Okay, now I am Having Fun.

[rkat]

On the sets I worked on, we were called Backround Actors.

That pretty much settles it for me.

And I sincerely apologize for any rude comments I made, but, this is a tough
business and we're all working our asses off to make it.

 

[Nathyn]

Nate....

sighhh if only I was 20 or more years younger...lol.

LOL. I'm not as young as people think. But the youthful look does come in handy.

my point was, is and will always remain that BG are not actors but background extras and that by continuing to do extra work you decrease NOT increase your odds of moving up the chain. it is that rare lucky chance Doc mentions...but it is rare. i am trying to help increase the odds for extras to be actors, at least for those who want to make that move. some don't. and i also mentioned those folks are wonderful to work with. did you miss that too?

The fact is a lot of people who are doing serious acting will flat out say "I won't do extra." They may take a featured extra role if they have a few lines and a name but they won't do background. This is not to say extras aren't "worthy" or no good actors came from being extras, I've done background once for a print ad, heck it wasn't even for a film. But most of my other roles are leads. Then again I make my own films. LOL.

-Nate

 

[Yeddi]

I think it really depends where you come from. The whole BG (which I'm assuming are extras - different continents, different lingo) I think depends on where you are from. I'm from Australia, so the extra or stand-in route isn't a bad way to go because they often get bumped up to speaking roles. Addmitedly, there's a slightly different way of running things here. As I understand even one-liners have to be auditioned in America. Auditioning costs money, so with our tiny little budgets little roles like that are often picked by resume, and extra work would indicate that at least they are working and looks better then no work at all. However, acting is really a demand/supply industry, in a country with such a large and highly trained acting population I could see how extra work might be seen as an issue. But I also think that writing off all extras at not actors is a bit presumptuous and a little snobby. Acting, by definition means "to do" - while extras might not be saying anything, they are "doing" their role, so by basic Oxford dictionary definition they are acting.

 

[Michele Seidman]

On the sets I worked on, we were called Backround Actors. That pretty much settles it for me.

Do you call a camera loader a DP? Do you call a PA an AD? Do you call a set electrician the Key? No? Why not? Because they are not doing the same job but the loader often wants to work up to DP and the PA is often paying their dues to get in the DGA and work their way up to AD and then Director.

LOL. I'm not as young as people think. But the youthful look does come in handy.

dang dude...now i want to know....age? lol

As I understand even one-liners have to be auditioned in America.

Yep...you are right. MOST one liners are auditioned here.

I could see how extra work might be seen as an issue. But I also think that writing off all extras at not actors is a bit presumptuous and a little snobby. Acting, by definition means "to do" - while extras might not be saying anything, they are "doing" their role, so by basic Oxford dictionary definition they are acting.

I did not write them all off at all. BY definition an actor acts and most extras don't. An actor pays their dues by training and doing theatre and indie film work.

I am not trying to be a snob Yeddi....I teach this stuff and here in the states it is and can be a hazard to be seen as an extra. I was an agent..I have seen it over and over and over.

 

[Michele Seidman]

On the sets I worked on, we were called Backround Actors.

That pretty much settles it for me.

And I sincerely apologize for any rude comments I made, but, this is a tough
business and we're all working our asses off to make it.

rkat...I thank you for the apology on the comments. and i know how hard it is...you may find it hard to believe at this moment but I am really trying to help you. i am trying to make it a little easier. i am trying to help you find a way over, around and through it.

i am sincerely NOT trying to demean extras.

 

[Yeddi]

I am not trying to be a snob Yeddi....I teach this stuff and here in the states it is and can be a hazard to be seen as an extra. I am not making this up. I am quoting what has been said to me over and over by major casting directors and agents all over the country. THEY don't view extras and actors the same. certainly some who train to be actors do some extra work but here...the more they do extra work...the harder they make the job for their agent.

...

Call me a snob if you want on this but since the two jobs do not require the same background or training...I will not call extras, actors. Not because I find little value in extras...but because they rarely have to interpret as the definition of the word actor quotes. I tend to be very literal and that seems to make everyone very upset on this topic. I did not say that NO extra has NEVER trained to act.

On set they don't do the same work. An actor interprets a character and an extra does not. Simple and not being snobbish...just being honest and using the language that way it was defined by the ancient Greeks and as the word has been used for centuries before I was born.

Umm, okay. I was actually taking you literally. :huh:

Doc...really happy for you but a lot of actors get upset when people claim to be actors while doing extra work.

So this really wasn't a general comment but a specific one? You weren't talking about other actors but yourself if you have instantly attributed my remark as being directed towards you. Maybe I shouldn't be taking you literally but reading in between the lines.

I think you are being very hyper-sensitive here. Why are you taking this personally? Why so defensive? Why are we getting your resume in a "respect my autho-ra-tay" manner? And why the need to force your point. I'm pretty sure people got what you were getting at the first time, they just don't necessarily agree and you can't make them. and Why give me another dictionary reference, and from wikipedia no less (not exactly the most reliable source)? I think you might be a little insecure, but it comes across as a little condescending, even if the posts are with the best intentions. I think the rebuttals have been more about the perceived attitude behind the writing, rather than the actual content. Just a thought.

BTW Doc - congrats! :beer:

 

[Michele Seidman]

So this really wasn't a general comment but a specific one? You weren't talking about other actors but yourself if you have instantly attributed my remark as being directed towards you.

Since I AM the one who several have called a snob on this, how did you expect me to take it when you used the same term? I DO teach this so maybe it is wrong of me to try and teach anyone here. I have taken several things personal here because several comments were directed AT me about MY resume and about MY age and so on.

 

[Michele Seidman]

PS to ALL


This site is about sharing info and helping others by lending what you know to them.

 

[Michele Seidman]

Crap, look what I started. Urination for distance contest? Film in the making? "Where the Yellow Stream Flows"? "Going the Distance"? "The Whizz"?

Now look what you made me say.

ok..not for nothing Doc but I am going to brag on you


Have any of you seen this short film Doc was a T.A. on? Check this out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTx0gfSIb5E

Doc Bernard made those gun scenes look incredible. And when you consider the budget....oh my Doc....I would hire you in a minute!

 

[Yeddi]

Since I AM the one who several have called a snob on this, how did you expect me to take it when you used the same term?

Seeing I was talking about the topic, I didn't think how YOU would take it at all.

I DO teach this so maybe it is wrong of me to try and teach anyone here even if my info has helped plenty. I have taken several things personal here because several comments were directed AT me about MY resume and about MY age and so on.

If you hadn't given your resume, then people wouldn't have said anything about it. I was not one of the ones who questioned the particulars of your resume, just the reason why you were giving it, yet you have been aggressive in your responses by assuming offense. As a female near the age of 30 myself, I would not question your age or gender, so you can rule those perceived offenses out if you have somehow attributed them to me.

As for the definition source....please find any dictionary that says extras are actor and defines being told to "walk from point A to point B as 'interpreting a character" If you can find a dictionary anywhere that claims that as interpreting...then I will stand corrected. But source or not that IS the original definition from the root word used by the Greeks for centuries.

Now come on! You can't be serious? You have asked a question, deliberately placing in ridiculous caveats in order to ensure they can't be refuted. I would not be able to find such a definition as the term extra is a modern term, that has been allocated simply because of the size of productions have now enormously increased. But I will point out three interesting points.

1. As there was no term as "extra" in the times of ancient greece from which the definitions you have supplied have based their interpretation, all those who performed would have been known as actors.

2. As a female, you would not be able to call yourself an actor. Performers could only ever be men.

3. The etymology of the word "actor" does not come from the Greek, but from the Hebrew, pre-dating the Greek by about 600 years (at least) and has stemmed from the word "hypocrite" which means "to pretend".

Sorry if I hurt peoples feelings but that IS what producers, directors, agents, managers and casting people say. I DID NOT MAKE UP UP. IT IS NOT MY OPINION. IT IS WHAT HAS BEEN SAID TO ME...I was the messenger and keep getting shot at.

You see, heres the problem. You've assumed *WE* (as in us plebs here on the site) don't know or have access to this type of information ourselves. Seeing you are so into resumes perhaps I should give you mine.

I have a degree in Literature and a Masters in Media Communications. I am a published and produced writer, director and producer.

The point of that is, that as a producer/director I use the terms extra and actor interchangeably. I do not look down on those who have lots of extra work, in fact it shows me that they have a good work ethic and have at least been on a set recently and I would be more likely to give them a job then some trained actors that have sat on their arse for the last six months. And as someone said before, quite a lot of extras are actor trained. I also do not necessarily give more credence to a degree trained actor over a back of broadway trained actor. I believe that there are just some things you can't learn in a school and nothing can substitute for life experience.

Now as for this statement, you were not just passing on the message, you were trying to ram it down people's throat with an air of authority, particularly when people like myself didn't agree with it. Now that I have been forced to a certain extent to reveal my own resume, you should see I don't need you to do that. Now I did admit that some places and people may feel the way you have expressed but that doesn't make it a given, nor does it mean you can have a go at those who don't agree with you.

Now you make off comments that I can consider as you being nasty to me too. So nice of everyone to take what was done to help as something meant to rip their world apart.

It's not what you say, it's the attitude in which it is delivered. And no one is ripping your world apart. I know actors are meant to be dramatic but that is over-kill.


Anyway, I've had enough of this conversation, I've said my bit and I'll leave it at that.
Have one on me :beer:

 

[Yeddi]

In regard to the Gig. That's a nice little short for your showreel Doc. I was impressed that my attention stayed mostly on you despite the Dealer's eyebrows. Those were hypnotic, like fuzzy caterpillars dancing.

 

[Doc Bernard]

Thanks, Michelle! And, you too Yeddi. We gave him a hard time about his eyebrows. And the kid at the end was a bit over the top, but that was the look the director wanted. Working with kids though, jeez, that took 8 takes just to get to that point.

A little more background on GiG: This was a 72 hr Project for Campus Movie Fest at UCLA. I was brought in to wrangle weapons, teach tactics/weapons handling, and help out a bit with SFX (Blood and Glass). I ended up also being the SWAT team leader. But my credited titles ended up as "Stunt coordinator/Armorist" and "SWAT Team #1" though I could of taken a lot more credits. (SFX Coordinator, Traffic control, 2nd Unit Director, TA (Sound) since I taught their PA how run a boom pole) The 2nd Unit Director was because the Director turned both the entry scene and the shootout scene over to me to script and direct the action sequences. That was fun!

Okay, back to the discussion at hand.

 

[Michele Seidman]

Yeddi

This started when I tried to explain how being an extra could hold someone back. Then it became a chance for many to get mad at me for saying it. You yourself mention you heard we do things different here. Yes, we do.

Just so everyone is aware...my goal when I started was to be a performer but to also help others do it. I have met my goals. I love doing what I do and I love helping others reach their goals. I get as happy for the actors I trained as if it happened to me. Yet, people decided I was bitter for not reaching the goals THEY set.

Your last post suggested I was putting down extras. I praised extras in almost every single post. Pardon me (and i use pardon NOT as sarcasm) for missing the Hebrew root of the word but at 3am it was difficult to spend much time seeking dictionaries. I went first to the quickest source at hand. You still don't call a camera loader a DP or a PA an AD!

I happen to agree with you about using those who are near at hand BUT here in the states there are too many of the BG who have never taken a class and don't know how to deliver a line. In this area alone there are over 20,000 extras listed in one county of our state that has over 100 counties and this country has 50 states as you know. The vast majority (not all) don't know how to act but hope to be discovered.

(I DID modify all my posts on the subject in hopes that no one attacks me anymore)

Once more and without sarcasm...pardon me for trying to help them see what is going on behind their backs here in the states. I was trying to give them a fighting chance of working around over and through being pigeon holed as extras.

 

[rkat]

rkat...I thank you for the apology on the comments. and i know how hard it is...you may find it hard to believe at this moment but I am really trying to help you. i am trying to make it a little easier. i am trying to help you find a way over, around and through it.

i am sincerely NOT trying to demean extras.

I understand, Michele and thank you for accepting my apologies. I have
no interest in creating enemies. It's the New Jersey in me I guess.

 

[Michele Seidman]

It's not what you say, it's the attitude in which it is delivered. And no one is ripping your world apart. I know actors are meant to be dramatic but that is over-kill.

This is the last I will say directly to you on this subject. See your words attributing the 'rip the world apart' comment? YOU attribute it to me claiming they were ripping my world apart.

I said THEY were acting like I was ripping their world apart. That is a HUGE difference.

I sincerely don't mean this to be rude or snide but how is it you took my comment about their reaction and make it my reaction? Was it late for you too? Or had we both gone back and forth so much you did start to skim read?

 

[Michele Seidman]

I understand, Michele and thank you for accepting my apologies. I have no interest in creating enemies. It's the New Jersey in me I guess.

lol rkat...

no worries. i lived in NYC for a long time got a thick hide from it. lol...just glad you know i really did mean it to help and never meant it to come off like i was talking down. i am so sorry if it did. i think i have been teaching too long maybe and go auto pilot like i need to fix things for everyone!

 

[Doc Bernard]

For anyone who is interested, here is another film (same Production Co.) I TA'd as well as being one of the Cam Op's for. Slick

This is just the trailer, it premiere's 2-18-09 at UCLA.