with the same classmates, under the guidance of the same teachers, are all learning essentially the same body of knowledge. By associating and learning with a body of people who are on the same level of experience and exposure, they don’t really get the opportunity to learn the little tricks that really save the day.
It’s great to understand the threading pattern of six different 16mm cameras without referring to your ACM, but it’s also just as valuable to watch a crusty old DP use colored hairspray to bring down the flare of a barebulb in frame. It’s valuable to understand that you can use a butterfly outside a second story window to tame the FCs coming into the interior, but it’s a different thing to watch a grip fly it up and secure it in 30 mph coastal winds with tricky sailor knots and sandbag counterweights.
It’s great to understand that certain kinds of light has a certain color temperature, but I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen students and graduates of film school stare at their CTMs in disbelief as it reads 10000K+ when they’re expecting a pure 5600K.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that experience will save your tail more often then anything you pick up in film school, and the kind of experience you get out in production is completely different then the kind of experience you get working on student projects.
I don’t want to pound a nail in the coffin of film schools, but it’s important for people to understand that they’re only getting half an education in school, and it’s really up to you to complete your learning in the field.
I say complete as if we’re ever done learning!
No matter how you attempt to get in this business, whether it comes from slaving as an uneducated PA, or from slaving as an educated PA...if you approach each day with the hope and expectation of learning something new, you will actually learn something new each day. Growing your body of knowledge is important, but the attitude of openness to learning is just as important in getting you employed.
I think you have to know it all, without being a know-it-all, and that will make people excited to work with you. In the end, having people excited at the prospect of working with you is the only way to be successful in this industry.
Slapdragon
Well-known member
Re: Where to go to school?
As a professor sans butt plug who is now starting a media program at a college that did not have one before, I actually agree with you.
So what do you get out of college?
1) A basic understanding of how to operate in a technological society, and its dimensions, problems, and possibilities. This assumes you understand why you are taking all of those history, political science, biology, and sociology courses. If those classes are stupid hurdles to be jumped and run past, then of course college is a waste of time. Let me put it this way, if you spend a year with a 55 year-old key grip who could not drink when he made his first feature, and you decide not to watch and learn from that key, instead spending your time soldiering up combo stands and moving sand bags because it is your job, then you are wasting your opportunity, and do not understand what it is in the first place. College is the same way.
2) The chance to work outside of the box before the industry puts you in one. This may sound trite, but the first time I got to do a balls to the wall, outright creative piece was in college. In the industry, I put up video wallpaper and convinced people to buy cubic zirconia and women's underwear, root for the Braves, or learn how to handle the prosecution of a terrorist. I do not apologize for this because I made a lot of money, learned a lot of things, and had a great time. But in college, I was able to have access to the equipment to make a visual poetry peice set to gregorian and ambrosian chants, to do a set of oral histories on museum curating and technology, and to in general do all the cool things I never could justify while I was free-lance or full-time.
3) True mentorship. Although I was lucky at age 17 to have a mentor in the form of a Brazilian director and producer, most people never get to have a mentor, the industry just is not that way. In addition, it is hard to subsume yourself in modern society and say, "I am the grasshopper, you are the enlightened being." But in college, IF you have the gumption to seek one out, you can have a mentor who is not only paid to work with you, but loves to have someone come to them hungry to learn. The trick is finding the right mentor at the right school and running with it.
4) Access to equipment. The equipment is not free, you pay your tuition, but if you go to the right school you get way more than you pay for. Here is why: at any college, equipment should be purchased based on how many students use it. For example, I am purchasing two DVX100a cameras to support the first ten students in our program, and will have two nonlinear editors, one high end, one low end, along with firewire hard drived (shared, 2 students per drive) and a steadicam. But of those ten students I expect in the first year, how many will be gung ho, and how many will be ho hum? If 50% are gung ho, then you get all that much more access to the equipment.
As a professor sans butt plug who is now starting a media program at a college that did not have one before, I actually agree with you.
So what do you get out of college?
1) A basic understanding of how to operate in a technological society, and its dimensions, problems, and possibilities. This assumes you understand why you are taking all of those history, political science, biology, and sociology courses. If those classes are stupid hurdles to be jumped and run past, then of course college is a waste of time. Let me put it this way, if you spend a year with a 55 year-old key grip who could not drink when he made his first feature, and you decide not to watch and learn from that key, instead spending your time soldiering up combo stands and moving sand bags because it is your job, then you are wasting your opportunity, and do not understand what it is in the first place. College is the same way.
2) The chance to work outside of the box before the industry puts you in one. This may sound trite, but the first time I got to do a balls to the wall, outright creative piece was in college. In the industry, I put up video wallpaper and convinced people to buy cubic zirconia and women's underwear, root for the Braves, or learn how to handle the prosecution of a terrorist. I do not apologize for this because I made a lot of money, learned a lot of things, and had a great time. But in college, I was able to have access to the equipment to make a visual poetry peice set to gregorian and ambrosian chants, to do a set of oral histories on museum curating and technology, and to in general do all the cool things I never could justify while I was free-lance or full-time.
3) True mentorship. Although I was lucky at age 17 to have a mentor in the form of a Brazilian director and producer, most people never get to have a mentor, the industry just is not that way. In addition, it is hard to subsume yourself in modern society and say, "I am the grasshopper, you are the enlightened being." But in college, IF you have the gumption to seek one out, you can have a mentor who is not only paid to work with you, but loves to have someone come to them hungry to learn. The trick is finding the right mentor at the right school and running with it.
4) Access to equipment. The equipment is not free, you pay your tuition, but if you go to the right school you get way more than you pay for. Here is why: at any college, equipment should be purchased based on how many students use it. For example, I am purchasing two DVX100a cameras to support the first ten students in our program, and will have two nonlinear editors, one high end, one low end, along with firewire hard drived (shared, 2 students per drive) and a steadicam. But of those ten students I expect in the first year, how many will be gung ho, and how many will be ho hum? If 50% are gung ho, then you get all that much more access to the equipment.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Where to go to school?
[quote author=Slapdragon link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=60#72 date=07/10/04 at 08:38:57]
4) Access to equipment. The equipment is not free, you pay your tuition, but if you go to the right school you get way more than you pay for. [/quote]
And... access to insurance, in New York City you will no be able to shoot on location without a liability insurance, as an independent you can most liklely not afford one, and I don't think any company will issue you one, but NYU has arrangements to get a $1m liability insurance for grand/undergrad crews through the university - a lot of grads are there for this reason alone...
/magnus
[quote author=Slapdragon link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=60#72 date=07/10/04 at 08:38:57]
4) Access to equipment. The equipment is not free, you pay your tuition, but if you go to the right school you get way more than you pay for. [/quote]
And... access to insurance, in New York City you will no be able to shoot on location without a liability insurance, as an independent you can most liklely not afford one, and I don't think any company will issue you one, but NYU has arrangements to get a $1m liability insurance for grand/undergrad crews through the university - a lot of grads are there for this reason alone...
/magnus
Re: Where to go to school?
[quote author=Slapdragon link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=60#72 date=07/10/04 at 08:38:57]As a professor sans butt plug who is now starting a media program at a college that did not have one before, I actually agree with you.
So what do you get out of college?
[/quote]
Of course, when you say this, you're referring to a college degree with distribution requirements, and smatterings of all sorts of fields of study -- a valuable thing to have, period (aren't you)?
This is not the same as a degree from a school that has *only* film courses or courses in your immediate field of study (e.g. Full Sail). The former is more valuable if you're looking for a job outside the industry (which is the scenario referred to by most when they say you should have "something to fall back on").
[quote author=Slapdragon link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=60#72 date=07/10/04 at 08:38:57]As a professor sans butt plug who is now starting a media program at a college that did not have one before, I actually agree with you.
So what do you get out of college?
[/quote]
Of course, when you say this, you're referring to a college degree with distribution requirements, and smatterings of all sorts of fields of study -- a valuable thing to have, period (aren't you)?
This is not the same as a degree from a school that has *only* film courses or courses in your immediate field of study (e.g. Full Sail). The former is more valuable if you're looking for a job outside the industry (which is the scenario referred to by most when they say you should have "something to fall back on").
Slapdragon
Well-known member
Re: Where to go to school?
[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=60#74 date=07/11/04 at 13:31:37]
Of course, when you say this, you're referring to a college degree with distribution requirements, and smatterings of all sorts of fields of study -- a valuable thing to have, period (aren't you)?
This is not the same as a degree from a school that has *only* film courses or courses in your immediate field of study (e.g. Full Sail). The former is more valuable if you're looking for a job outside the industry (which is the scenario referred to by most when they say you should have "something to fall back on").
[/quote]
I am. I wont go into it now, but I have not been really happy with Full Sail grads, and a lot of art colleges are likewise diploma mills that are impossible to flunk out from and offer a very uneven education. I do believe that students should make video / film in school, and even try to be directors and producers even if they wont do that when they graduate. I appreciate the kid from a little college with a heart felt reel trying to get a grip position out of me, even if college is not needed to be a grip. Simple fact is, how often have you had to spot promote someone on a shoot that technically holds a lower slot. I find college students often have the ability to be very flexible.
But also, there is a lot more to film and television than gripping, shooting, and editing. All of those little, dumb courses you take as a BA or BS student may seem stupid when you take them, but I have had a PA fresh out of UGA point out to me that some of the information in our script was wrong and back it up, saving my and the writer's ass (he also did it the right way). That kid was back with us the next shoot as an assistant producer and writer.
Plus, Full Sail wont make you a manager at IBM. With the growth of PR, corporate communication, business marketing, and all that stuff, a person with a BA in communications from a school, any school, that gives real degrees, wont starve if their dreams of film making fall through. And since they never know which company may be the one that is their gold mine, knowing a little about a lot of things means that they wont be permenantly on the unemployment line when the world changes and their speciality of loading 2" quad machines (something that would guarantee you a job in 1985) goes the way of the dodo.
[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=60#74 date=07/11/04 at 13:31:37]
Of course, when you say this, you're referring to a college degree with distribution requirements, and smatterings of all sorts of fields of study -- a valuable thing to have, period (aren't you)?
This is not the same as a degree from a school that has *only* film courses or courses in your immediate field of study (e.g. Full Sail). The former is more valuable if you're looking for a job outside the industry (which is the scenario referred to by most when they say you should have "something to fall back on").
[/quote]
I am. I wont go into it now, but I have not been really happy with Full Sail grads, and a lot of art colleges are likewise diploma mills that are impossible to flunk out from and offer a very uneven education. I do believe that students should make video / film in school, and even try to be directors and producers even if they wont do that when they graduate. I appreciate the kid from a little college with a heart felt reel trying to get a grip position out of me, even if college is not needed to be a grip. Simple fact is, how often have you had to spot promote someone on a shoot that technically holds a lower slot. I find college students often have the ability to be very flexible.
But also, there is a lot more to film and television than gripping, shooting, and editing. All of those little, dumb courses you take as a BA or BS student may seem stupid when you take them, but I have had a PA fresh out of UGA point out to me that some of the information in our script was wrong and back it up, saving my and the writer's ass (he also did it the right way). That kid was back with us the next shoot as an assistant producer and writer.
Plus, Full Sail wont make you a manager at IBM. With the growth of PR, corporate communication, business marketing, and all that stuff, a person with a BA in communications from a school, any school, that gives real degrees, wont starve if their dreams of film making fall through. And since they never know which company may be the one that is their gold mine, knowing a little about a lot of things means that they wont be permenantly on the unemployment line when the world changes and their speciality of loading 2" quad machines (something that would guarantee you a job in 1985) goes the way of the dodo.
Slapdragon
Well-known member
Re: Where to go to school?
[quote author=Kai link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=75#76 date=07/12/04 at 08:49:53]<=== 2 Degrees from Full Sail, knows alot about alot, doing great.[/quote]
Did not mean to dis your alma mater! My issues with Full Sail were much more complex than simple bad/good place. AND, one of my best people came from there.
[quote author=Kai link=board=news;num=1087913677;start=75#76 date=07/12/04 at 08:49:53]<=== 2 Degrees from Full Sail, knows alot about alot, doing great.[/quote]
Did not mean to dis your alma mater! My issues with Full Sail were much more complex than simple bad/good place. AND, one of my best people came from there.
oggproductions
New member
Re: Where to go to school?
I say save the money you are going to dump into film school and use it to make a movie.
Film schools are overpriced and over rated. They teach you how to make movies the Hollywood way which means expensive and time consuming.
Go out and buy two books.
First one is "From Reel to Deal" by Dov Siemens. Then go out and buy Robert Rodriguez book "Rebel Without a Crew".
"Rebel Without a Crew" is in my opinion the best movie making book ever published.
Then sink more money into DVD's and listen to the director commentaries. Ed Burns, Kevin Smith and Robert Rodriguez have some of the best commentaries on their break-thru films. This is REAL film school because they did it.
Start off with "The Brothers McMullen", "Clerks" and "El Mariachi". With those three DVD's, you will learn more than 10 years of film school with an investment of about $30.00.
You will learn guerilla filmmaking at it's finest. How to make a GREAT movie with little to no money. It's all about telling a story, not how much of a budget you have, or can get.
But remember this, if you can't tell a story, then no amount of film school, book reading, or DVD watching will help you.
I say save the money you are going to dump into film school and use it to make a movie.
Film schools are overpriced and over rated. They teach you how to make movies the Hollywood way which means expensive and time consuming.
Go out and buy two books.
First one is "From Reel to Deal" by Dov Siemens. Then go out and buy Robert Rodriguez book "Rebel Without a Crew".
"Rebel Without a Crew" is in my opinion the best movie making book ever published.
Then sink more money into DVD's and listen to the director commentaries. Ed Burns, Kevin Smith and Robert Rodriguez have some of the best commentaries on their break-thru films. This is REAL film school because they did it.
Start off with "The Brothers McMullen", "Clerks" and "El Mariachi". With those three DVD's, you will learn more than 10 years of film school with an investment of about $30.00.
You will learn guerilla filmmaking at it's finest. How to make a GREAT movie with little to no money. It's all about telling a story, not how much of a budget you have, or can get.
But remember this, if you can't tell a story, then no amount of film school, book reading, or DVD watching will help you.