Letus relases 2/3 B4 Relay Lenses

[cd_albert]

Thanks Phil, nice demo.

I have been waiting for the moment the B4 Relay was out...but a 1.5x crop factor for SLR lenses? Can't do it. Assuming I've got this right, the my widest lens a Canon FD 15mm x 1.5 becomes a 22.5mm?

It would seem a nice idea to release a SLR Relay and a PL relay. Anyone agree?

Both Cinevate and Motion FX have Relays that will do full frame SLR and PL, they're just very long.

 

[Kholi]

I don't agree. There aren't enough industry professionals that care to use SLR glass because it isn't setup for consistent professional use.

Add to that the varying degrees of quality you get from SLR glass to begin with, the inability to predict anomalies such as edge performance etc. It's just not worth the time/effort to make A Grade Glass for a niche market WITHIN a niche market. I, and I think a lot of people who want the BEST results, would sooner take a relay of top-tier quality that's fit at Academy (approx.) FOV over one that's of lesser quality that achieves a wider FOV or can zoom.

The Crop Factor is only a big deal to those who don't REALLY shoot under these conditions for a living. In a professional environment that demands results, anything larger than a 35mm Academy frame is most likely not going to matter since they've got the proper wides to cover the frame.

It's why a 10 to 12mm lens isn't uncommon to have on set to begin with.

If you want to use the SLR format you have many options available to you to achieve massive wides: the Tokina 11-16mm coming to mind immediately. Although I'm not sure if it'll be covered. Anyone?

 

[philip bloom]

stick anything like a 14mm SLR lens on the Ultimate without the relay and you get vignette from hell. Widest I have managed with a clean frame is the 17mm end of my 17-35mm nikon.

If you want a relay that lets you use slr or pl then look at cinevate's multi format relay. Quite long, but that is what happens when you use a zoom as your relay rather than a prime. I wonder if it will work with other adaptors?

 

[Kholi]

I've yet to try the Tokina 11-16mm but I should be figuring that out soon so I know for myself. I don't doubt you, though. If I remember right it's fine @ 2K on the RED but 3k or 4k is a no. Hmm.

 

[cd_albert]

I just assumed there'd be a lot of users out there who'd use SLR and could not afford PL.

Phil, you're a SLR user and not bothered?

I do have the crop factor right yes? 20mm SLR would become 30mm.

Also, the diff between the Compact f1.5 and the Pro f1.8 It seems like a very small difference (again, I'm brand new to adapters so eager to learn)...Phil, are you testing both?

 

[philip bloom]

I just assumed there'd be a lot of users out there who'd use SLR and could not afford PL.

Phil, you're a SLR user and not bothered?

I do have the crop factor right yes? 20mm SLR would become 30mm.

I always knew we were being spoilt with full frame SLR sized imaged. Look at the size of the Red sensor. Being a Nikon D300 user am used to the crop factor anyway on my nice glass...

Would I spend $6500 or a relay for SLR and again for PL for the big jobs? No. I would just buy one that works for both and that means the cropped one. I shot on the EX3 with relay with the same crop factor using my Nikons and i wasn't really bothered to be honest. The edge sharpness and ease of use made losing the wide end more palatable. Wish they could make a small zoom that was f1.5 but I also wish for an Aston Martin, a villa in the South of France and Angelina Jolie. Am still working on all three!

 

[Dino]

Also, the diff between the Compact f1.5 and the Pro f1.8 It seems like a very small difference (again, I'm brand new to adapters so eager to learn)...Phil, are you testing both?

I'm not Phil, but the Letus B4 Compact is f1.8, the B4 Pro is f1.5, as is the 1/2" Letus relay. I don't think Phil has the B4 Compact. I should have mine any day now.

 

[philip bloom]

Just testing the Pro, didn't get the compact. It is a big price difference and can see most people going with the more affordable compact...is only half a stop after all and you gain so much by using the relay already...I don't know how the two compare on sharpness mind!

 

[Dino]

I think Hien is going to have to crop the Letus relay to same degree as the Pro 35 to avoid any slight vignetting.

Hien told me the Letus Relay frame size is about 18% larger than a P+S Pro35, but he said he only saw slight vignetting on very wide lenses, like a 14mm.

 

[Evangelos Achillopoulos]

Thanks Phil, nice demo.

I have been waiting for the moment the B4 Relay was out...but a 1.5x crop factor for SLR lenses? Can't do it. Assuming I've got this right, the my widest lens a Canon FD 15mm x 1.5 becomes a 22.5mm?

It would seem a nice idea to release a SLR Relay and a PL relay. Anyone agree?

Both Cinevate and Motion FX have Relays that will do full frame SLR and PL, they're just very long.

Our relay is modular... that means it is a prime lens, designed only for macro, from few millimeters to 50cm, optimized for CA and edge sharpness, with variable back focal distance and exchangeable mounts (2/3, 1/2, 1/3...) it means that you can upgrade the relay with a very low cost to any mount that you like so in one package all... When it is used with a flip the size is 1-2cm longer than the Letus compact for S35 frame, when you need FF35 the its 2-4 cm longer than compact.

In the photos in my web site is the Rev1 the new Rev2 it is a bit different...

I'm in the process of authoring the new web site that will have everything in details... in few weeks will be up.

Also in my web the relay is used without flip so it is straight... that has as a side effect to be longer because it doesn't have the flip that adds a good 14cm of light travel... that makes the whole setup to be a bit longer than a periscope style is... on the other hand the total weight of the GG.relay Rev2, rods, Brevis, Nikon mount and a 50mm Zeiss is 470gr... try to measure the same with any other set up... Varicam doesn't need flip because it has image invert function...

That means, our relay is longer than the compact and much shorter than the pro...

So longer ONLY for a straight configuration... (but much much lighter!!!) remember is a modular relay... lets say a kit that allows all configurations...

Our philosophy is to thing simple and different...

 

[cd_albert]

Evangelous, any chance of sending one to Mr Bloom for a comparison to the Letus Pro?

 

[Evangelos Achillopoulos]

I have already send him the FiberScreen...

I thing he is very busy right now...

I will send him one set in time with my new web site... don't worry I have it in mind...

 

[Kholi]

I'm taking so long because I have so much stuff popping up, but with some of the questions flying around I thought I'd post up some stills. There's been some questions on soft edges, CA, etc... so here are some uncorrected, untouched stills (JPG format) straight from the p2 Card. Camera was HPX3000.


Details: 17~35/2.8~4 Tamron Wide Open and the Letus B4 Pro Relay wide open. Flat Field, sharp... and did I mention wide open with a lens that really isn't good at all? The Tamron has soft edges like whoa, I don't really see it here and I can only imagine what the infamous 17-35 NIkon (which wasn't available, out with the still camera) could hav edone. This was pretty startling to me and a real deal sealer.

Second thing I went to look for was bokeh rendition specifically because I wanted to know if it had any adverse effect. It does improve as far as I'm concerned, especially in the center of out of focus highlights.

This lens is the Zeiss Contax 135/2.8 Wide open and the Relay Wide open once more. It's always supposed to be dangerous shooting wide open with lenses, I didn't try my 85/1.4 and 50/1.4 but I couldn't see why I would be afraid at all to use them.

135/2.8 wide open again and the relay wide open. Love the color representation throughout. The Dawn Bottle is a really good example of both camera and adapter being a great match. To me, the color is rich without being oversaturated and very accurate. Also, notice the falloff in the image as far as windows and out of focus highlights go, it's very pleasant and doesn't feel distracting to me.

Crisp, even.

I should have had some footage by now but things keep coming up (per usual). I was scheduled to shoot another music video this weekend utilizing the system but it's going to be bumped in favor of a new (big) account that just popped up.

I hope to get SOMETHING asap to show the community, right now Phillip is doinga great job of that, I'm slackin'... but not by choice.

So far impressions are A+. I think most people want to know what performance is like wide open which is why I stuck around indoors. I have some outdoors shots as well but nothing particularly incredible.

Again, just waitin' on a real job I can light on etc. These stills are just to show performance as far as what I'm getting out of the combo. Only gets better from here.

 

[SPZ]

Our relay is modular... that means it is a prime lens, designed only for macro, from few millimeters to 50cm, optimized for CA and edge sharpness, with variable back focal distance and exchangeable mounts (2/3, 1/2, 1/3...) it means that you can upgrade the relay with a very low cost to any mount that you like so in one package all... When it is used with a flip the size is 1-2cm longer than the Letus compact for S35 frame, when you need FF35 the its 2-4 cm longer than compact.

In the photos in my web site is the Rev1 the new Rev2 it is a bit different...

I'm in the process of authoring the new web site that will have everything in details... in few weeks will be up.

Also in my web the relay is used without flip so it is straight... that has as a side effect to be longer because it doesn't have the flip that adds a good 14cm of light travel... that makes the whole setup to be a bit longer than a periscope style is... on the other hand the total weight of the GG.relay Rev2, rods, Brevis, Nikon mount and a 50mm Zeiss is 470gr... try to measure the same with any other set up... Varicam doesn't need flip because it has image invert function...

That means, our relay is longer than the compact and much shorter than the pro...

So longer ONLY for a straight configuration... (but much much lighter!!!) remember is a modular relay... lets say a kit that allows all configurations...

Our philosophy is to thing simple and different...

I would be very interested in this relay! Please keep us posted!

 

[Kholi]

Oh, one more. Macro shot, for the hell of it!

Came out of the Zeiss 28-70/3.4~5.6 Macro end. Lens relay was stopped down to about a 2~2.8 so that the taking lens could remain wide open.

 

[Evangelos Achillopoulos]

Kholi they are looking fair... I believe is better to shoot the front lens in the sweet spot like F4 (F5.6 for the wides) and do the following

Same frame with highlights like your windows... or something brighter outdoors

1 frame the relay wide open with an ND 0.9 in front
2 frame the relay F2 with ND 0.6
3 Frame the relay F2.8 with ND 0.3
4 Frame the relay F4 with no ND

That will be helpful...

In the first image I see many bad thinks that 90% are from the front lens
on the rest I don't see the HPX3000 sharpness either... it looks diffused a bit...

In the last I try to find where is the focus... is it in the coffee machine?

Probably is the front lens... If you using FilmRec on 3000, grab the images with gamma correction in Gamma 2... or use a Filmlike set... I suppose you shooting with detail OFF?

What I mean sharp... this is just 960 x 720 DVCPRO HD Varicam grab... this is with F2 in Zeiss ZF F1.4 50mm and ND 1.2, with relay at F2.8... On camera detail OFF, FilmREC, corrected in Apple Color, with sharpness 0.06 in Apple Color FX room...

 

[Kholi]

Kholi the are looking fair... I believe is better to shoot the front lens in the sweet spot like F4 (F5.6 for the wides) and do the following

Sure I could shoot with the lens stopped down. That wasn't the test. It was to see how it performed wide open. Naturally, if I walked outside it would look different. You can walk outside and stop down on camera and lens and make any adapter look "better". Wide open is a tell-tale all it's own, no?

Same frame with highlights like your windows... or something brighter outdoors

1 frame the relay wide open with an ND 0.9 in front
2 frame the relay F2 with ND 0.6
3 Frame the relay F2.8 with ND 0.3
4 Frame the relay F4 with no ND

That will be helpful...

But the relay is wide open, it won't make a difference what ND you're slapping on in front of anything because now you have to figure out what grade ND you're using, the taking lens, etc etc.

In the first image I see many bad thinks that 90% are from the front lens
on the rest I don't see the HPX3000 sharpness either... it looks diffused a bit...

It's because there's no extra detail added in camera settings. There's no need to add sharpness because sharpness isn't everything. Resolved Detail is not sharpness. And it's resolving pretty hardcore through several elements of glass.

In the last I try to find where is the focus... is it in the coffee machine?

Coffee machine in that grab. I actually posted the wrong one. But coffee machine.

Probably is the front lens... If you using FilmRec on 3000, grab the images with gamma correction in Gamma 2... or use a Filmlike set... I suppose you shooting with detail OFF?

Yup, detail is off. The Camera was setup by a tech how I really like it and have little to no added color, etc. It's also a JPG grab from DVCpro converted footage.

What I mean sharp... this is just 960 x 720 DVCPRO HD Varicam grab... this is with F2 in Zeiss 50mm and ND 1.2 with relay at F2.8... detail OFF FilmREC corrected in Apple Color with sharpness 0.06 in Apple Color FX room...

This is unpleasant because the kid looks like he's being shot through a pane of glass that has vaseline all over it.

Naturally, if I walked outside with a 50mm and stopped it down you'd see a great image... where are the stills of a superwide angle lens wide open with the relay?

I thought that's what you were asking Phillip for? And don't get me wrong, it's good that you're offering another option to people. Keep at it! Just from the video I've seen and the images you've posted it's not my speed of relay and adapter.

The stills above pretty much show the image performance in lowlight at extreme wides with a crappy lens. Wide open on both the lens and the relay. There's a flat field on the 17mm wide and there's plenty of resolved detail, not to mention enough speed to pull off a scene without adding gain, etc. There wasn't any post sharpness added, etc etc... and this is a beta unit. Only goes up from here.

 

[Evangelos Achillopoulos]

Sure I could shoot with the lens stopped down. That wasn't the test. It was to see how it performed wide open. Naturally, if I walked outside it would look different. You can walk outside and stop down on camera and lens and make any adapter look "better". Wide open is a tell-tale all it's own, no?

In your test shoots the priority is to see the performance of the relay (camera lens or back lens)... so when you have a bad front lens (35 lens in this case TAMRON) you covering the possible problems that lens in test may have (thats the relay)... so stopping down the FRONT lens will help to see what the relay can do...

But the relay is wide open, it won't make a difference what ND you're slapping on in front of anything because now you have to figure out what grade ND you're using, the taking lens, etc etc.

By using ND's, you have the FRONT lens with fixed aperture (lets say F5.6) and you stopping down the relay in a way that will compensate the exposure...
In that way we can see the behavior of the relay in different apertures...

It's because there's no extra detail added in camera settings. There's no need to add sharpness because sharpness isn't everything. Resolved Detail is not sharpness. And it's resolving pretty hardcore through several elements of glass.

OK I rephrase, MTF...

Yup, detail is off. The Camera was setup by a tech how I really like it and have little to no added color, etc. It's also a JPG grab from DVCpro converted footage.

So you have a 3000 and you don't use AVCIntra?!... When testing with detail OFF you must add a detail in order to compensate the lack of it... so next time add in Apple Color FX 0.06...

This is unpleasant because the kid looks like he's being shot through a pane of glass that has Vaseline all over it.

The Vaseline is from the shi*y performance of 50mm F1.4... Vaseline.... hahaha Kholi you are the man...

Naturally, if I walked outside with a 50mm and stopped it down you'd see a great image... where are the stills of a superwide angle lens wide open with the relay?

I thing we cover that...

I thought that's what you were asking Phillip for?

What I asked was, to document what we showing...

The stills above pretty much show the image performance in lowlight at extreme wides with a crappy lens. Wide open on both the lens and the relay. There's a flat field on the 17mm wide and there's plenty of resolved detail, not to mention enough speed to pull off a scene without adding gain, etc. There wasn't any post sharpness added, etc etc... and this is a beta unit. Only goes up from here.

Hmm... this a crop from 36x24 of the TAMRON... to the academy 21x13.5.. so the TAMRON looks very bad... in the center is fair... in the corners...

 

[Kholi]

I see what I see, and what I see is a very robust, detailed and sharp image edge-to-edge (charts pending) before any tweaking is applied. I don't see a host of CA even with a bad lens and I definitely see a massive potential for lowlight/no-light production.

I'm still set to test some Cooke S4's really soon, I expect they'll perform pretty well.

I posted to clear up confusion on edge softness with my own experiences, and posted something very wide which is where edge softness will show up quicker than anything else.

No more debating for me!

 

[Dino]

Kholi,

Was that a camera chart I saw in one of those grabs? So close, yet so far!(Yes, it wasn't a resolution chart, but I can dream!)

Seriously, I think those shots say good things about the Letus B4 Relay and edge to edge, contrast and MTF and bokeh at F1.5.

Of course, a resolution chart could speak louder(in addition to real scenes)!!