where to start and how to learn Audio? because I want a recorder/mic

R

ryvac

Veteran
(I'm very new to Audio so please bear with me...)

I'm looking for a recorder so I searched here and found out that the Zoom H4/H4n ($350) and Tascam HD-P2 ($800) are a popular choice for recorders.
Now since they are $350 and $800, do they record better sound then the HVX does? (btw, I have a NTG-2 mic)
I say this because I do all my Audio recording on the HVX and just use the sound on it in post. (when I do voice over and sound effects)
I don't know anything about Audio so when I read "Zoom H4n records in 24bit" I don't know if that's even good or bad...
also the Tascam is $450 more then the Zoom. Why?
it says the Tascam records in the same 24bit but I'm sure that's not the point.
just like the HVX, I'm sure all equipments have there special specs. Like an HVX and Canon's HV20 both record 1080 HD footage but the HVX records on 3ccd in 4:4:2 color with HDVCProHD formate.
So if I want to learn Audio where should I start?

If you know any site/thread that talks about basic Audio pleaes let me know.
Thank you.
 
I don't know of an all in one source for this information, but there's a couple basic features that seperate audio recorders...

16/24 bit recording (most offer 24 at this point which offers better dynamic range)
48k/96k/192k resolution (there's debate what you really need, but higher end recorders usually give you the option to record at whatever rate you want)
Mic-Pre amp quality
DAC and ADC converter quality
Phantom Power
Ability to record line level signal (from a mixer usually)
Build quality
Quality and controls on limiters
LED meters
Timecode options
Recording media (internal HDD, Flashcards, ect...)
Size and weight
Battery Life
AES Connections
 
so is the bit rate and resolution the first to note when looking into audio? (the higher the better?)

The HVX says it records in 16 bit/48kHz and the Zoom H4 records 24bit/96kHz so does that mean the Zoom H4 records better sound?
 
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If you're recording straight into the recorder, not using a mixer, then the quality of the preamps is a far greater concern than the bit depth and sample rates. Plenty of projects are still 16/44.1 or 16/48. If you take the sample rate and divide by 2, you get the maximum frequency of the recording, so at a 48kHz rate, you can record frequencies up to 24kHz.

Most mics you're going to encounter are listed at something like 20Hz - 20 kHz, and the average adult hears only up to something like 16kHz.

There are those that will say that the higher frequencies offerred by going to 96 or 192k have an impact on how a sound is percieved, but I've yet to see anything scientific that shows that.
 
JordanBlock said:
If you're recording straight into the recorder, not using a mixer, then the quality of the preamps is a far greater concern than the bit depth and sample rates.
Click to expand...

Dido on the preamps. I'm not sure how good the preamps on the HVX are, but H4n has excellent ones (the H4 original though, not so much)

JordanBlock said:
Plenty of projects are still 16/44.1 or 16/48. If you take the sample rate and divide by 2, you get the maximum frequency of the recording, so at a 48kHz rate, you can record frequencies up to 24kHz.

Most mics you're going to encounter are listed at something like 20Hz - 20 kHz, and the average adult hears only up to something like 16kHz.

There are those that will say that the higher frequencies offered by going to 96 or 192k have an impact on how a sound is perceived, but I've yet to see anything scientific that shows that.
Click to expand...

I agree it varies a lot whether 96 or 192 are worth recording in purely from a sonic standpoint. However recording at 96k is actually very helpful when recording on cheaper DACs and ADCs and using 96k instead of 48k can help smooth out quantization errors.

I've heard the comparison and my thought is that this is what people are hearing when they record at 96k instead of 48k claiming it's better. Also why not everyone agrees since not all DACs and ADCs are made equally.

My thoughts on 192k though... that's the "I have the gear and the money so why the f*** not?" :beer:
 
JordanBlock said:
Plenty of projects are still 16/44.1 or 16/48. If you take the sample rate and divide by 2, you get the maximum frequency of the recording, so at a 48kHz rate, you can record frequencies up to 24kHz.

Most mics you're going to encounter are listed at something like 20Hz - 20 kHz, and the average adult hears only up to something like 16kHz.

There are those that will say that the higher frequencies offerred by going to 96 or 192k have an impact on how a sound is percieved, but I've yet to see anything scientific that shows that.
Click to expand...


Although these statements are true, they kind of miss the point. The higher the sample rate, the fewer aliasing artifacts you will have. (Now, this is a severely oversimplified statement, but I don't want to start a sampling rate debate.)

The bit rate of a recorder represents the resolution of each sample. The higher resolution allows more dynamic range while recording. 24 is better then 16, obviously.

The Tascam is better then the Zoom because it has XLR inputs. That way, you don’t need an adaptor to plug in a mic. It likely also has better preamps and converters. It also has more and more useful options.

If you can afford it, get the Tascam. You'll be happier in the long run. I own the Tascam HD-P2 with a Rode NTG-2 and am quite happy with them both. Buy the fastest compact flash card you can find for it. Don't skimp on the card or you might run into issues when recording. It's worth the extra cost to have a fast card.
 
...wow, that's a lot of stuff I have to learn.

well the Zoom H4n records 24bit/48kHz and I guess that's fine for a beginner like me.
as long as I know it records better sound then the HVX I am happy! (becasue I have no problem with the sound I get from the HVX)
also the Zoom is a pocket size recorder so it can actually be like a interview mic or a recorder that the interviewer can carry in His/Her pocket! now that's cool

btw, I'm reading these Audio threads and people talk alot about pre-amps and line level. now what is that?
 
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The voltage coming out of a microphone is around 2 millivolts (a millivolt is one thousandth of a volt). The voltage coming out of anything that produces live level is around 25 millivolts. A preamp amplifies low level mic signals up to line level so your other equipment can actually use the signal.

If you do not use a preamp, your other equipment needs to be turned up so loud you get more noise then signal. If you put line level into a mic preamp, you are putting over 10 times more voltage into the preamp then it was designed to handle. You WILL get distortion and you will probably damage your preamp.

As an added note, the type of connector DOES NOT dictate the type of signal it carries. You can have balanced line level on an XLR connector, a 1/4 inch TRS, or even an 1/8 inch TRS or any other three conductor connection. You can also carry unbalanced signals on these connectors. Be sure you know what you're plugging into what.

As an additional note, think about this. When you use a mic splitter cable, you are dividing an very weak signal in half before it gets amplified. That means poorer sound quality. You should split your signal with a mixer, not a cable.
 
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