Wedding videography question - How much is too much?

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infurno

Active member
Our production equipment is geared to narrative filmmaking, including camera gear.

We have been getting requests for weddings and I don't mind, especially since some are close friends. It is important to us that we provide the highest quality product possible and we set high expectations for ourselves. Ideally I would like a camera package with a 35mm adapter, mattebox + filters, follow focus, LCD, shoulder mount rods, and steadicam at the ready. There would be other HDV cameras on the floor at the same time.

We have shot live events with this configuration before and we are equipped to manage it.

Obviously it's a good idea to first consult with the location and organizers.


Here is my silly question... Would it be appropriate for us to show up with this behemoth or is keeping a low profile just as important as a high quality video?

Presentation always plays a part in impressions and if we were to show up with a set of HV20 cameras for example some clients may be concerned. How much is too much and how little is too little?
 
I think keeping a low profile at the wedding is essential, you are not shooting a movie and if you show up with all that gear everyone will think it's over the top. Most people i've shot weddings for say the camera puts them off and remember they won't know what all that gears for.

As long as the picture is clear and the sound is clear then people who view it will be happy.
 
To be honest, I, Myself have shown up with all the bells and whistles and also with the bear minimum. So all i have to say is what mama says, "its better to be prepared for anything than to prepare for just enough".. as long as the equipment your not using is stored away and not seen, you know you're covered for anything and trust me, anything can happen at a wedding.
 
you know you're covered for anything and trust me, anything can happen at a wedding.
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So true...anything can happen at weddings! However, remember that the focus should be on the couple getting married, that's the point of the whole event after all. A good wedding video crew should be nearly invisible, taking extreme care not to distract people from the main event; the union of two people! With what you have access to, I would take a compromise, bring some of the toys but leave others at home. Also, remember most people are uncomfortable being on camera, so large rigs with focus rods and Noga arms are going to scare them.
 
If somone notices a camera at a wedding, it's too much.
It's the bride's day. All eyes have to be on her.

Presentation is fine on production shoots but the opposite of impressive at a wedding.
 
grinner said:
If somone notices a camera at a wedding, it's too much.
It's the bride's day. All eyes have to be on her.

Presentation is fine on production shoots but the opposite of impressive at a wedding.
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This methodology of thinking is quickly becoming outdated and is slowly becoming relegated to the lower end wedding videography market.

If you use a steadicam, 35mm adapter or a jib at a wedding, it's going to be noticed.

Everyone's eyes should be on the bride, yes but yours should be focused on getting the best shots. Being "invisible" or "unobtrusive" all the time won't get you the best material to work with.

:beer:
 
ProjX v2.0 said:
This methodology of thinking is quickly becoming outdated and is slowly becoming relegated to the lower end wedding videography market.

If you use a steadicam, 35mm adapter or a jib at a wedding, it's going to be noticed.

Everyone's eyes should be on the bride, yes but yours should be focused on getting the best shots. Being "invisible" or "unobtrusive" all the time won't get you the best material to work with.

:beer:
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I would agree with this as well...some of the best weddings I ever shot were situations where the B&G and their associated families were a bit more knowledgeable about what they wanted their end product to look like, and accepted that in order to get there they would "see" us from time to time during the day...
 
I did a wedding once with a dvx way in the back and 2 handycams on small tripods, hidden up near the altar in / behind some plants. Brought it into FCP multicam. Wasn't exactly cinema quality but we had more angles which stood out from the other videos.

Grinner is absolutely right... low profile, all eyes on the Bride
 
infurno said:
Ideally I would like a camera package with a 35mm adapter, mattebox + filters, follow focus, LCD, shoulder mount rods, and steadicam at the ready.
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With the exception of a steadicam, all the adapter stuff seems unnecessary and an extra burden, especially if you are shooting by yourself. But since you will have other cameras then maybe dedicate one to the 35mm adapter and steadicam rig, while the others can do the standard coverage. If you have at least one extra person to shoot with you, then you can focus on the artsy shots with the loaded camera rig. It would suck to miss something important because you are messing around with changing lenses or mattebox filters or are trying to dial in focus but have to open the 35mm lens all the way because of low light.

If you absolutely must have some shots with a 35mm DoF, and are shooting solo, then you could have one camera with the naked stock lens for the bread and butter shots and a second camera with the adapter already mounted and setup so that you can just grab it when you need it for a specific shot.

As for the size being too big with the adapter it could depend on the client. If you are using an XH-A1, HMC150, or EX1 plus adapter then it shouldn't be too much bigger. If you are already using a big honkin' shoulder mount, ENG-style camera plus an adapter then yeah, that might seem a bit obtrusive. I'd also double check with the client to make sure you will have enough extra time to get the 35mm adapter/steadicam rig properly setup then broken down and then re-setup between the ceremony and reception.

For me personally, with the light loss, weight, and cumbersomeness of an adapter with all the fixings it just seems like an extra burden that in the long run isn't worth it. Unless you have lots of time with the bridal party after the photographer has finished getting all they need, and trust me they'll take up almost all your time for any special shots you want to do, then I'd say leave the adapter at home or charge extra for the 35mm DoF look. If you are going to be doing the extra work to give their video the added visual value, you should be able to make more $$$$ on it.

ProjX v2.0 said:
This methodology of thinking is quickly becoming outdated and is slowly becoming relegated to the lower end wedding videography market.

If you use a steadicam, 35mm adapter or a jib at a wedding, it's going to be noticed.
Click to expand...

There is a difference between using a hand held HV20, a DVX on a tripod with a light, an HPX500, and a decked out Red One. Most people are going to notice every single one of these except maybe the HV20, which they might mistake you as a guest because of the size and no tripod or light. I think that there is a range of minimal obtrusiveness that is acceptable. A DVX, XH-A1, HMC150, HVX, EX1, etc... will all fit into this range. Once you start to add in a large ENG-style camera then the boundary starts to get pushed. A fully decked out motion picture camera, whether film or digital just seems like you are asking for trouble. Even if the bride says okay in your initial meeting, guests might complain about the big camera and then you will hear about it from the bride later on.

The other thing to remember is that you will be shooting all day, possibly without a break until dinner at the reception. A DVX or any similarly sized camera with just the stock lens allows you to be flexible and is not a physical burden. You can use a steadicam, monopod, hand held, or tripod and move between these different methods in seconds. Okay maybe the steadicam will take a few minutes, but these methods will cover about all you will need for 99% of the wedding. Sure, a jib shot or a dolly tracking shot might be nice here or there, but it is kinda pointless except for maybe posed shots that you might have time to do before the ceremony or after the ceremony and before the reception. I doubt that the bride and groom want a booming jib hovering around them like some crazy robot while they have their first dance. And I haven't even mentioned the safety concerns all this extra gear adds.
 
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I've always been a fan of being a low-profile shooter. I don't think having a lot of gear around is a big deal, as long as you're not moving around a lot, creating attention away from the action...

Sometimes I see wedding samples with crazy movements around the church. It looks amazing...but if I were a participant at the wedding, I would HATE for a videographer to be in my way! So, I say put yourself in the bride or groom's shoes (or maybe even their parents' shoes) and film how they would like you to film...
 
I was just asked to do a wedding yesterday. I declined. I really need to go to a few with a "crew" and see how they are shot. I have enough gear to do it. But you are messing around with people's memories. I am not even trying to Eff that up.
 
Depends on what the customers want, I guess.

I shot a christening ceremony of a friends daughter recently. He had asked me if I would shoot it and he gave me his camera, which is a Sony DXC D50 shoulder mount with a 6mm broadcast wide angle zoom. Also a 50W ianiro light with softbox and a battery belt. Not exactly low profile. Even less so because the cristening took place in a really small room inside the chapel.
However, he wanted me to shoot it, so I did. And because almost 50% of the guests were somehow involved in the tv business, they didn't mind the huge camera either.

Anyone else would have thrown me out after 5 minutes, I guess, I must have been a huge distraction from the christening - but it was what the parents wanted, so why not?
 
ProjX v2.0 said:
This methodology of thinking is quickly becoming outdated and is slowly becoming relegated to the lower end wedding videography market.

If you use a steadicam, 35mm adapter or a jib at a wedding, it's going to be noticed.

Everyone's eyes should be on the bride, yes but yours should be focused on getting the best shots. Being "invisible" or "unobtrusive" all the time won't get you the best material to work with.

:beer:
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If you use a jib, steadicam or 35mm adapters, you should be shooting productions with budget, not weddings. Piss off the mother of the bride once and a check aint comin' your way. lol
If justifying budget on a big shoot, the more bodies and bells and whistles to justify budget the better. If shooting a wedding, the opposite mentality is required. You are a fly on the wall documenting an already expensive day perhaps half the people there are happy about. PLay hollywood on such a day and you will indeed be temporary.
 
I shot weddings and events for 10 years in NY (in addition to corporate and commercial stuff).

My opinion was and is (unless otherwise specified by the bride and groom or whomever was paying for it) that, when shooting the event, the room should be MORE empty with you in it.

It is a true art to get the emotion and beauty of the day with just your cam, light, wireless mic and nothing else.
Work on that craft and you'll be amazed at the gems you uncover when you are forced to disappear and still produce the shot.
 
You do not need a lot gear these days to film a wedding, just make what gear you bring count or leave it in the car. We travel with our 2 dvx cameras, lights for the reception only, wireless mics, tripods for steady shots and a monopod to capture all the high angle stuff and of course who could be with out the glidecam. Plus the tapes, batteries, chargers, etc. My husband I can manage everything ourselves with just 1 trip to the car and back. Most of the time the photographer has more equipment than we do.

I think you do need to pose a few clever shots of the bride and groom, however. You don't see the photographer just leaving things to chance and hoping he catches everything. Most our brides have several photo sessions with the photographers along with the candids in between.

I am always on the lookout for kodak moments that I can film without bothering anyone. My husband and I capture many moments without being in anyones way at all. While it shouldn't be a production set, I think things are changing as far as wedding videos today. Some brides want a little more production so they can have some really cool videos to show off. We always explain to them if they want all those really cool shots, you have to plan a little. Just communicating with your bride and asking them what they want is important. Most of our brides want fun, mtv type of stuff, which requires a little more than just standing there in the background capturing video.


When I watch one of our credit rolls at the end of a finished wedding, I am always amazed that it was just the two of us filming everything. With just a sketch of a script, a beautiful storyline, good equipment, strong arms, lots of endurance and a passion for filming weddings, we end up with a pretty darn good movie full of lots of candid moments, some planned shots and plenty emotion for our brides to enjoy for years to come.

Kim
 
grinner said:
If you use a jib, steadicam or 35mm adapters, you should be shooting productions with budget, not weddings. Piss off the mother of the bride once and a check aint comin' your way. lol
If justifying budget on a big shoot, the more bodies and bells and whistles to justify budget the better. If shooting a wedding, the opposite mentality is required. You are a fly on the wall documenting an already expensive day perhaps half the people there are happy about. PLay hollywood on such a day and you will indeed be temporary.
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Not only is this incredibly out of touch with the industry, it is just plain ignorant. There are many different styles and approaches, all of which attract a certain clientele or demographic- so why speak in such absolutes?

We use adapters, steadicam, sliders- many different tools that facilitate the story we are commissioned to tell. We try to be as discrete as possible, but we are not there to pretend we don't exist. The reaction to us on the wedding day and the reaction to our finished product (either a same-day edit or a finished wedding film) is exponentially more favorable than that of a budget videographer who creates an uninspiring piece.

The perception of us, the effect our work has had on the guests, our couples, and the industry, all of which are incredibly positive - are all a direct result of how we approach everything we do- and that involves some advanced imaging tools.

The paradigm of wedding videography that you so excellently exemplified is a large reason why our industry has the lack of respect and value it does.

P.
StillMotion
 
Hey Stillmotion,
just wanted to say I've seen your stuff, and your an inspiration! As a fellow wedding videographer, my aim is get those beautiful sweeping shots this summer. Your shots made me realize the effect that a steadicam, rails, and 35mm adapters can make. I too, think brides are changing, they are less 'camera shy' and a little more tech savey these days.
 
stillmotion said:
(...) The reaction to us on the wedding day and the reaction to our finished product (either a same-day edit or a finished wedding film) is exponentially more favorable than that of a budget videographer who creates an uninspiring piece.
(...)
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That's no wonder because your work puts most filmmakers to shame. When I first saw your website I couldn't believe these were really wedding videos because they were so good.
To everyone who doesn't know the work of stillmotion - go to stillmotion.ca and watch in awe! Seriously, great stuff!
 
I don't mind looking big at an even but not all cinema gear is tailored for event shooting.

I'd say don't shoot with a 35mm adapter or steadicam unless you have a dedicated cam for beauty shots. If you are just trying to cover an event then you want the most versatile lens possible which you can only get on a smaller sensor size lens. Also don't set up too many lights; it will ruin the ambiance of the actual event and only talent should have to be punished by bright lights.

That being said, if the client wants all the bells and whistles then you can add a cinema theme to the wedding if they don't mind it being part of their day. I had a jib at my wedding for wide shots but didn't want a 35mm adapter since there would definitely be missed moments.

You also might want to consider what frame rate you are shooting at. For me 30P is the way to go. 24P is not meant for fast action and uncontrolled camera work, and the default shutter speed at 30P is 1/30th (even though I like to shoot at 1/60th) as compared to 24Ps 1/48th. So 30P will alot you more light which is a commodity at events.
 
stillmotion said:
There are many different styles and approaches, all of which attract a certain clientele or demographic- so why speak in such absolutes?
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I think this sums it up pretty well. I only shoot weddings for friends, for free, so take my opinion with as many grains of salt as you need to... :D

There are probably always going to be clients (and, maybe even more important, officiants) who want you to be less than a fly on the wall--and I've been the guy who's treated like a leper just because he dared to bring a camera inside God's house. But it also makes sense that, given the constant lowering of prices on higher-end video equipment, not to mention the "reality-show-ization" of society, it makes sense that there's going to be an increasing number of people (and, again, officiants) who are OK with--or even asking for/demanding--something more. (As evidenced by those in this thread who are "pushing the envelope" beyond the traditional "wedding video.") I've done a couple of weddings where I could have brought anything I wanted and nobody would have cared. Honestly, the last one I did (which I knew would be in the latter category) I wanted to get a little more "cinematic" and such (or at least try :) ), but then I wound up in the wedding party, and one of our DVX's got stolen, and everything was just pretty much against me.

The question is, can you do both? Or are you better served sticking to one of these demographics?
 
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