countryman b3 vs b6
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puredrifting
Major Contributor
Simple, you are paying for size and convenience with the B6, I have had one for years. It's not the best sounding lav available, but it sounds decent and is so easy to hide. Love my B6.
B3 sounds good too, but not as good as the Sanken COS-11 or the DPAs.
Dan
B3 sounds good too, but not as good as the Sanken COS-11 or the DPAs.
Dan
Rippie
Veteran
I own a couple b6's.
I use my sanken cos11's most of the time and prefer the sound,
but when no matter what I try I cant get rid of clothing noise UNDER the clothes..
im thankful to pop a b6 right out a button hole and hide it behind the button out in the "air"
if the choice is limited between a b3 and a b6, go for the b6.
If you're doing mostly docs, i'd suggest cos11's personally. Better outdoors (the b6 is useless without a windscreen outside and by the time you put the supplied screen on it..its as big as any other mic), the cos11 has a more heavy duty cable as well.
I use my sanken cos11's most of the time and prefer the sound,
but when no matter what I try I cant get rid of clothing noise UNDER the clothes..
im thankful to pop a b6 right out a button hole and hide it behind the button out in the "air"
if the choice is limited between a b3 and a b6, go for the b6.
If you're doing mostly docs, i'd suggest cos11's personally. Better outdoors (the b6 is useless without a windscreen outside and by the time you put the supplied screen on it..its as big as any other mic), the cos11 has a more heavy duty cable as well.
is the cord any better on the b3 then the b6 or is it the same cord? I'm on a budget as i need something better then the mic that came with my sennheiser system, when i need really good audio, i hire a sound guy. I much rather spend $200 then $400 for my personal kit. I'm trying to pick something somewhat decent up as a end of the year tax write off.
I'm seeing prices for the COS-11 and DPAs around 300 to $400 at BH while the b3 is around $200 so its a decent price jump. Is it worth it?
I'm seeing prices for the COS-11 and DPAs around 300 to $400 at BH while the b3 is around $200 so its a decent price jump. Is it worth it?
Rippie
Veteran
its mostly preference at that point.
My preference would be when you say "is it worth it?" ..yes.
If you must stay around $200 i'd "personally" go for a tram.
I own about 6 emw's that i NEVER use which are the same design as a tram, but to me
a noiser cable and the tram has way better mounting. (the vampire for a tram is very very good)
My preference would be when you say "is it worth it?" ..yes.
If you must stay around $200 i'd "personally" go for a tram.
I own about 6 emw's that i NEVER use which are the same design as a tram, but to me
a noiser cable and the tram has way better mounting. (the vampire for a tram is very very good)
tram is one of the worse microphones for sound change over short time period during sweat leakage .
also it the past where are the worst for corpus cracks and cable disconnection near the capsule
emw much better mic for long time period .
about accessories , accept the cage you have all accessories from countryman
also if you insist you can modify the tram ones to use with emw - i did it in the past .
cable noise - they are quit same , making a loop before the mic mount would help every microphone cable to be less noisy
also it the past where are the worst for corpus cracks and cable disconnection near the capsule
emw much better mic for long time period .
about accessories , accept the cage you have all accessories from countryman
also if you insist you can modify the tram ones to use with emw - i did it in the past .
cable noise - they are quit same , making a loop before the mic mount would help every microphone cable to be less noisy
Rippie
Veteran
I wouldnt say "great" things about a tram.
But they are pretty inexpensive and hide pretty easy.
Personally I wouldnt be so quick to blow them off as oleg seems to be implying.
I do agree with oleg about the capsule separating over time, but honestly
I find the mic way better overall over the numerous emw's i own.
To each his own.
But they are pretty inexpensive and hide pretty easy.
Personally I wouldnt be so quick to blow them off as oleg seems to be implying.
I do agree with oleg about the capsule separating over time, but honestly
I find the mic way better overall over the numerous emw's i own.
To each his own.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Trams are a one shot deal, I did have an actor accidentally rip the mic head off of the cable a few years ago. I took it to LSC and their technician told me that once the head is ripped off of a Tram or Sonotrim, it can only be repaired once. If it is ever ripped off again, throw it into the trash. In twelve years of usage, neither of my Trams have had the capsule separate (the two halves come undone) but YMMV.
One other factor to consider about the Trams. I own two of the Tram TR50Bs. Out of all of the lavs tested in my article,http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/lavs_brockett.html the Tram intercut with two different shotguns better than almost any other lav on the market.
I didn't test the EMW as the schmucks at Countryman would not participate, I only included the B6 because I own one. I wanted to include the EMW and the B3 but this was not possible.
there is no great things about tram ,
this one was better solution then Sony which rule the 80s in the early nineties , since then word industry produced much better products which brings the tram to the bottom of my desire to use it ( and i have i think much better collection mics then anyone on this board
)
if it cheap it doesn't really matter for long run , enw lives much longer without change their sound characteristics in sweaty place like Israel while trams start sound shitty after very short time ..
this one was better solution then Sony which rule the 80s in the early nineties , since then word industry produced much better products which brings the tram to the bottom of my desire to use it ( and i have i think much better collection mics then anyone on this board
)if it cheap it doesn't really matter for long run , enw lives much longer without change their sound characteristics in sweaty place like Israel while trams start sound shitty after very short time ..
Rippie
Veteran
Sankens are a "1 shot deal" as well. No repairs can be done at the head.
I dont see that stopping people from using them.
I dont use trams on a daily basis.
The original poster stated they have a budge in mind.
I think for his budget a tram is a good solution along with a couple other suggestions.
But oleg (i bet ya i have ya beat on that mic collection
) ,
I still stand by my OWN PERSONAL opinion that im not a fan of the EMW..and i own 6
that rarely come out.
Glad you like them thats whats great about this world, plenty of choices.
I'll stick to my sankens and the occasional b6 on my end.
I dont see that stopping people from using them.
I dont use trams on a daily basis.
The original poster stated they have a budge in mind.
I think for his budget a tram is a good solution along with a couple other suggestions.
But oleg (i bet ya i have ya beat on that mic collection
) , I still stand by my OWN PERSONAL opinion that im not a fan of the EMW..and i own 6
that rarely come out.
Glad you like them thats whats great about this world, plenty of choices.
I'll stick to my sankens and the occasional b6 on my end.
I own several B6's, several COS-11's and an EMW or two, and I think they're all fine lavs and each has its own "special purpose" (The Jerk has been on HBO a lot lately...).
Pure, please don't call my good friends at Countryman schmucks...they are actually one of the easiest and best microphone companies to deal with, and have always been amazingly responsive to any request I've ever given them, and have always exceeded my expectations. I respect the work you've done with your review articles and do completely understand all of the work that goes into securing the products to include in the reviews, but to disparage a company because they choose not to participate in your review is harsh. Many factors go into any company's decisions on providing evaluation products. It may be as simple as they've exhausted their evaluation allocation for the year.
Phil
Pure, please don't call my good friends at Countryman schmucks...they are actually one of the easiest and best microphone companies to deal with, and have always been amazingly responsive to any request I've ever given them, and have always exceeded my expectations. I respect the work you've done with your review articles and do completely understand all of the work that goes into securing the products to include in the reviews, but to disparage a company because they choose not to participate in your review is harsh. Many factors go into any company's decisions on providing evaluation products. It may be as simple as they've exhausted their evaluation allocation for the year.
Phil
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I own several B6's, several COS-11's and an EMW or two, and I think they're all fine lavs and each has its own "special purpose" (The Jerk has been on HBO a lot lately...).
Pure, please don't call my good friends at Countryman schmucks...they are actually one of the easiest and best microphone companies to deal with, and have always been amazingly responsive to any request I've ever given them, and have always exceeded my expectations. I respect the work you've done with your review articles and do completely understand all of the work that goes into securing the products to include in the reviews, but to disparage a company because they choose not to participate in your review is harsh. Many factors go into any company's decisions on providing evaluation products. It may be as simple as they've exhausted their evaluation allocation for the year.
Phil
Hi Phil:
No offense to you intended.
It really had nothing to do with their non-participation in the review, that would have been fine, I have had other companies decline and I understand, especially for website reviews versus print. Perhaps I should elaborate. Five very professional e-mails sent to the appropriate press contact with no response. Ten phone calls with messages left on both voice mail and with a certain couple of people's assistants, no response. Finally on eleventh call, spoke the real person who could have approved or turned down, she requested that I send her my credentials and a proposal of what the article would be. Sent her everything requested via registered mail so I know that she received it. She told me that she would let me know within three days since I was on a deadline. Of course, three days pass with no response. I call again, she refused to speak with me, has assistant tells me she is in a meeting (while I can hear her in the BG, telling her assistant to tell me that). Even after repeated inquiries and calls, she would not decline, just talked to me once, then deigned to ignore me. What a professional.
By now, if it would have been any other company, I would have given up, but the fact that she and two other people there would not even have the common courtesy to turn me down really pissed me off. If they would have just said, "no, we don't want to participate", fine, I would have been okay with that. But the fact that she basically did not treat me with any respect as a writer and user of their products put me over the edge. I then tried to inquire with other, higher level people at the company and was met with the same non-response.
I will never do business with Countryman again and I will tell of my experiences with them to anyone who will listen.I am a small business owner and I was in sales and sales management for decades and I know a lot about customer service. This is the living manifestation of the 7/23 rule. Take care of a customer and on average, they will seven other people about it. Abuse or don't take care of a customer and on average, they will tell twenty three other people about it. Hopefully I can re-define this maxim and raise that number higher.
I am hoping that their owner or senior level manager someday happens to be attending a tradeshow that I am at, I would love to let them know how their company treats at least some of its users and interested journalists. In my book, you treat people unprofessionally, you will get treated unprofessionally. It really had very little to do with the article or tests, it had more to do with their staff not doing their jobs, flaking and treating me with no common courtesy or respect. In 2008/09, this does not fly. Turn down anyone you want, but at least have the common courtesy to decline, not just ignore.
Love their products, I cannot deny it, they make great mics but their PR and publicity skills I would rate about of level with a typical Soviet-era Aeroflot office. They should be called out on it.
Dan
Dan,
My experience with them is the complete opposite, but that's what makes the world go round, right? I think it's important though to let people know that your problems with them were PR-related, not sales and product related, as you did in your last line.
(BTW, I have no ties to Countryman other than being a very satisfied customer.)
Phil
My experience with them is the complete opposite, but that's what makes the world go round, right? I think it's important though to let people know that your problems with them were PR-related, not sales and product related, as you did in your last line.
(BTW, I have no ties to Countryman other than being a very satisfied customer.)
Phil
puredrifting
Major Contributor
That's exactly why I type out that long post, to set the record straight.
I think that is part of what really disappointed me, I went into prepping for the article really looking forward to using and reviewing the B3 and EMW because I don't think they have been very publicized and I know that they are excellent mics. I have used the B6 for years in my own kit and love it. Except from those in the know (sound pros), most newer users (who most of my reviews are aimed at) have not heard of Countryman.
It is always disappointing when a company makes such great products but can still fall apart at the interface with the public (at least in my case, obviously not in yours).
Best,
Dan
Dan,
Your mic reviews have far more impact in the indy world than people think. Seems a shame that countryman, who have the reputation as the "underdog," would shun you, the underdog journalist. Your reviews are very even handed and the professionalism of a paper published review, but also a mix of "user review", which i inherantly trust more than advertising-paid reviewers.
I had 4 countryman on a purchase list for an upcoming project, but decided to switch that to sanken after reading your account. So, there's a little bit of vindication for ya.
Cheers, and keep up the reviews!
Your mic reviews have far more impact in the indy world than people think. Seems a shame that countryman, who have the reputation as the "underdog," would shun you, the underdog journalist. Your reviews are very even handed and the professionalism of a paper published review, but also a mix of "user review", which i inherantly trust more than advertising-paid reviewers.
I had 4 countryman on a purchase list for an upcoming project, but decided to switch that to sanken after reading your account. So, there's a little bit of vindication for ya.
Cheers, and keep up the reviews!
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Thanks for your take on my articles Floop, I am glad that you find them helpful.
I do think that you will like the Sankens, they are very good mics, really almost the standard lav on Hollywood features and television these days. It's not really my aim to try to discourage people from purchasing Countryman products. As I said, their products are great, it was just trying to deal with their staff that was so incredibly frustrating.
I think that everyone needs to evaluate equipment for their own needs and taste, but it can be helpful to know how companies interface with the outside world, whether it is exempelary (as in our own Jan Crittenden, our buddies at Spec Comm, my experiences with almost all of the major sound manufacturers, which has been excellent, particularly the nice folks at Sennheiser and Audio Technica or any other great vendors) or it is not so great, as was my experience in this case.
Whenever I buy any professional gear, to me, it is always a two part decision.
1. Is the gear good and does it suit my needs?
2. Is the company that manufactures it good to deal with as is the dealer I am buying it from?
When I was in retail electronics, at the time, Sony made the best video gear. I have owned numerous Sony cameras and Beta SP and DBeta decks. But Sony Broadcast were always difficult to deal with. So I always had to pepper my buying decisions with "was the gear good enough for me to forget about having to deal with Sony Broadcast on reapirs/warranty?" And then dealers were always a whole other deal as well. You really do have to be an educated consumer these days.
Best of luck with your Sankens.
Dan
I do think that you will like the Sankens, they are very good mics, really almost the standard lav on Hollywood features and television these days. It's not really my aim to try to discourage people from purchasing Countryman products. As I said, their products are great, it was just trying to deal with their staff that was so incredibly frustrating.
I think that everyone needs to evaluate equipment for their own needs and taste, but it can be helpful to know how companies interface with the outside world, whether it is exempelary (as in our own Jan Crittenden, our buddies at Spec Comm, my experiences with almost all of the major sound manufacturers, which has been excellent, particularly the nice folks at Sennheiser and Audio Technica or any other great vendors) or it is not so great, as was my experience in this case.
Whenever I buy any professional gear, to me, it is always a two part decision.
1. Is the gear good and does it suit my needs?
2. Is the company that manufactures it good to deal with as is the dealer I am buying it from?
When I was in retail electronics, at the time, Sony made the best video gear. I have owned numerous Sony cameras and Beta SP and DBeta decks. But Sony Broadcast were always difficult to deal with. So I always had to pepper my buying decisions with "was the gear good enough for me to forget about having to deal with Sony Broadcast on reapirs/warranty?" And then dealers were always a whole other deal as well. You really do have to be an educated consumer these days.
Best of luck with your Sankens.
Dan