If actors are bad - is it the Director's fault?

You know the one thing i find interesting about this thread is hearing that actors blame the director. I guess I have never heard it and I can only think of one time where I might blame the director for my footage...other than that...if I suck, I blame myself...now and then I blame an editor for picking bad footage...

I guess I still see it as a team and each of us needs to pull our weight. But when the public talk about a film I seldom hear them say "that director sucked" but I often hear "Joe Blow (insert actors name there) was not good in that film".

I don't think the public really think about that as much...unless they are a movie hound who follows certain directors and there are lots of those out there too!
 
Michele Seidman said:
I guess I still see it as a team and each of us needs to pull our weight. But when the public talk about a film I seldom hear them say "that director sucked" but I often hear "Joe Blow (insert actors name there) was not good in that film".

I don't think the public really think about that as much...unless they are a movie hound who follows certain directors and there are lots of those out there too!
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ya that's what i think too. there's more famous actors than there are famous directors. famous in terms of worldwide name recognition. that's probably why the typical fan thinks if a movie sucks then it's because of the actor for some reason. comments like this - "ah man, that last Edward Norton movie 'Pride & Glory' wasn't all that good" you won't hear them say the director's name unless the name is popular enough.
 
I can't believe that clip! What an a**hole. Okay, I'm an actor, hell I'm even a potentially moody actor sometimes, but that's ridiculous! I just can't believe that. I have lost any respect I had for Christian Bale (which was never that much, he's not a very good actor in my opinion). I'm just shocked. I would NEVER behave like that on a set or stage.
 
Michele Seidman said:
You know the one thing i find interesting about this thread is hearing that actors blame the director. I guess I have never heard it and I can only think of one time where I might blame the director for my footage...other than that...if I suck, I blame myself...now and then I blame an editor for picking bad footage...

I guess I still see it as a team and each of us needs to pull our weight. But when the public talk about a film I seldom hear them say "that director sucked" but I often hear "Joe Blow (insert actors name there) was not good in that film".
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Unfortunately I think certain actors perform better under certain directors. I feel that some actors need "direction" others don't. In my movie, some actors I had to work with a lot, some I had to keep under control, and others I had to do nothing but say "action." Clint Eastwood talked about how some actors need more help than others. So if the acting is bad, is it the director's fault? I'd definately say sometimes, but sometimes it's not.

I do believe in the collabo notion. And the editing can truly hurt a scene. One of my actresses was going through an emotional piece. what I found out was that she could take "direction" in the middle of the scene, by watching me out of her perfireal (sp?) vision. I was trying to slow her down as she was crying too fast (if that makes since) My DP thought it was so funny that she could be directed this way that he kept laughing at the situation. When we got into the editing room, only half the scene was good because of the DPs laughter. She can act, but when people see the scene, they may think she can't.
 
Mickey Munday said:
u can make it better by knowing how to deal with bullshi* like this: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090203/ap_en_mo/people_christian_bale

i wonder how james cameron handled this? and where was he during this? http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_audio/020209_christianbale.mp3
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The director listed as, Joseph "McG" McGinty Nichol from the wiki article, didn't seem to step up to the 'captain of the ship', that one would expect, and put down the mutinous crew interaction...

If I understand the audio clip correctly, the DoP was 'adjusting a light' and was the causal element in the Bale.

Now one can wonder why was the DoP adjusting a light while a shot was being taken... unless of course, it was unclear if 'action' had been called, which is the Director's perogative... unless of course, Bale demanded that the camera roll... which is superceding the Director... and in part, seems to be a likely situation, given that during the tirade, Bale repeatedly said 'start shooting' while someone in the background, perhaps the pusillanimous director, was trying to call 'time out'...

Sounds like the production got a wimpy director, just to fill the position, who couldn't keep the set under control...
 
I made the mistake of letting a Producer have final say on a casting for a drama. I was literally railroaded by the casting director and the money men. Having trained as an Actor myself I thought I could raise something out of them. The whole cast were semi professional and on the day the one person I was against casting, brought the whole production down. They say that Actors performances gravitate towards the most experienced on set, semi-pro Actors can shine when working with a professional. On my shoot gravity did happen, everything spiraled downwards. I tried desperately to save the situation but a knock on situation began to unravel. You can’t afford to loose confidence on set as everyone looks towards you to steer the production to glory. Granted this was earlier on in my career and my inexperience of such situations didn’t help but I learnt a very valuable lesson. I remember stating my serious concern to the Producer at their initial decision with an attitude of “Don’t blame me if things go wrong” but of course that was my deathblow mistake. I should have stayed by ground because I eventually got the blame for it anyway. People have very short memories in this business and ultimately as the Director you are to blame for the final product. My advice, NEVER put your name to a cast or script that you’re not happy with, in the long term it will hurt you. If you want to experiment with Actors or untried production methods do it on your own dime. You’re only as good as the work you produce. I’m still learning by my mistakes but I vow never to repeat them.

J.p.
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
The director listed as, Joseph "McG" McGinty Nichol from the wiki article, didn't seem to step up to the 'captain of the ship', that one would expect, and put down the mutinous crew interaction...

If I understand the audio clip correctly, the DoP was 'adjusting a light' and was the causal element in the Bale.

Now one can wonder why was the DoP adjusting a light while a shot was being taken... unless of course, it was unclear if 'action' had been called, which is the Director's perogative... unless of course, Bale demanded that the camera roll... which is superceding the Director... and in part, seems to be a likely situation, given that during the tirade, Bale repeatedly said 'start shooting' while someone in the background, perhaps the pusillanimous director, was trying to call 'time out'...

Sounds like the production got a wimpy director, just to fill the position, who couldn't keep the set under control...
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ah, i misread imdb, it looked like cameron was listed as director. i've never heard of McG.

here's a question to everybody - how would you have handled that situation with Bale lashing out like that and when you try to calm him down he spazzes out on you too like in the clip? the clip leaks out in the press and the first thing people want to know is - who was directing this ???

let's say Bale keeps this up throughout the entire film and makes your life as a director a living a hell and as a result the film suffers...is it still the director's fault?
 
rsbush said:
"How can I make it better?" The only question that matters.
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here here...ditto that!

armisiano said:
I can't believe that clip! What an a**hole. Okay, I'm an actor, hell I'm even a potentially moody actor sometimes, but that's ridiculous! I just can't believe that. I have lost any respect I had for Christian Bale (which was never that much, he's not a very good actor in my opinion). I'm just shocked. I would NEVER behave like that on a set or stage.
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agreed "what an a**hole"...that was uncalled for on his part.

jls4 said:
Unfortunately I think certain actors perform better under certain directors. I feel that some actors need "direction" others don't. .............So if the acting is bad, is it the director's fault? I'd definately say sometimes, but sometimes it's not...................I do believe in the collabo notion. And the editing can truly hurt a scene.
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agreed on certain actors with certain directors. and some take direction well and others don't.

and editing can honestly make or break a film in my book but again i don't think the general audience thinks in those terms...i think we think it and know it...but i don't think the general audience does.
 
Zak Forsman said:
you've never heard of McG?
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No, and probably since I really only saw each of the 'Charlie's Angels' films once, perhaps on a trans Atlantic or Pacific flight, probably have no detailed recollection of either... other than Drew being Drew... or whatever...

And the DoP in question, Shane Hurlbut, according to IMDB has only been the DoP on one movie I've seen to date, "Swing Vote"(2008), which I just saw coming back from Vienna... on a 12 hour flight... so I don't really have a detailed recollection of that one either...
 
Mickey Munday said:
let's say Bale keeps this up throughout the entire film and makes your life as a director a living a hell and as a result the film suffers...is it still the director's fault?
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That's when Allen Smithie takes over as Director, the previous director having left over 'creative differences'...

Depending on how 'hungry' one is for the A-listship of directing, one will present any number of orifices to satisfy any primal urges on the part of the powers that be... and who knows, have surgery to provide new and novel orifices if the occasion requires...

As for my own short films, I'm tending to select actors and actresses who are not experienced. Perhaps it may be the blind leading the blind, but at least we are at the same level in the nurseryschool of filmmaking...

As for what to do on the set... that may be dependent on the contract. If the contract says The Talent can pretty much act like an asshole and not be in breach of contract for holding up production, then perhaps the best way to 'solve' the situation is to attempt some form of 'polite' intervention... if the contract does have a powerful breach clause, then start waving that around and use the stick if necessary.
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
That's when Allen Smithie takes over as Director, the previous director having left over 'creative differences'...

Depending on how 'hungry' one is for the A-listship of directing, one will present any number of orifices to satisfy any primal urges on the part of the powers that be... and who knows, have surgery to provide new and novel orifices if the occasion requires...

As for my own short films, I'm tending to select actors and actresses who are not experienced. Perhaps it may be the blind leading the blind, but at least we are at the same level in the nurseryschool of filmmaking...

As for what to do on the set... that may be dependent on the contract. If the contract says The Talent can pretty much act like an asshole and not be in breach of contract for holding up production, then perhaps the best way to 'solve' the situation is to attempt some form of 'polite' intervention... if the contract does have a powerful breach clause, then start waving that around and use the stick if necessary.
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Hmm, I've often heard new directors say they want to work with "people around the same level of experience," but to me it often comes across as somewhat of a lack of humility. Like they don't want to have to admit, ok I really don't know what I'm doing fully, and I don't want any embarrassing moments with professionals on set where I have to apologize for not knowing something. For me, I have always wanted to work with people far more experienced than me. I would never even consider hiring someone with 3-4 times as much experience as me. They should have far more than that. I've only been doing film for less than two years now, and haven't been on frequent shoots like some people in crews because I'm a director-producer, so I try to hire people with a vast amount of experience who are also easy to work with so that whatever mistakes I make can be partially covered by the crew. Sure, there are moments where it's humbling, because I am not used to being the n00b, but that happened when I started martial arts too, you get over it and pretty soon you're an expert.

Now I definitely want to work with actors who have better experience, so that my lack of experience working with actors can be somewhat overshadowed by their talents and skills. They'll make me look good, too, but also give me an opportunity to learn more about working with "real" actors, i.e. professionals, union actors, etc.
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
As for my own short films, I'm tending to select actors and actresses who are not experienced. Perhaps it may be the blind leading the blind, but at least we are at the same level in the nurseryschool of filmmaking...
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dang...trying to figure out how to say this and not come off wrong...but seriously? you would avoid someone who knew more about acting on film just because you are new?

again..trying to say all of this right but dude...so wrong...so very wrong. i may not be a star or an A list'er but i have done all of this for over 30 years and i LOVE doing indie and student film and LOVE helping bring UP the younger cast or being the experienced one who listens to the director and helps get the new actors to listen by leading by example.

ok..once on a short film i did take a student director aside (out of ear shot of everyone) and make a suggestion. he kindly said he did not agree. so i backed off, kept smiling...did the film...did exactly what he said...and then...in post...he saw what i meant.

it was really cute when he came up to me later and said (out of ear shot to everyone) that i was right and it was too late to fix it but he learned and would avoid that particular pit fall again.

i have done a few other projects with him and he has gotten better each time without my saying a word and just following his direction. he has sold a few projects and is directing a pretty cool new show for a network that i can't say a word about. NO i am not in this one. i was not right for it and no worries because i know he will call me when there is something right...

but the point i am making...to avoid an actor who has worked more than you...well...kind of silly. you never know who might be very willing to be there for you and you just threw them all out the door because they have a bigger resume than you.

what will you do if you got lucky and landed a feature film and they got someone like...lets' say Dennis Hopper or Harrison Ford who not only was willing to act in it but could help the project get more funding and better distribution deals?

are you going to say no to directing it?

does all that make sense without coming off wrong? i am just trying to suggest you might consider opening up to people who have done more work...you might grow faster that way too. not saying doing it the way you are is always blind leading the blind..but you did make that comment, so you must have considered that is a possibility!
 
I agree with Jonathan and Michele. If an actor has talent and a solid technique, they'll create a reality which will pull a less experienced actor into it. Don't short change yourself or your project. Always go for the best you can get.
 
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[beating a dead horse] your film is only as good as you and the people working on it with you [/dead horse beat to death]
 
I like working with the most experienced and talented people I can find. I prefer not to let anyone on set that has little to no talent. Just doesn't make me or the production better. But being in a constant state of learning, is the best way - in my mind - to succeed over the long haul.

I mean that's why I come to DVXuser - to meet up with people and learn from their experiences and wisdom.
 
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