Letus relases 2/3 B4 Relay Lenses

Postmaster

Postmaster

Dark Side of the Camera
"We are very please to announce that the B4 relays are available to be ordered. This will be pre-order only and shipping time will be about mid March.

We have 2 versions, Pro version and Compact verison.

Pro version has 12 glass elements and Compact Version has 9. Pro version is F/1.5 while Compact version is F/1.8. Both versions are very sharp and even the Compact is already brighter than P+S Pro35.

Thank you,

Hien Le
Letus Corporation
President"



http://www.letus35.com/cart/Letus-2-3-B4-Pro-Relay-Lens.html
 
right... i was excited until i saw prices.... this is getting riduculous, letus ultimate for 4500$ ? now relay lens for 6000 ??? come on.... balde offers the same for 2x less... and relay lens was planned 4500, now it gets to 6000$... this is just insane. and cannot guarantee compatibility with other adapters. ???
 
Tomas Riuka said:
balde offers the same for 2x less... and relay lens was planned 4500, now it gets to 6000$... this is just insane. and cannot guarantee compatibility with other adapters. ???
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The same? Hardly. The Ultimate is still the better adapter, and it costs more as should be expected. Plus there are two versions of the relay, one is $3500 and one if $6000. So depend on which way you look at it Letus just went under their projected price. And as to compatibility, that's a development choice. You can either have a relay that doesn't perform its best but tends to be more compatible or you can have one that's optimized for a particular adapter.
 
So its only academy format... which is 21.8mm x 12.3mm... not even a Super 35 which is 24mm x 13.5mm, no word for full frame 35 36mm x 24mm...

Hmm... it does have a crop factor... and its a BIG one....

They don't guaranty the performance with other adapters ?!...

Any footage? to check out performance?
 
Ok, i understand your point of view to justify the price. What about this:
4500 letus ultimate + 6000 relay lens = 10 500 + shipping to Europe + VAT and that equals to around 13 000$. No normal service, because if you need express service, sending it forth and back by fedex will cost minimum 500$. So price is almost the same as pro 35 and what about reliability?

Our local guys shot full feature with letus, it took two letuses to finish the movie, and the second barely made it. Letus forum has a number of people complaining they can't stop past 5.6 or increase shutter... there are issues for sure.

I could talk about zacuto, it's pricey, but there is no discussion, quality is super, lifetime warranty, you get what you pay for. As for letus ultimate, i just can't justify the price, especially 1 year warranty, a product for such amount, should have at least 3 year warranty and free shipping back. I'm willing to spend 3000-3500$ for pro version of relay, but not 6000, and i am sure, that i'm not the only one thinking like this...
 
It won't most likely, or complete working kit will cost much more, but still... i am the person who buys quality stuff, but the product has to justify the amount of money spent for it.
 
Tomas Riuka said:
4500 letus ultimate + 6000 relay lens = 10 500 + shipping to Europe + VAT and that equals to around $13,000.
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Postmaster said:
And suddenley a Scarlet looks cheap (if it ever shows up at that price).
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Tomas Riuka said:
It won't most likely, or complete working kit will cost much more, but still... i am the person who buys quality stuff, but the product has to justify the amount of money spent for it.
Click to expand...

There was a DP who used the RED on a couple of projects and he said he could get it in working order for around $25,000. Sure it wouldn't be perfect, but you could shoot reliably with it. Taking what you said above, let's put this in even better perspective.

Ultimate + Relay = ....$10,500
Ex3 = ........................$8,200
Batteries / Cards........$1,600
Nikon Lens Set...........$1,500
Total...........................$21,800 (give or take $300)
Max Resolution 1920x1080p
Compresses light into 11/12 stops of visible light
1+ stops of light loss, (Relay, Ultimate)
You'll need a $800 PC / $1800 Mac to process data
You'll need 3TB of space to edit, plus backups
Color comes out virtually perfect if using a setting

RED One Camera......$17,500
RED Power Pack ......$1,450
RED Pro LCD.............$2,500
2 16 GB Cards..........$1,000
RED CF Module.........$500
Nikon Lens Set.........$1,500
Total.........................$24,450 (give or take $500)
Max Resolution 4096x2048p RED RAW Encoding
Contains uncompressed 12 stops of visible light
No light loss
You'll need a $1200PC / $4000 Mac to process data
You'll need 4 x 3TB (res 3 times higher) 6-12TB of space, plus backups
You'll definately need to color correct

These are just some of the challenges. If you wanted to go RED, you'll probably come out more than a few thousand dollars unless you own everything already. It's probably more of a $7,000+ cost. At 1080p the images, based on people who've done tests are almost identical exept for REDs adjustment ability. At 4K no one can deny film resolution. Also Bokeh and other problems are solved.

The Letus way is to take a good camera and convert it into a motion picture camera. The RED way is to skip the conversion - but it costs more money upfront to do so. For cinematographers, the RED will probably get you more work. Also if the scarlet comes in even $6K cheaper, it makes this whole argument a moot point. If Scarlett comes in fullyworking with everything above that I talked about for the RED for under $20K, it's definately the way to go. 5K for $20K is better than even the current RED - a no brainer.
 
I´m dacore but one point: 12000 PC.

I build my PCs to my needs by myself and made a quad machine with 2 TB and all you need to handle Red material for about 2500,-

Additional storage is about 90 Euros per TB in the moment.

Don´t want that to become a MAC vs. PC battle, but building your on editing PC blows any MAC out of the water (price wise).

Frank
 
let's not get offtopic....

talking letus, i do think it's too expensive, way too expensive. It does not cost to produce letus ultimate 4x more than letus extreme, i can imagine twice the price, but not 4x...

Of course, you can compare to Pro35 and european pricing, but i wonder how many units they sell ?? 1, 2 per month ? we got one in our whole country, and i bet we had 5 if the price was lower.

I think what market needs is cheaper alternatives for pro35, not same product at the same price, which is highly unreasonable. I really hope that letus will reconsider it's pricing ,
especially in the atmosphere of economic crisis.
 
i believe, that once canon puts the mark 5 into a video body, we will no longer see adapter companies gauge. this is why i think these prices have gotten off the chart, because they know that someone wiil do this soon.
 
I'd have to agree, It feels like we are really on the verge of some big changes. Whether thats the new red cameras actually coming out or some other company who who doesn't hype stuff actually releasing a red killer in the next year. The technology is here now and all thats holding it back is the people making it. Its hard to justify a big purchase like this right now when it will most likely be obsolete in a couple years and when it costs as much as what's already available its a hard pill to swallow.
 
Not many people can afford to spend to $10K on a 35mm adapter solution. That's a given. Letus may be thinking more of vendors who cater to the rental market - the same market that P+S Pro35 caters to. It's a great rental solution - it's cheaper than the red, works with existing proven technology, on rental 2/3" HD video cameras like the F900R, Varicam, etc.
Letus and Cinevate must realize that many of their customers are looking to rent these combinations out - they would be foolish to think that in this economy, as camera technology is very much in flux, that there would be a whole lotta people willing to empty their banks or credit cards for personal gear expenses.
 
Tomas Riuka said:
let's not get offtopic....

talking letus, i do think it's too expensive, way too expensive. It does not cost to produce letus ultimate 4x more than letus extreme, i can imagine twice the price, but not 4x...

I think what market needs is cheaper alternatives for pro35, not same product at the same price, which is highly unreasonable. I really hope that letus will reconsider it's pricing , especially in the atmosphere of economic crisis.
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I don't think it's off topic to talk about workflow. There's no point in going say RED, if one can't handle RED's workflow. The whole argument for a pro35 or any adapter are these facts:
  • Film and Film Cameras are expensive
  • Film Processing is expensive
  • High Defintion for the Big Screen must be 720p or more (to taste)
  • Smaller Depth of Field is desired
So to talk adapters is to talk cameras which in turn is to talk workflow. I agree with you that I think there should be better, cheaper alternatives, but since I have not manufactured anything and don't know the cost in materials or labor, it's hard for me to judge.

Personally, I'm moving to hype up a EX1 and not worry about the relay thing and just loose a small amount of sharpness and light. But this is my personal take, since I've run into people using the HVX and putting it on the big screen with it's 960x540 chips. If they can do this, then I feel even if one looses say 10% sharpness at 1080p they are still okay at 972 Horiz pixels.

The relay while a great idea, only works if the relay and adapter together are less than $5K, IMO. Once I go for a $8K camera + batteries and lenses fo rthe adapter, paying more than $5K becomes a mute point. When I can just charge up a credit card for a small amount more and be on a truly professional level without question, light loss, sharpness loss, etc.

So to bring it full circle - I applaud Letus for their work, however I agree that the price points of their new products are too high for users like myself. Personally now I'm looking more towards the new SG Blade with the old GG to get cinematic Bokeh. If money came in for me to spend $22K on a setup, I'd skip the smaller chip cameras altogether and go straight for a RED.
 
I still buy a RED.

I sell my HPX500 and leave the adapter world behind. I did use the Letus Extreme and the Movietube JR. But now it's time to move on.
There are some high profile commercial shootings and some music videos coming my way. So It's time to get my tools ready anyway.

Peter


P.S. Anyone interested in buying HPX500 here in Europe?
 
I believe the B4 relay lenses are being produced for those who already own 2/3" cameras and rental houses. Here is my view of pricing:

Letus Ultimate, at $4500, includes a $359 PL mount and shipping case. It allows shooting at ANY F-stop without seeing GG grain, however my tests show that 1/500th is the fastest shutter speed without seeing GG grain. It is a very sharp and fast, flexible DOF adapter. It is available
in Europe, as are the B4 Relays, at Mitcorp and they will provide service.

Letus Compact B4 Relay lens is $1000 less than announced at NAB last year and faster than a Pro35 with quality above what Hien originally expected.

Letus Pro B4 Relay lens(when used with an Ultimate) is intended for rental houses wanting to offer a highend alternative than a Pro35 which still costs less to purchase.

We have ordered the Compact B4 Relay because it is 68mm long vs. 125mm, still fast and high quality, and allows us to offer our Ultimate/B4 Relay solution for only $250/day with PL, Nikon and Canon lens mounts. This compares favorably quality wise to a Pro35 with a day rate of around $375/day.

The 1/2" Relay lens for the EX3 is not available yet and pricing is unknown.

Bottom line for me is that, already having invested in 2/3" cameras and an Ultimate, the Compact B4 Relay lens makes good business sense. The RED ONE is probably the very worst camera solution for my corporate, broadcast and cable clients from a workflow standpoint. An HPX500 or HDX900 with an Ultimate/B4 Relay will rock!
 
Dino hit it on the nose. Makes much more sense to see these in rental houses and in the hands of those who already own the proper camera. They are also the same people that pay off their equipment in a few steady jobs so the price, which is actually pretty good when you consider the entire system is still tack sharp and super fast, really isn't a major factor. It makes good business sense.

And, speaking about RED, it's a different ballgame: although the post process entails several different options, in the end, most people still do not want to deal with RED's post workflow. I know this first hand being that a portion of my own work is generated in RED world.

RED just isn't THAT universal. But, most of the Panasonic p2 line cameras are.

Footage coming as soon as possible.
 
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Tomas Riuka said:
right... i was excited until i saw prices.... this is getting riduculous, letus ultimate for 4500$ ? now relay lens for 6000 ??? come on.... balde offers the same for 2x less... and relay lens was planned 4500, now it gets to 6000$... this is just insane. and cannot guarantee compatibility with other adapters. ???
Click to expand...
The B4 Compact was the one that we intended to release all along, we found that we could reduce the price by $1000, so we did (it was intended to be released at $4500). The B4 Pro (longer version, more lens elements, 12 elements vs 9 in Compact) was developed after the Compact after we see that we can improve light loss up to almost the hard limitation of the B4 camera (F/1.4). We decided to target those who already own the P+S Pro35 who wants best brightest, sharpest 35mm DoF adapter solution. Raw cost for the glass element inside was much much higher than I anticipated (German materials). Though we spent around 1/4 million on R&D for these, we factor in very minimally into the price as we think we will eventually get it in a long run. This is for the first time I understand why P+S Pro35 price is so high. I came from this community, I appreciate all the support from this community and I never intend to intimidate it.

The reason we said that it will not guarantee to work with other adapter (actually I almost certain it will not), because we put our prism, condenser, GG into the design (not only the optical focal length, but also the material, coating were taken into account) to guarantee sharpness, and especially no CA.
 
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