Getting 4:4:4 out of the Red One

Rent a Red package with good lenses and work with it yourself. There is so much bullshit information about Red its almost laughable. The way to get real information is to forget about what someone else says. Just use it and see for yourself. Make up your own mind. If you know what your doing you'll find out the truth right away.
 
craigbowman said:
Rent a Red package with good lenses and work with it yourself. There is so much bullshi* information about Red its almost laughable. The way to get real information is to forget about what someone else says. Just use it and see for yourself. Make up your own mind. If you know what your doing you'll find out the truth right away.
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I agree with craig, as usefull as these forums are they will never truly give you the answers you need. At a certain point these forums get into a feedback loop and you have endless+pointless disscussions.

Everytime I have to shoot with something I do tests and more tests. Thats the only way to be sure.

I have shot with the hvx200, HPX3000, Viper, F-23 and the Genesis. I also have run them throught the entire pipeline of post so I have very clear opinions on what I prefer which system at what budget.

But I have never shot with the RED so my knowledge is purely theory and opinion is speculation+conjecture.

I make a point of this Dan because I know you are young and eager to learn, which is great. But take what you learn from these forums with a doubting mind until you experience it for yourself.

Keep asking questions but remmember, when you become the seasoned veteran you set out to be, pass on the information.:beer:

"Experience is something you get right after when you could have used it the most."

Cheers,
 
craigbowman said:
Rent a Red package with good lenses and work with it yourself. There is so much bullshi* information about Red its almost laughable. The way to get real information is to forget about what someone else says. Just use it and see for yourself. Make up your own mind. If you know what your doing you'll find out the truth right away.
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I was about to say the same thing. Too many people go by "what they hear" and get in their own way sometimes. The only time I had soft image issues was with a lens that wasn't back focused correctly but thats an easy fix. I set back focus with our primes but the wide angle zoom is a little off. I have to change the back focus when I change to the 17-35mm. The images are really damn sharp and yes, sometimes I think its too sharp and have been looking into some soft filtering. The latest music video I'm working on has some super sharp close ups and when brought down to 1080 the skin actually sparkles because the pores are crispy. I see bad makeup now too, I can see where the make up ends in the nostrils even and have to make sure the makeup artist knows they can't fake it this time.



The noise in the image thing is something people also stumble on. After all the complaining about HVX noise not one client complained for us. The RED's noise is minimal when you know how to use the camera or any camera as someone mentioned. With the RED, its affordable so people can own one and learn it inside and out and after you get bored a new build comes out for you to learn again.
 
kenn michael said:
Exactly Matthew.

I'm an owner too, and I was only making the point that IF you want it devastatingly sharp, you can do so by adding sharpening. I think they have the image in a great sweet spot that gives you smooth out of the box, but if someone who is used to the baked in sharpening that most video cameras offer wants the over-sharpened look you can do it.

Red is resolving plenty of detail. It holds up on the biggest screens and looks gorgeous. AND you don't need s.two or codex boxes and crazy video villages to capture the data.
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This 'soft' image issue is not unknown to the still digital world... the remedy is to use unsharp mask filter...

That is even more interesting is if one has seen 4x5 or 8x10 contact prints from that sized negative, often someone will note the 'softness'...

What it seems to really be is 'constast', and how the human preceives a contrastier image as 'sharper' than an actually sharper, but flatter image...
 
I don't think it does. The tests that I remember seeing somewhere had the viper and the RED at the same. Only the Genesis had more DR (I think the D21 was about the same as the RED also.)

Matthew
 
Macville said:
I don't think it does. The tests that I remember seeing somewhere had the viper and the RED at the same. Only the Genesis had more DR (I think the D21 was about the same as the RED also.)

Matthew
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what kind of crazy fantasy are you living mate?
 
the viper and the red are not comparable!!! the world would not be the same if they were, think about it, if the red could do what the viper does, no one would use the viper and just purchase a red, you cannot purchase a viper, you can only rent a viper for about 2,500 a day
there are a lot of differenences behond the obvious, now dont get me wrong I have shot red and it takes a prety picture but I also know what the viper and the genesis can do, are there are areas where the red "compromisses" and the other cams dont, plus there is a whole different look to each cam
 
Sorry I didn't respond, I have been traveling the past few days.

I was wrong about the viper vs the RED. I can't find the exact thing I read, but it sounds like the viper has 1-2 stops more DR than the RED and the D20 (not sure about the 21) seemed to have the same DR as the RED. Of course, if you know how to expose each camera correctly, you will absolutely beautiful image. I prefer the creamier image out of the RED (one reason I own one) over the Genesis (didn't like the look of superman, although get smart looked pretty good, just a little too sharp). The viper has a pretty nice image. I just don't think it's worth the extra money over the RED-especially when I could shoot for the same price as the viper.

Matthew
 
Macville said:
I prefer the creamier image out of the RED (one reason I own one) over the Genesis (didn't like the look of superman, although get smart looked pretty good, just a little too sharp).
Matthew
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Dont give up on anything until you've tried it. I know you stated you have an investment on the red but you never know when oppurtunity might provide you with a chance to work with a very high end system like the genesis.

I would again reccomend if you can get your hands on it and put it through the pileline, you truly will develop a valid platform to make comparisons.

Everything beyond that is pure speculation. I am personally looking forward to playing with the RED very soon....just need to make up a reason to use it :)
 
I was wrong about the viper vs the RED. I can't find the exact thing I read, but it sounds like the viper has 1-2 stops more DR than the RED and the D20 (not sure about the 21) seemed to have the same DR as the RED
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no, and don't try again, don't talk about dynamic range again, you don't get it, leave it alone!!.
 
amrrahmy said:
no, and don't try again, don't talk about dynamic range again, you don't get it, leave it alone!!.
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If you get it, then why don't you post some tests showing the DR of each camera? I don't see you really backing up anything you say (which isn't much.)

I know with the RED I can get about 10 stops under daylight and the noise is very acceptable as far as I am concerned. Yes, there are some image compromises with the RED, but considering the price and the final image I can get, I think they are worth it. Plus, with EPIC the image is only going to get better and less compressed.

I still don't understand why someone would pay as much or more to shoot digital over film. Unless they just like the onset workflow of digital--which I can understand.

Matthew
 
acceptable......in that case anyone can say that a mobile camera makes x stops of acceptable image to their eyes, that's interesting......but not in a comparison, when you compare two or more cameras to it you need equal grounds, and signal to noise ratio, and color shift are two very important points,

next time you will say that an h1 has as much dr as a viper if noise was not a concern.
 
You still didn't answer the question.

When YOU shot Red, how many stops did you measure? How did you process the RAW data? What was your viewing resolution, 4K, 2K, 1080? Who did the grading and on what system? What kind of screen? Filmout? Compared side by side with the noise characteristics of 35mm? Viper? Genesis? What was YOUR experience? Where do YOU put the Viper in terms of DR?

When you're comparing color resolution and stating that Red doesn't output accurate color, same thing. What was the process? Where's the side by side comparison data?
 
my experience, as if someone else made tests it would produce different results?, what exactly would you accept or acknowledge?, cml made results of test made by red themselves, and they did not accept the results, what would you or they accept after that?.

your not trying to understand, you just want to justify to yourself something that is not true, don't declare that a fact, and keep your delusions to yourself.
 
Not delusional at all.

Have not read the CML tests, but I have done my own tests. I have seen filmouts of my own material. I consult the workflow and pipeline to clients regularly.
 
so who's comparison would you actually agree to, who should make a test that you will accept the results of, no matter what the results are?.
 
I have no interest in 'agreeing' in any comparison since I've already done my own. My comparisons are applicable to my work and my pipeline.

I was asking you about your experience because I was curious as to how you set your tests up. It seems that you've taken your tests results from CML, which is fine. I was assuming that you had experiential knowledge of the camera system and workflows.

This is not a 'who's right and who's wrong' situation, there are many experiences to be had and have been had. I was trying to see where yours fit in.

That's all.
 
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