Having issues exporting 24pA to DVD Pro from FCP

T

tunejunkE

Active member
For some reason, whenever I export a 24pA timeline to DVD Pro4, it shows up as 29.97 evey time. I experimented with exporting several formats, had the most success with the dv/DVC Pro-NTSC. I noticed that FCP did not have any setting for 23.98 when using this though, weird..... I verified that the file is indeed using 24pA timeline on FCP, but for whatever reason DVDPro adjusts it back to 30p. What am I missing? I checked all the settings on FCP and DVDPro and made sure everything was correct. I was under the impression that you could use 24p on a DVD, only tape you cannot. Is that not correct? What is the point in filming/editing in 24pa if you cannot copy it onto a DVD?

Also had some issues with the proper compression, it is set at default for the h.224 or whatever, that screws it up because it only reads every other 15 frames or something like that, so some of my footage had jump cuts in it because it was not reading the frames properly. When investigating that, I noticed the 29.97 frame rate issue, so I thought i could correct it by exporting it properly. I tried about 5 different combos with no luck.

Anyone know how to fix this?
 
Let's step back and clear a few things up.

24pA is a 'mode' the camera shoots in... it has nothing to do with editing in FCP. So, we need to clear up what a 24pA timeline is.

Ok...

Let us assume you shot footage on the DVX in 24pA mode.

How did you capture it? What settings did you use?

Ok... so you got it into FCP in some form... Let's find out in WHAT form you got it in:

In the browser, click on a captured footage icon and slide over to where it tells you the frame rate: Does it say 23.98 or does it say 29.97?

Now... (yes, all of these things are important for us (and you) to know)

Click on the TIMELINE/SEQUENCE icon you have been editing in. Hit COMMAND-ZERO and tell us what the timecode for the sequence is.

Do they match? What is it?

Ok... answer those few and we'll get to the rest later.

Bottom line though... if you edited in 29.97 it will export as 29.97. If you edited in 23.98 it will export in 23.98 (all else being equal).

CaptM
 
Ok let's see, I shoot at 24pA, i think its easier to reference that vs saying 23.98 every time, that why I said it that way. I imported @ 29.97, removed pulldown, edited on 23.98 timeline, verified this by clicking on sequence then going to file/settings (or something like that, im not at my Mac at the moment) and it say 23.98, and audio is AIFF @ 48Hz. Just estimations but i am 95% sure that stuff is correct. I will check the timeline "command-zero trick when I get home, i hope its set up correctly!

What do you mean when you say "In the browser, click on a captured footage icon and slide over to where it tells you the frame rate: Does it say 23.98 or does it say 29.97?"

I always forget what window is what, do you mean the upper left, where the clips/sequences are listed? I didn't know that info was displayed there....I'll check it out when i get home. I usually import it into the timeline, and it will say something like "the settings do not match the settings of the timeline, would you like the timeline to change to match? or something to that affect> I just say yes. I added an audion track 1st on accident and it was not in the correct format, and i tried the other way and it looks correct, and I have not had any issues, so I assumed that was correct and the default is 29.98. Let's hope I'm right!
 
tunejunkE said:
I shoot at 24pA, i think its easier to reference that vs saying 23.98 every time,
Click to expand...

Might be, but doesn't make sense when we try to help you. Best to try and keep to the correct terms when able. 24pA is both 29.97 AND 23.98. Could mean one to me and the other to you.

tunejunkE said:
What do you mean when you say "In the browser, click on a captured footage icon and slide over to where it tells you the frame rate: Does it say 23.98 or does it say 29.97?"
Click to expand...

Yes, the browser is the window that has all the media stored in it. For me I keep mine lower left, so again, referencing upper left has no meaning. Learn your terms. You'll notice that that window will scroll to the right. There are LOTS of columns of information there. Look for the one that says Frame Rate or something like that. There is a treasure of information hidden in there!!

tunejunkE said:
I usually import it into the timeline, and it will say something like "the settings do not match the settings of the timeline, would you like the timeline to change to match? or something to that affect> I just say yes.
Click to expand...

Not the best workflow. Get to know your system and tools. You'll be better for it.

tunejunkE said:
I added an audion track 1st on accident and it was not in the correct format, and i tried the other way and it looks correct, and I have not had any issues, so I assumed that was correct and the default is 29.98. Let's hope I'm right!
Click to expand...

Again, not sure what you mean by this. But again, if it is 29.97 that will be your problem. You cannot export a 29.97 sequence to 24fps just because you WANT to. It must be 24fps first.

Keep posting... we'll straighten you out.

CaptM
 
matching timeline to framerate

matching timeline to framerate

CaptainMench said:
Let's step back and clear a few things up.


Bottom line though... if you edited in 29.97 it will export as 29.97. If you edited in 23.98 it will export in 23.98 (all else being equal).

CaptM
Click to expand...

Ok, so I thought the timeline would automatically match the framerate of your 1st clip/sequence that you add to the timeline. Do you have to specify that somewhere else? I have some test footage from when I first got the DVX that i shot in 30p, 24P, and 24pA to see the differences. I haven't actually imported any of the "other" footage to eliminate any confusion with capture/edit/timeline settings until I am very confortable with what I am doing. I don't want to get totally confused and screw it up and have to start all over. If I didn't get timeline part right, it's no big deal, I can re-edit those sequences. I only edited like 3-5 sequences (15 min worth) so i could export to DVD and see where I am at, what changes I need to make, etc. So if you can steer me in the right direction, that could end up saving me lots of time! Thanks in advance for you help CaptM!
 
keep 'em coming!

keep 'em coming!

CaptainMench said:
Yes, the browser is the window that has all the media stored in it. For me I keep mine lower left, so again, referencing upper left has no meaning. Learn your terms. You'll notice that that window will scroll to the right. There are LOTS of columns of information there. Look for the one that says Frame Rate or something like that. There is a treasure of information hidden in there!!



Not the best workflow. Get to know your system and tools. You'll be better for it.



Again, not sure what you mean by this. But again, if it is 29.97 that will be your problem. You cannot export a 29.97 sequence to 24fps just because you WANT to. It must be 24fps first.

Keep posting... we'll straighten you out.

CaptM
Click to expand...

Hey thanks CaptM, I really appreciate your help. I took a class using FCP and have done lots of projects with it (all using traditional 30fps), but that was last Jan-May, so i am rusty as hell with it, just trying to use my instincts! I have the Apple FCP 6 book, along with the Apple DVD Pro4 book, to use as references, but they leave some obvious things out. It sounds like I probably screwed up the timeline but I know i checked the sequence at least and that was 23.98. Since that sequence is actually put together in the timeline, shouldn't it match? So when I get home, if it does not match, but the captured clips are correct (23.98) how do I make the timeline 23.98? I tried to "check it out" real quick after work last night and ended up working on it for 3-4 hours doing tests exports, encoding, burning test DVD, etc so I want to get on track tonight if possible!
 
Well, when you get back to the mac answer what the framerate is of the captured clips in the browser window.

CaptM
 
Framerate correct

Framerate correct

CaptainMench said:
Well, when you get back to the mac answer what the framerate is of the captured clips in the browser window.

CaptM
Click to expand...

Ok I checked it out, looks ok. I see what you mean about the browser showing the setting, all clips and sequences are 23.98 fps @ 720x480. I also confirmed that in a quicktime file I exported (forgot to mention that before) so everything looks correct as far as the FCP files go. I googled around and saw lots of others had the same issue, so I feel slightly less of a jacka$$. I also found this in the DVD Pro manual, which explains my issues:

"If you import 24 fps MPEG-2 assets,​
​
​
they are handled correctly and remain 24 fps when
you build the project.​

Note:​
​
​
24 fps assets show as their display rate setting when viewed in the Track Editor.
This makes them appear as if they were at the NTSC or PAL frame rate. You can
confirm they are actually 24 fps by selecting them in the Assets tab and verifying the
frame rate in the Asset Inspector.​

•​
​
​
If you import 24 fps QuickTime assets, they are encoded as either 29.97 fps or 25 fps
MPEG-2 files, based on your project’s video standard, and are no longer 24 fps when​

you build the project."
 
It also states:
"To create a 24 fps MPEG-2 asset, you need to use Compressor (included with​
DVD Studio Pro) or a third-party encoder that supports encoding 24 fps MPEG-2 assets."
I had a feeling this is what was needed, but I couldn't figure out how to use Compressor to change the file to the correct compression. Now that I know using Compressor is required for using this 23.98 framerate with DVDpro, I am trying to go thru the user manual to figure it out.
 
WOW!!!

You are the DUDE! I congratulate you for hunting this down yourself. I wouldn't have EVER given you that information... heck, I didn't even know it myself.

Let us know how it works out for you.

CaptM
 
Yeah, I'm still a little skeptical about this. The user manual basically states if you encode it as MPEG-2 using Compressor, it will remain in that format. What is no clear to me is, how do I verify that 100%? Do I just have to trust it? I think the manual said or I read somewhere else you can click on the file and check the inspector to verify what the frame rate/file format is, but it does not specifically say anywhere that it will say 23.98, only that DVD will accept the 24P format, and that when using Compressor the format will stay the same. I will have to wait and see if that works out.

Another thing that is not very clear is, does the DVDPro encoder automatically compress to MPEG-2? Even if the file has already been compressed in some other way? I still have not seen anywhere that you can "manually" disable the encoder so you don't add double compression to your files! They are very ambiguous with these manuals aren't they?

Thanks again for the wealth of knowledge that you and others share with everyone else. It definitely saves time and money!
 
Ah...

Ok. Let me rest fears.

Using compressor's mpeg presets for best quality and 24fps... use the 90 minute version. Well, I like the 90 minute preset. Not sure why. 120 is too much if you can avoid it and 60 for me just doesn't look good. Can't tell you why, I don't have the vocabulary for that. But give it a shot.

DO make sure in compressor you choose the ac3 option for the audio. You do not want to be using raw aiff files on a dvd.

Second... DVDSP will NOT re-encode the files brought in from compressor. You'll notice that when you import the assets they will be RED for a few seconds. DVDSP is just looking at them... as soon as it sees that they are files it can work with they will turn to GREEN. If they weren't mpeg2s DVDSP would keep them red until IT compressed them.

Now... even though your file is 23.98 on the DVD, chances are the DVD PLAYER hooked up to your TV will add the pulldown cadence back on the output because the TV still wants 30 fps.

CaptM
 
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