Getting 4:4:4 out of the Red One

the files are 4:4:4 but that doesn't mean you actually get real 4:4:4 image out, you don't even get a accurate color reproduction out.
 
not wondering why you ask so many questions no

more wondering why you need all the answers by yesterday

:)
 
I think that the real question is why oh why is the red is $20k and a viper cam is $200k, everytime I bring this up, it spikes so many different views, think about it, one cam shoots 4k and the other shoots 1080 but the price is so different, why?
 
Bumping after 2 hours? Really? WOW!

Viper... well the same company that owns Viper also owns two huge production companies. It also is a more well established camera in regards to age. On the other hand, the RED's capability to do 4K will lead it to further expansion, greater success, and more adapters... mostly due to its lower reasonable price. OKAY so this is pretty much paraphrasing another post on another forum.

Anyway... google is your friend dan!
 
image quality, viper produces much better quality uncompressed,the latitude, tons of times better in low light, there is a range of pros to using that cam, like there is a range of cons with the red, like a not usable shutter with camera movement, softening of the image, and the tons of other cons that you probably know and just choose to forget or ignore.
 
Dan if you are going to be shooting RED, I highly highly recommend you to break out the coffe machine and perpare yourself for some long nights at reduser.net
take my experience as example, about 6 months ago director calls me up and says "hey we are shooting a spot next week and I want you to DP" I say ok and ask what cam he has in mind, he tells me he wants to shoot red, problem was that I had never shot red nor even seen a red cam in person, so pretty much I had a week to learn the red camera without even touching it, yeah lots of long nights at the red forum but I am glad it happend that way because the spot turned out great and it was sorta of a hyper crash course on the red cam, happy new year everyone :)
 
HAHA Joseph its kinda like someone else mentioned already, p2 workflow was the gateway drug that leads to understanding the red workflow
 
aalleexx said:
Dan if you are going to be shooting RED, I highly highly recommend you to break out the coffe machine and perpare yourself for some long nights at reduser.net
take my experience as example, about 6 months ago director calls me up and says "hey we are shooting a spot next week and I want you to DP" I say ok and ask what cam he has in mind, he tells me he wants to shoot red, problem was that I had never shot red nor even seen a red cam in person, so pretty much I had a week to learn the red camera without even touching it, yeah lots of long nights at the red forum but I am glad it happend that way because the spot turned out great and it was sorta of a hyper crash course on the red cam, happy new year everyone :)
Click to expand...

Well, since you seem to be reluctant to be specific, could you mention a few problems with Red...


Since I have no knowledge of Red, and have only heard that it will bring down Film as we know... (cue REM's "End of the World"...)

Some thoughts, based on my own recent peewee league experiences with the Panasonic HMC150 are:

1) Codec support for my editor... FC Express doesn't support, in my case, AVCHD 'natively', hence the need for importing and transcoding to an Apple Intermediate Codec.
2) Even with transcoded footage, editing on my equipment began to show signs of not being able to do 'real time' playback. As well as requiring more storage online for the HD footage.
3) Calibrating the effective ISO number for the camera. Apparently I seem to be in a minority when I want a simple equivalent number to use when judging if I have 'enough' light for the camera to avoid noisy images.
4) Not my problem these days, but when I made the transition from still film to digital still imaging, I was really 'missing' the latitude of the negative. The only thing that made sense was to think like I was shooting slide film... that is less latitude, and easily blown highlight values.
5) Camera quirks that just defy explanation... Since I have a DVX100, the HMC150 'felt' familiar...
 
amrrahmy said:
image quality, viper produces much better quality uncompressed,the latitude, tons of times better in low light, there is a range of pros to using that cam, like there is a range of cons with the red, like a not usable shutter with camera movement, softening of the image, and the tons of other cons that you probably know and just choose to forget or ignore.
Click to expand...

what softening of the image exactly?
 
i think they would refer to it as the milky effect, or film effect that the camera has, which is a load of something but has nothing to do with film, the image looses most of the sharpness, the image captured with the camera will always loose too much sharpness that it would look bad at 4k, but acceptable to good at 2k cause is would have detail to cover for the sharpness loss, depending on the scene some things loosing that much sharpness without having detail will effect the image permanently, so even if the image is drastically downsized to anything it wont do it any good, also you won't be able to use allot of filter that affect sharpness as a side effect, and there are allot of situations where there won't be too much detail to cover for sharpness, so you will get that effect allot while filming.also some other factors add to that, like the narrow (gray area) light sensitivity combined with the start of the noise and clipping.
 
thanks for the explanation...

holds plenty of great detail over here, and when downsized to 2K, it can be devastatingly sharp without aliasing.
 
I suppose thats why so may feature films are being made with Red...Big Hollywood Films...Because it sucks?

Dan go to Reduser and learn all about the camera first hand, talk to experts who work daily in the big leagues using it effectively...Then make an educated decision based on fact not hear-say nor nej-say.


DogDay.
 
kenn michael said:
holds plenty of great detail over here, and when downsized to 2K, it can be devastatingly sharp without aliasing.
Click to expand...

As someone who's owned and used a RED for over six months, I've never had an image that was devastatingly sharp when scaled to 2k. As long as I've not ADDED sharpness, the image is beautiful. It's sharp, but just enough to look nice and sharp in 1080p. I've also never had an issue an issue with aliasing going to 1080p. I think the issue comes up more with going to SD. Of course, I haven't had an issue going to SD either, but I'm sure I will hit it at some point when I shoot something with a ton of straight edges.

The difference between the RED and the Dalsa is recording compressed RAW vs recording 4:4:4 or uncompressed RAW. Of course, recording 4:4:4 or uncompressed RAW is much more of a hassle. The RED's 30MB+ a sec compressed RAW looks pretty good and has a ton of latitude if you expose correctly for your subject. Yes, there will be some noise, but I've never found it objectable after looking at cameras like Varicam and the F900 there were NOT under exposed. You really just have to know how to work with the camera to get the best image (true with any camera though!)

Of course, the RED also can record on CF cards and a small hard drive...can't do that on the Dalsa...

Matthew
 
Exactly Matthew.

I'm an owner too, and I was only making the point that IF you want it devastatingly sharp, you can do so by adding sharpening. I think they have the image in a great sweet spot that gives you smooth out of the box, but if someone who is used to the baked in sharpening that most video cameras offer wants the over-sharpened look you can do it.

Red is resolving plenty of detail. It holds up on the biggest screens and looks gorgeous. AND you don't need s.two or codex boxes and crazy video villages to capture the data.
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
Well, since you seem to be reluctant to be specific, could you mention a few problems with Red....
Click to expand...

I am not specific because I dont belive this is the proper forum to discus that, I have seen it many times before that moderators really encourage users that want to get detaied about the red to please visit the forum for the red, there is plenty of valuable info overthere and if you have specific questions, they are going to be answered much faster and detailed, thats how I learned everything red, and the reason why I post and love this forum is because I do about 3-4 RED shoots a year, the rest of the year I am shooting dvcpro HD, best of luck
 
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