SGblade Beta Tester Reviews & Feedback’

yea, my biggest problem with the SGpro was the flimsy Power pack.... Its a blessing and a curse, you can buy a few of them, and load em up with batteries for a quick batt change.... that was one thing i knew would cause someone somewhere a headache...

I'll keep an eye out on the balde.
 
Dillon Novak said:
Damn that's a lot of shoot outs, im glad that so many people are doing it. It's going to be so helpful for adapter investors to buy the best bang for their buck. BTW Thanks you three, i'm excited!
Click to expand...

I think it'd be better for all of us to collaborate. Phil is busy being artistic and amazing! But hey... if he wants to do one go for it!

philip bloom said:
sounds like Joe's one is going to make the rest of the shootouts a bit redundant unless I can find an angle...How about I drink two bottles of tequila and see which one produces the best images and is easiest to set up whilst being paralytic?
Click to expand...

Yeah... my test is going to be a mix of science and of beauty. It'll include calulations, waveform monitors, charts, and scene settings. It'll also touch workflow and stuff like that. Timur's well his is aimed at things he finds interesting... which is workflow and nitpicky details.

philip bloom said:
Wonder what sort of Bokeh you get if you attach them all together??!
Click to expand...

Not a bad idea! I think the planets will align and send a giant beam of light heading straight towards the center of the earth. All the volcanoes will explode.

TimurCivan said:
im gonna test it for my own purposes. and im looking for small nitpicky things that mot people dont even notice.....

Things like, can i take it apart real fast and put it back together in dim light... you know , realworld stuff... i dont care about res charts, resolution is only part of the whole dynamic of an image, and the usefulness of an adapter system....

Another example, can you get to every surface? on a recent music Video, a piece of dust got on the Flip module of a LEX. and it was on the internal part of the prism. I had to miracle it out of there by bascially burping the flip unit like a baby till the dust spec settled somewhere that wasnt visisble...

things liek that...
Click to expand...

This is something completely different than what I'd be testing. So... I think it'd be valuable information. Especially considering that Timur does completely different work than I do! I'm came for it TC!
 
I said a long time ago that I wanted a G force rating for the adapter, and I am really only partially kidding... :)
 
philip bloom said:
Wonder what sort of Bokeh you get if you attach them all together??!
Click to expand...

probably similar to the bokeh you'd see after drinking two bottles of tequila, except without that big rabbit jumping around half naked crushing cars with its big feet... nope? guess thats just me who sees him when Im pissed :laugh:

Even though this is on order and will see for myself in Feb, look forward to seeing what you come up with Timur
 
Joseph, I hope you are only half kiddin' too, as in serious but not willing to pay for an adapter to possibly get damaged out of your own pocket. (?) :D

Jay, giant evil bunnies rule
 
OK Joseph, As I recall you asked for suggestions about testing the adapters, so here goes my 2 cents. - You may be sorry you asked ( you did didn't you?)


Most of this pertains to shooting charts. I know alot of people here ridicule shooting charts, but they can tell you one hell of a lot and lay a lot of BS to rest. Once you do the charts - then by all means shoot something more interesting, but its hard to make serious comparisons without them. So here goes:

First - make sure your cameras are actually the same speed & color. I’ve seen HVX’s that were inexplicably 1/3 or more different with the same settings. You may have to make some minor changes to their set-ups or always compensate for their exposure differences.

A -To compare the speed of adapters is tricky

1 - Compare adapters with 35mm lenses set at f1.4 and also at 2.8. Since adapters tend to not be linear you may find big differences here. The faster adapters may not be that different at f1.4 but show a marked advantage @ 2.8 where you need to be for a zoom lens.

2 - Check how much your video cameras may lose exposure as you zoom in and factor that into your conclusions.

3. Check whether you are comparing adapters at full frame SLR or academy. Some may perform better at one or the other. This is a big variable.

2. Make Sure you turn OFF KNEE and any CINE GAMMAS. Compression will muck up the linearity of exposure differences in the brighter areas.

3 The best method for comparing speed is to have:
- a waveform monitor
- a light meter and
- a dimmer on your lights.

4. Keep the video camera f-stop wide open to eliminate variables. (The video cameras f- stops are usually too “sloppy” to be accurate)

5. Procedure
-Always bring the chart or grey patch to the same place on the waveform by using the dimmers on your lights.
- Measure the foot candles it took to get to that place on the waveform.
(If the lightmeter doesn’t have foot candles use EV or pick some metric to measure the light output)
- The Difference between the light meter readings is the speed difference between the adapters.

This eliminates all variables and will be accurate

C. To compare sharpness use a chart that has line pairs in the corners and at the center like an ISO Rez chart that you can download below and blow it up to 4’ at Kinko’s

http://www.leonardlevy.net/ISO_12233-reschart.pdf

DON’T FOCUS the video camera on the adapters screen surface and DON’T use AUTO FOCUS. Both are too sloppy and may tend to focus on the center too much.

DO go back and forth between focusing on the chart with the 35mm lens and the video lens on the adapter screen while looking at your monitor.

-Set focus to the best average between the center and corners. If you just go for the center it can be inaccurate cause your corners might suck while another adapter might be softer in the center but completely even across the field.

You can try this also at different f stops on the video camera to see where it gets better.

4. An easy comparison of DOF is to set the cameras at a close distance like 5’ then throw the 35mm lens to infinity. You will see a big difference in how far out of focus the chart goes.

D. The chart also seems to be a decent way to see some aberrations though I found that I really noticed them much more when I made still frames and looked at those full size on my screen. I saw chromatic aberration that completely missed me on the 17” Panasonic.

E. A valuable nonchart test is to create a scene that has different kinds of overexposed imagery - A light bulb, a lamp with a shade, a window, or (maybe a very overexposed picture if you don’t have a window. )etc. You could also have a person in this shot to also look at how pleasant the face rendition is.

Look at how the adapter handles the overexposure:
- Is it pleasant or filmlike with a gentle fall off?
- Is it a harsh blob ?
- Is there flare and is it pleasant or too much?
(Could this hurt a shot with a large light source or a bright sky?)
- Is there chromatic aberration around sharp focused edges of the overexposure area?
- Does the adapter reveal some of the pattern of the screen in the overexposed part of the image and take on an artificial or plastic look. (This can be really ugly.)
- Does the overexposed area vibrate from the movement of the screen.
- Finally, how does the overall image feel.

Often check your focus ( both video camera and 35mm) before shooting - bring in the chart and make sure focus hasn’t drifted.

Good luck and get lots of help, its very time consuming.

Lenny Levy
 
Man! I vote for every vendor sending Lenny an adapter and letting him do the 'be all, end all' of adapter tests!!! :-) From what I've seen over the years, there's so much variability among tests that it really makes it hard to be subjective about the existing published results...

In the end however, IMHO, 35mm adapter technology has progressed to the point where it becomes a matter of personal taste, reliability/ease of use and flexibility...

Personally, I want the following in a 35mm adapter:

1) Maximum E2E sharpness
2) Minimum of light loss
3) Reliability
4) Many lens mounting options
5) Interchangeable screens for a variety of 'looks'
6) Ability to use any available apertures/shutter speeds
7) Flipped image

Even with the spectre of paradigm-shifting technology on the horizon (Scarlet, etc.), I think that 35mm adapters still have a number of years of useful life helping to produce beautiful, film-like imagery for us indie filmmakers...
 
Last edited:
Leo Versola said:
Man! I vote for every vendor sending Lenny an adapter and letting him do the 'be all, end all' of adapter tests!!! :-) From what I've seen over the years, there's so much variability among tests that it really makes it hard to be subjective about the existing published results...

In the end however, IMHO, 35mm adapter technology has progressed to the point where it becomes a matter of personal taste, reliability/ease of use and flexibility...

Personally, I want the following in a 35mm adapter:

1) Maximum E2E sharpness
2) Minimum of light loss
3) Reliability
4) Many lens mounting options
5) Interchangeable screens for a variety of 'looks'
6) Ability to use any available apertures/shutter speeds
7) Flipped image

Even with the spectre of paradigm-shifting technology on the horizon (Scarlet, etc.), I think that 35mm adapters still have a number of years of useful life helping to produce beautiful, film-like imagery for us indie filmmakers...
Click to expand...

I'll take Reliability as #1 priority... there is a reason the P&S is 15K.... it will withstand a war.
 
TimurCivan said:
I'll take Reliability as #1 priority... there is a reason the P&S is 15K.... it will withstand a war.
Click to expand...

I should have mentioned that the items weren't listed in any particular priority although Reliability is high, if not the highest on my own list if I were to rank them...
 
Thanks for all the great info guys. I'm designing the test to be a mix of beauty shots as well as charts/test shots. In the end it really is a matter of reliability and taste. Which is why instead of saying which one is the best overall... I'm going to try to show you the strengths of each and let you pick for your workflow. I'm really interested to see Blade vs. Ultimate as well as some other matchups too.
 
Im sure we could bodge up some kind of G force measuring machine....

All we need is a crazy spinning rig and some accelerometers...
 
Now we're talking.... truly scientific !

Tim, Thanks for doing relaibility tests as I don't think anyone else would have thought to really knock these things around . Its a very smart thing to do.

The P+S is reliable, but I've always hated it for its bulk and weight, let alone its price tag. Of course I've never tried it now that it can use Nikon's , maybe that slims the profile.

Lenny Levy
 
Lenilenapi said:
OK Joseph, As I recall you asked for suggestions about testing the adapters, so here goes my 2 cents. - You may be sorry you asked ( you did didn't you?)


Most of this pertains to shooting charts. I know alot of people here ridicule shooting charts, but they can tell you one hell of a lot and lay a lot of BS to rest. Once you do the charts - then by all means shoot something more interesting, but its hard to make serious comparisons without them. So here goes:

........

Often check your focus ( both video camera and 35mm) before shooting - bring in the chart and make sure focus hasn’t drifted.

Good luck and get lots of help, its very time consuming.

Lenny Levy
Click to expand...

Agree with everything Lenny says. I'd add that you may want to test different stops. I usually test at 1.4, 2.0, 2.8, 4.0 5.6 But if haven't the time, test stops that are practical say, 2.0 and 4.0. At least this falls in the range of a lenses optimum optics. I avoid shooting at 1.4 as much as possible as I find still lenses too soft and focus too hard to maintain.

You may want to try the camera at a 2.8 rather than wide open for similar optimum optics reasons. To dial it in, start wide open and use the marker function to get the same numerical exposure read out.

That being said, I'm a big fan of using one camera. It's more work but does eliminate the variables of two cameras. I find HVX's can vary.

Regarding dimmers, if you want consistent color temperature try scrims instead. When I used to test film stocks for lattitude (boy that seems like a long time ago), we'd leave the f stop the same and change the exposure by adding/removing scrims - eliminating DOF and F stop variables.

Concerning charts, you can't beat it for pure objectivity. However being a 2 dimensional surface, I suggest you conduct tests with a face in the foreground and some background (ie. practicals, windows, etc, anything that accentuates the bokeh effect). It's nice to see how the focus falls off. Zeiss are sharper than Cookes, but many people prefer Cookes because of the gentle fall off.

Last bit, get at least two people to help out. One to move lights, one on camera and one to AC and take copious notes and prep your slates.

Than I'd do some real world testing. Stick it the freezer and see how long it runs. Seriously. Beats having to find out it doesn't run on a mountain top. Then stick it in an oven at 110 degrees. See if it can handle desert heat for an hour. Turn the steam up in your shower and see how long it runs in the bathroom. These requests are not out of line for "pro" gear. Extreme weather usually separates pro-sumer from pro. My last couple of shoots have been in somewhat extreme conditions 5 degrees farenheit and then 100 degrees all within in a week. My gear held up.

Then test it hand held in a car on a bump country road. Test it on fast tilts from straight up to the sky and down to the ground. Whip pans. I've had adaptors lose their RPMS from fast camera moves or high G's. Anything you can think of that test the mechanics. Do a hundred lens changes and see if the mount still holds up. Turn it on and off a hundred times.

As I've mentioned before, the issue I've had with low cost (sub PS technik) adaptors has always been reliability. I stepped out of the adaptor game completely for this reason. One too many embarrassing moments when the meter is ticking. The risk was too great.

If Wayne has "war ready" product, I may just jump back in.

Good luck.
 
Last edited:
I just wanna see some more shots..
there are too few to make a judgement of any kind at the moment making the real beta testers those that part with their hard earned.
 
I will be testing the Blade aswell in the next few weeks hopefully. Ive got a short film coming up and if I can get the Blade in time, id like to shoot it with a bare Z7 and a Z7 with the blade side by side to show a before and after. I plan to export it as both shots side by side for the whole film...
 
I think it all comes down to the look... of the adapter not the footage... who cares if you can ski so long as you look dam good in the bunny slopes... HAHAHA

1. Reliability
2. Image
3. Speed
4. Mounts

But I am no DP... maybe I should just put this on my sig and save some time. :D

5. Will it last long enough to get that shot I need when I send it to the surface of Mercury?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top