Video Production Business is Sagging, Thinking about Making a Movie

basspig

basspig

Veteran
The news isn’t good lately in my neck of the woods. Even my associates are reporting such a dropoff in business that other forms of work are being considered.
Since November, I have not been able to engage any new projects besides a little web design (in trade for air time on a radio station) and my wife’s employer has just instituted a 10% across-board pay cut plus stoppage of 401K contributions. This places a greater burden on my video production business to bring in more revenue.
The bottom is dropping out of the corporate rates, with TV commercials being produced for a few hundred dollars, instead of the 5-figure prices of recent years.
Wedding videos? Many videographers are feeling the downward pressure here. I have an e-mail inbox filled with automatic e-mails from bridal referrers. They go along the line of “someone viewed your ad on ___..” But no real leads ever come in. We get more spam than legit e-mail lately.
I’m thinking that a different approach is needed. Since the democratization of video (just as the democratization of graphic design via the Mac computer) has given the common man the ability to compete with the trade professional for his business, the DV video camera has exploded the ranks of the video-capable.
I think it’s time to write a script, find the right actors and crew and make a movie. But I don’t want to write just another banal, meaningless indie film. I want to try using some of the other 43 plots out of which only 5 are typically used in literature, and make something unique and memorable and thought-provoking. Maybe it should be timely, dealing with related subject matter that is appropriate to our time.
The criteria for such a film recognize that the budget would be microscopic in size. This would necessitate more emphasis on character acting, than on special effects and action scenes.
I have some desire to make a film that is frightening, the kind that you don’t want to watch alone at night, but I also want to make it in the style of The Twilight Zone (referring to the original 1960s episodes), with simple sets and an ominous, foreboding undertone, emphasized by musical cues. I think, to make it meaningful, I may wish to incorporate some rare philosophical ideas, to challenge viewers to think about certain issues which the movie could be a vehicle for. The story would be in the dialog, not the visuals, relegating the latter to contextual framework. Costs could be controlled by use of second unit shots to set the location context and by shooting most of the scenes indoors.
The first big hurdle is to write the story and adapt it to a screenplay. This should be a project where the journey is just as satisfying as the destination.
Besides the local universities acting clubs, what other resources in Connecticut exist for finding and recruiting budding acting talent? I think there won’t be a shortage of camera and sound crew willing to work for an investment in the project, but finding compelling acting talent will be a challenge.
I have written several novelettes since 1985, but all of the stories would be megabucks to produce as movies. So I need to take a Jim Henson approach, like he did with “The Cube” and keep it basic on the props, but heavy on the ideas and conversation.
There is too much trash out there in the indie film world, focused on violence, special effects and with shallow plots and almost no compelling acting. I think it’s possible to make something excellent, but it takes a writer with ideas and a willingness to delve deep into the human mind and expose it on-screen.
I invite comments, ideas and suggestions about the above.
 
Do yourself a favor: Get help.

Don't try to do everything yourself, and if you cannot write an awesome script, go find one.

Check out these films which are great examples of low budget films based on great ideas that work:

Primer
The Man From Earth
Hunger
Brick
Boy A
Good Dick

.
 
If you don't love filmmaking AND you don't have a big budget - you're better off waiting for the economy to pick back up! LOL

Movies sell for $5 to $5 million, and unless all ducks are in a row you can give up on the $5 million and may seriously get an offer for $5. Over 95% (based on hear-say) directors/filmmakers only do one movie in their lifetime. My first two movies made less than half of my salary for my first year working out of college. And that wasn't me paying other people.

stay with videography - you must LOVE movies to make it. It's nothing to have several crap - no money making movies - before you get a break.
 
I just heard a podcast with Maggie Renzie she's John Sayles producer/partner and they finished Honeydripper staring Danny Glover and can't get a distributor. They're doing grassroots distribution. So if John Sayles (2 time Oscar nominee-Lone Star) indie stud (13 indie movies) who makes a movie for $5mil. and can't make money back, I would get a great script, spend the least amount possible and not expect to make your money back on the first one. Then see if you really want to be a filmmaker. If so then go for your dreams.
 
I know that making a movie will take a large and diverse group of talented people. That will be the biggest challenge, having no reputation as a filmmaker to go on. Being a 'nobody' and attempting to take on such a project sounds ludicrous and the odds are stacked against me. However, it's taken a long lifetime for me to slowly grasp the notion that maybe this is my purpose in life. Not just to make a film, but to make a film that changes society's way of thinking.

I've asked friends over the past ten years to partake in my filmmaking experiments, but alas, they're all to introverted to appear in front of a camera. I need to take it bigger.

Waiting out a 10+ year worldwide depression isn't a viable option. I have all the equipment I need to make a great movie--even the music. I have friends who are great musicians and composers. I just need acting people, a great script and a location to shoot the movie.

First, I have to immerse myself in a concept for the plot, become obsessed with the story, and isolate myself for as long as it takes to write the screenplay. If I'm happy with the writing, I'll talk to my associates about shooting and start seeking cast members and taking auditions. Online seems to be the new way to 'screen test' people, so that's a big time-saver for selecting the first round of potential talent.

I think we can do a lot with very little, if clever use of resources and careful planning is done in advance. I found those trailers on YouTube and studied each of them. Perhaps two of them look to be decently-engaging. The rest had so much documentary mixed in that it was hard to tell what the film was about, much less how well-excecuted it was.

The reality of the era we live in is that the world is entering a big transition. When we emerge from the other side, nothing will be recognizeable about our former economic traditions. And in the videography biz, that has been undergoing a metamorphosis for years. Like desktop publishing, the digital video revolution cuts both ways; it has lowered the barrier to entry, flooding the market with numerous competitors. Now with so many clients DIY'ing, I don't see the trend reversing itself--it didn't in the DTP market. So what is left is to create content and sell ideas in the vehicle of motion pictures. I'm passionate about the mechanics of filmmaking, but stayed away for decades because I thought it was too big a think to take on. But a series of short stories may be a good way to get started.
 
Hi Mark & MaryAnn... I feel your pain, but I also sense a grasping at straws. I've been in commercial video for 30 years and a filmmaker since I was 12 years old. Just completed 2 full length features (for other directors and have over 15 short movies under my belt) just to set up my creds for ya.
I have to say I agree with most of the above posters. This is not a great time to try to make an indy movie if you're doing it mostly for the money. The business took a drastic change just in the last 18 months. The very elements that have made indy moviemaking so easy now ( great cheap cameras like the EX! and great cheap editing systems like FCP) have also let in a whole bunch of people with marginal talent. We now have a glut of indy movies competeing in the marketplace. Most wont see the light of day, much less a projector! At the most recent film markets, the fewest movies were sold, and at the lowest prices ever. Don't forget, probably the easiest part will be making the movie (and that ain't exactly easy as you well know)... Getting some form of distribution, or just making your money back will be even more difficult... let alone profit! We used to consider 1,2 to 5 million a low budget indy... Now you had better not be much over $150K if you want to make it since you'll probably end up having to self distribute in some fashion. JLS4 (above) has had some great posts on this very subject.
I have 5 movies in the planning stages that I'm now putting on hold for awhile. Don't forget, the making of the movie is nothing but expense... you wont see a dime for long long time...if ever. It's still a basic marketing question: who would be willing to part with some dollars to see your stuff with no stars, etc.? Very few. Generally what does best would be various niche genres such as horror or action. You're in big trouble if you try drama and romantic comedy...Hollywood does that better than we can at our budgets. Even the greatest stories must have great marketing or they might as well not exist.
Interestingly, what may be a better path to making dollars in the slowing corporate video economy is... Special Interest Video, How-To's. What's going to make that work now is the down-load. You can market that yourself more easily and not split the income with a lot of middlemen. That's what my company is looking at right now. Eventually the down-load will also save the independent moviemaker... but that may be a few years off yet.
Good luck guys.
 
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Basspig what you're talking about is so intensive that I don't think you understand the scope. Making a indie movie is like building a house with no power tools. Sure you can hammer and saw your way to success, but your arms get tired and your body will feel faint. And then even if you make your house (which will take you longer than Hollywood) can it stand up to harsh winds of critisim? Can it stand the rain of no "Named Talent." Then you notice that you've made a house to sell and that every house on the street is also up for sale and most of their homes are better than yours!

I'm on my 3rd movie and granted my first was with no exeprience, my second I had very little. Now I'd say I have about 4 years of "real" experience. My work is better than over half the folks on DVXuser and over 75% of the people I've found online. Yet there are literally hundreds of people / films out there I'm still concerned about. When Adam makes Corrado 2 he's just as much your competition as everyone else. So you're competing with him "No Greater Love", "Drawing With Chalk", "A Lonely Place For Dying", "Standing Firm", "Divinity: Mask of the Antichrist", and every other movie not only on DVXuser but beyond. And a good heads up, most of the people who really do a lot of this work, don't post out here, but every blue moon. So they are under the radar. I found recently 2 companies in Atlanta (where I am) that make better movies than anyone I knew about. But they had no need for publicity because they were THAT good.

I thank Frank for his comment on my posts, and with that said, you need to do movies because of love. Otherwise you may not finish. It's not like videography. I've done videography, photography, worked on short films, starting to work on music videos, worked as a Stage Manager for 3 TV shows, etc and nothing prepares you for a 90 minute feature. And you don't know that you messed up until it's too late. Then you say to yourself "Oh well, I'll get that right in the next movie" :)

If you start a movie, because I definately think it's a great thing. I love it. So if you start be prepared for the following:
Problems with finding the "Right" people. People who want to work, but know they may not get paid or will get paid very little. This is both Actors and Crew
Doing most of the work yourself. Unpaid/low pay people don't like to work.
Getting little to no good critism on your screenplay (which is where you need it most)
Having a hard time locking down locations
Battling the weather and neighbors - because you don't have the grip trucks that can save you with work arounds
Spending hours / weeks online trying to understand the basics of good everything
Spending months editing
Spending weeks color correcting
Spending weeks doing audio work
Looking at rough drafts getting excited about the movie, only to watch them 3 weeks later and get upset at all the mistakes you made.
Fighting with everyone from your investors to your family to your actors to your crew trying to hold the glue together to finish the project.
The recognition that no one cares about this project beyond yourself. (I love my folks, but they often make comments like "Your movie", "Your project", "When I can - I'm resting this weekend.")
Preparing to take the pressure from 50+ people looking towards you to make a miracle out of nothing, and everyone around you secretly wanting you to fail because they can't do it and human nature is that we don't want anyone above us.

So when you're cool with all of that and you're ready for a 1 to 2 year Movie Sentence. LOL Then I think you're ready to make a indie movie! And you're welcome to read the 24 Diary where I lay out a plan to actually make it in indie movies. Don't know if the plan is full proof, but we'll see in a few years! :)
 
Yeah the amount of work required would be insane. Even for an 8-page comedy short the time I've put into it already is kind of mind-boggling, considering when you first think about it you think, eh, I'll write the script, that'll take a while, then when it's good I just have to find a few locations and some actors and crew and shoot it. But you forget that hiring about, in this case, 22 people, means lots of meetings, phone calls, resumes, connections, etc. Then the difference between pro work and amateur work is that pro work, every detail is considered, nothing in the shot is there by accident. It's all placed for a reason. So it's an immense amount of work. Then you take a feature film and it's more than ten times that much work because you not only have a lot more content but unlike shorts, when you finish the film it's not like your work is even close to done. It's really just beginning. Great, you have a product, now what? Time to market yourself and your movie, and hope to make your money back.

I don't think I could handle the stress of a feature the way some people shoot their indie features. I at least want to pay everyone enough not to worry too much about people flaking, and get everyone to sign the contracts, etc. Even if it's only $150/day, a lot of people are wanting to get that feature credit and that kinda pay isn't horrid.
 
Good points, everyone, and yes, points I have already pondered to a reasonable extent.
I will do this out of the love of the medium, not for the money. It's how I always work--which is why I never made much money in business for myself.
I'm also a realist: I know that I'm not going to make a "Star Wars" movie, as I don't have the budget for pyrotechnics and heavy special effects.
What I plan to make will resemble a radio play. Back when I was a kid, we didn't have TV. Radio was our only entertainment, aside from the theater. We had shows like Amos & Andy, The Road of Life, Our Gal Sunday, and Scattergood Baines. The stories relied on dialogue and ideas. I think a more modern analog for this would be the first Twilight Zone series at the beginning of the 1960s. Simple sets, minimal to no FX, mostly indoor scenes and heavy reliance on dialog and music.
I have the music studio, and can even produce some soundtrack music myself (although I'm more of an arranger than composer) and for the challenging projects, I have two excellent musician friends who are more than capable of writing epic scores.
My intent is not to write mainstream plots. I want to create something intellectual, thought-provoking, but at the same time suspenseful and engaging. Not quite as minimalist as Jim Henson's The Cube, but similarly economical to produce. I would have maybe 3-4 main characters and limited second-unit shots, to set the context of the story.
The first film will likely be a short. No more than ten minutes long. The 90-minute feature is down the road a ways. But the Short will be difficult to write--making a lot happen and tying it all together in such a short time is a feat of great writing skill. Whether I have that ability remains to be found out.
I have an inn that sponsors my weekly radio broadcast which has expressed an interest in having a movie shot there--it would be great publicity for this quaint New England inn, tucked away in the NW CT wilderness, and would provide a rich set of visuals for our story background. There are options, but one has to be creative to find them.
Of course, my first challenge is to develop the story concept and write the outline and then a script.
It won't be easy--I know that--but since I ain't makin' no money doing service providing, perhaps content generation is the new paradigm.
 
Only one way to find out if you a/ can do it and b/ want to do it. Do it.

I wouldnt worry about this being a 10 year depression, people love to overstate the state of affairs. Get positive people and things can start moving.
 
I have been wanting to do this project since the 1960s, but my career got in the way and I live in the wrong part of the country. But now, with the ability to make my own production, location is not so much an obstacle.
I see my first step to be writing the story, because without a story, there can be no screenplay. So, a compelling and suspenseful story has got to come first. That, right now, is the biggest challenge.
Economic problems, I find, happen in pockets. Some areas are harder hit than others. In Detroit, the local paper has 137 pages of TAX FORECLOSURES. I'd say Detroit is in a depression now. I predict ten years, minimum, because of what Henry Hazlitt taught me about economics in the 1960s and the fact that I see our leadership doing the exact opposite of what needs to be done to allow the markets to correct themselves. FDR made the same mistakes in '33 and we had nearly a decade of depression, instead of a year or two, max. Politicians are too busy greasing eachother to bother reading history, so they make the same dumb mistakes over and over again.
 
For me, the video production business sagging means it's time to consider Plan B -- PORNO. That's where the money is. $100 billion annually. ;) haha, j/k
 
Mark:

If you intend to make your film out of the love of wanting make your film, I say go for it. But if you think you will make any money doing it or will not lose a lot of money doing it, don't do it.

Have you spoke with Faith Granger, she of the Deuce of Spades no budget film? Even Faith said that in real money, her "no budget" film has cost her tens of thousands of dollars.

Nothing wrong with trying to make your first film, just go in with eyes wide open and know what you are getting yourself into. You are playing the national lottery and your chances of even a small payout of almost infintesimal. And the tickets to play this lottery cost a LOT!

Dan
 
Unless we get a grant, there is virtually no cash to be spent. We're talking truly "no budget" here.
I have not spoken with the person you mentioned. Does she consult for independant filmmakers?
I think something can be produced, but it won't be on the level of Star Wars. :)
 
puredrifting said:
Mark:

If you intend to make your film out of the love of wanting make your film, I say go for it. But if you think you will make any money doing it or will not lose a lot of money doing it, don't do it.

Have you spoke with Faith Granger, she of the Deuce of Spades no budget film? Even Faith said that in real money, her "no budget" film has cost her tens of thousands of dollars.

Nothing wrong with trying to make your first film, just go in with eyes wide open and know what you are getting yourself into. You are playing the national lottery and your chances of even a small payout of almost infintesimal. And the tickets to play this lottery cost a LOT!

Dan
Click to expand...

Yeah, I basically think you are right. I mean that's what holds me back from making a feature any time very soon. I want to get myself into better financial circumstances first, which for me means I want to make the cash to go ahead and pay off my entire home mortgage, that way I reduce my overhead a lot, and I can begin putting aside more money for a feature without worrying too much because at least I'll have good assets and no debt, so then if I blew $200,000 on a feature and it made nothing back, yeah I'd be unhappy, I'd be a bit bummed over losing that money, but if the film turned out really good and opened up other avenues that'd at least be something. So I figure I don't want to do a feature until I can afford to lose the money without it altering my lifestyle at all.
 
I think writing a first feature film to make money because business is slow isn't a great idea.

Like many here have said, you are probably not going to get any money from it and if you do, it's not gonna be much money to pay bills with etc.

I'm working on my first feature, but it's my 2nd attempt, i tried early last year, shot 2 hours of footage and had 30 minutes edited and i had to scrap it, too ambitious. lol

This time, i've learnt from before and i have a good idea, but i'm making this film for me, so i can say i've made a feature length film, however i intend on trying to get distrobution, so i'm keeping things in mind like the music & sound mix and the title-less title sequence.

I don't expect to make any money from the film, however i'm gonna try. lol No harm in trying.
 
Nobody makes a first movie with profit in mind. It's fun and it's something for the reel. It makes one look employed during slow times.
 
grinner said:
Nobody makes a first movie with profit in mind. It's fun and it's something for the reel. It makes one look employed during slow times.
Click to expand...

I guess I was wrong in making my first! LOL

On my first movie, I shot in college for $300. I just knew I'd sell it for $100K after all R.Rodriguez had just sold and I could do what he did. - yeah right.

My second movie, I shot for $14,500 after college. I just knew I'd sell for $100K after all I'd learned from my first and R.Rodriguez had sold and I could do what he did - yeah right.

My third movie, I'm shooting for $30,000 right now. And I still want to make some money! LOL

What I've learned is that you have to learn and gain experience. You have to keep getting up and you can't quit. Making it is more about perserverance than anything. I mean I've seen "literal no talent" people "make it" simply by being in the right place at the right time.

And I've even said on this board a couple of times, I've seen people on their first project ever (feature, short) blow my first two movies away. some people are just that good out of the starting gate. I've had to "catch up" but at least I didn't quit.

Basspig you might make some money, but its' unlikely. Not because you don't have talent, moreso because of the hurdle of knowledge that nothing can prepare you for.
 
Look at "Fragile - a Gost Story" .

Also "The Orphanage" and "The Others".

That might give you some inspiration for your film.

They all mede it straight to my personal top 10 movies.

I´m in the same boat. I do 2 more short films and than I try to raise some money at film founds
to do my first feature.

Frank
 
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