EX3 Relay for Letus adaptors

cd_albert said:
Kholi, as the relay is the academy frame, the crop factor is around 50% correct? So you would not even see the edges of the SLR 36x24mm image to start with? It's a question...I'm not taking the piss!

I'm still stuck on the fact that a 17mm will become around a 32mm...and that's as wide as you'll get.
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Y I don't shoot anything outside of a 35mm Academy frame anyway. On my HPX170 + Ultimate either. It looks sloppy and odd to me, that's just my opinion.

Your question is valid, and one that I don't have an answer too at the moment. All we ALL know is that wide angles are generally really bad on adapters and for some reason this same wide angle looks much sharper/flatter on the Relay than it does on my HPX170.

That's all I knows!
 
Joseph Stunzi said:
Also be specific! A 17mm cinema lens will have the FOV of a 17mm lens. A 17mm SLR lens... will be cropped. There's a difference here.
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A 17mm cinema lens will exhibit the exact same field of view as a 17mm SLR lens when those lenses are mounted on an adapter.

That field of view will appear "cropped" as compared to how those lenses would look on an SLR, yes, but 17mm is 17mm and it doesn't matter where those 17mm come from. When you put the same focal length lens on the adapter, you're going to get the same field of view.

The only time you even really have to wonder is when the lens in question is designed for a smaller circle of illumination -- as in, if you put on a 17mm lens that was designed for use with 16mm cameras, then you're going to see a small circle of illumination in the middle of a whole lot of black, because that lens isn't designed to cover the full frame that an adapter uses.
 
The Letus B4 and 1/2" Relay lenses have about an 18% larger frame size than the P+S Pro35, not 35mm SLR frame, but the majority of DP's that would be using the B4 Relay lens on 2/3" cameras will be quite happy--whether with PL-mount Cine or SLR glass.

I doubt Panavision gets too many complaint about their lenses not having SLR FOV!
 
Dino said:
The Letus B4 and 1/2" Relay lenses have about an 18% larger frame size than the P+S Pro35, not 35mm SLR frame, but the majority of DP's that would be using the B4 Relay lens on 2/3" cameras will be quite happy--whether with PL-mount Cine or SLR glass.

I doubt Panavision gets too many complaint about their lenses not having SLR FOV!
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Seriously.
 
I guess what frustrates me is the focus on the FOV versus the optical quality. I mean... these are the first relays made since the P&S. They're 30% wider than the P&S and have true academy framing to my understanding. P&S cropped their framing even more to eliminate vignetting. And the image looks stellar. Lacks any CA. Lacks any vignetting... well let me clarify.

Obviously FF SLR lenses won't show a vignette at academy framing. However, with a quick tweak of the prism inside the Letus... it's possible to eliminate vignetting from even the wider PL lenses being used with this relay/Letus setup.

I'm pumped and excited. I also think competition doesn't hurt. So Evangelos if you want a true evaluation of your relay versus the Letus relay... and of your fiber screen vs the original screens inside the Brevis... send me a PM and I'll clue you in on the 35mm Adapter Shootout I'm producing.
 
Joseph when I will have back the parts that are floating I will send... just keep me posted when you will do it...

Hey we are in the same city damn it... Athens... ha ha ha... I will dig a hole in the ground to reach you on the other side...:)
 
Joseph Stunzi said:
I guess what frustrates me is the focus on the FOV versus the optical quality.
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Sniff sniff. Joseph is growing up so fast...

I agree, comfreakin'pletely. When you start getting into zoom lenses and all that you're bound to lose quality, especially if you're trying to sell your product on "cost". Anyone can sell something for cheap. Selling on benefits and quality is a different story.

Lots of people wanting to compete with the Letus Ultimate, at the end of the day (while they're all good) there's still not one competitor that's touched the quality you get out of it in an adapter. That's just me, though!
 
Joseph Stunzi said:
These adapters already work fine with the 1/2" sensor of the EX series... the relay just helps to improve the overall performance... and reduces light loss.

They're aimed at professionals... and I urge everyone to keep that in mind.
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Can anyone elaborate if there is a performance improvement of relay on EX3 vs no relay on EX1? Is the optical quality of the relay better than the stock Fujinon (CA, E2E, etc). Also, what is the light loss difference. I know the Fujinon says 1.7 but zoomed in we all know that's a crock.
 
Tim Naylor said:
Can anyone elaborate if there is a performance improvement of relay on EX3 vs no relay on EX1? Is the optical quality of the relay better than the stock Fujinon (CA, E2E, etc). Also, what is the light loss difference. I know the Fujinon says 1.7 but zoomed in we all know that's a crock.
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Tim,

I asked Philip Bloom to test this because we know the stock Fuji lens will ramp down to a 2.8 or so when zoomed in for adapter use and he says the relay is 2 stops faster. That's a big difference when shooting interiors.

Even if light sensitivity were the only advantage of a relay lens, that would be enough for me.

I can see why EX3 owners might not rush out to buy a $4500 relay lens, but as a rental for interior shoots, the relay would save so much money due to being 2 stops faster because of less lighting, power, crew and time required. My take on it is that a couple of hundred spent on renting a relay would be a good investment.
 
Exactly Dino! These are rental items mainly in my book. If you're a big boy like Bloom... maybe you'll own one. But it really depends on how much of a profit you can turn out. Basically what I'm saying is that if you're filming just for fun or experience... a relay isn't probably your "bag".
 
Joseph Stunzi said:
Exactly Dino! These are rental items mainly in my book. If you're a big boy like Bloom... maybe you'll own one. But it really depends on how much of a profit you can turn out. Basically what I'm saying is that if you're filming just for fun or experience... a relay isn't probably your "bag".
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Joseph,

I totally agree. My business concept is to provide a 35mm DOF adapter and relay lens for 2/3" cameras at less than the cost of an HD wide angle ENG zoom lens rental. Any camera, be it 1/3" or 1/2" or 2/3", with a detachable lens will be able to take advantage of a fast relay lens and 35mm DOF adapter with 1/2 stop of light loss saving money in additional lighting for interiors that would be needed for ANY palmcorder and it's 2.4 to 2.8 rated lens when zoomed in for adapter use.

To use a relay lens that offers a 2 stop advantage over a stock lens zoomed in, means four times less light level needed.
 
Joseph Stunzi said:
Exactly Dino! These are rental items mainly in my book. If you're a big boy like Bloom... maybe you'll own one. But it really depends on how much of a profit you can turn out. Basically what I'm saying is that if you're filming just for fun or experience... a relay isn't probably your "bag".
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True mostly, but I'm staff with CBS and I'm soon going to shell out the $10K of my own money for all of this gear, simply 'cause I've got to! Shooting with 35mm DOF is a dream come true. Plus the $2-3K for all of the Canon FD lenses I've bought!

Will CBS love the pics? Yeah for sure. Will they start buying 35 adapters or paying me rental for the gear, probably not!

I've got two other mates (staff with BBC and Al Jazeera Int.) who at the $5000 price point were interested, but the relays and rods atke it up to around $10K.

Financial suicide for the love of the images I guess. :)
 
cd_albert said:
True mostly, but I'm staff with CBS and I'm soon going to shell out the $10K of my own money for all of this gear, simply 'cause I've got to! Shooting with 35mm DOF is a dream come true. Plus the $2-3K for all of the Canon FD lenses I've bought!

Will CBS love the pics? Yeah for sure. Will they start buying 35 adapters or paying me rental for the gear, probably not!

I've got two other mates (staff with BBC and Al Jazeera Int.) who at the $5000 price point were interested, but the relays and rods atke it up to around $10K.

Financial suicide for the love of the images I guess. :)
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Financial suicide! Haha. I mean the ultimate and relay alone are around $10k depending on which one you get. If you get an Elite or Extreme with the compact B4 relay it'd be around $5000-6000. Rods... well the only decent out there currently is Zacuto's Zephyr and LWS. But as Kholi, Phil, and Jeff will tell you, I'm a little bit biased.

If you really love the look and feel of 35mm, here's one suggestion: shoot film! Hehe


I guess Jeff and my point is that these are more of an item you go out and rent than you own yourself. How many people own a Pro35 versus the number of people that own a M2 or a Letus?
 
A LITTLE Biased? LOL

But, I actually found a very new appreciation for Zacuto gear recently. The multiple configurations, sturdy build quality and the look once it's all rigged up is much more cleaner than I remember.

I've started using it a lot more than before!!! And the snorkel down configuration is a lot more charming than I remember. Guess I was just doin' it wrong?

If you can afford Zacuto, it's the best way to go. Same deal with the Ultimate versus other adapters, IMO.
 
Kholi said:
A LITTLE Biased? LOL

But, I actually found a very new appreciation for Zacuto gear recently. The multiple configurations, sturdy build quality and the look once it's all rigged up is much more cleaner than I remember.

I've started using it a lot more than before!!! And the snorkel down configuration is a lot more charming than I remember. Guess I was just doin' it wrong?

If you can afford Zacuto, it's the best way to go. Same deal with the Ultimate versus other adapters, IMO.
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I TOLD YOU! Hehe... do you have a Zephyr or Z-LWS plate as well as a universal baseplate?
 
I think it's got to be the Letus Ultimate or another adapter (if one appears as there isn't one is there?) that you can stop down to f8, f11 or more region....I want that flexibility and you don't always want a 5" DOF!

Yep, already had an email chat with Mandy at Zacuto...cool lookin' gear.

The fibre screen seems interesting as does Cinivate's relay and Evangelos' relays as they will not crop the SLR lenses (Although sorry Dennis, at the moment Cinvate's is too big!)

Kholi, you said you didn't like the full frame output of the SLR lenses? Why is that, what don't you like? I had a look at your site and there's some nice stuff. I guess you'll be shooting PL anyway?

I look forward to using lenses like my Canon FD 15mm full frame fish-eye/Lens Baby etc etc that I never had access to before with a 2/3" camera.
 
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cd_albert said:
I think it's got to be the Letus Ultimate or another adapter (if one appears as there isn't one is there?) that you can stop down to f8, f11 or more region....I want that flexibility and you don't always want a 5" DOF!

Yep, already had an email chat with Mandy at Zacuto...cool lookin' gear.

The fibre screen seems interesting as does Cinivate's relay and Evangelos' relays as they will not crop the SLR lenses (Although sorry Dennis, at the moment Cinvate's is too big!)

Kholi, you said you didn't like the full frame output of the SLR lenses? Why is that, what don't you like? I had a look at your site and there's some nice stuff. I guess you'll be shooting PL anyway?

I look forward to using lenses like my Canon FD 15mm full frame fish-eye/Lens Baby etc etc that I never had access to before with a 2/3" camera.
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Sorry, didn't see this post until now. To me, Full Frame looks odd. It's kinda like how 2/3" FOV/DOF looks odd. Something's "off" about it.

That's probably just me. I actually use SLR/Still glass frequently, even with the RED. We're getting a Canon mount asap for the feature but have been using Nikon and I have no issues with it, honestly.

Again, Full Frame just looks odd to me. I like to stick with Academy FOV, personally.
 
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