Ted Spencer
Veteran
lol : )
The Trials of Working With Actors
- Thread starter RobinFrank
- Start date
lol : )
Michele Seidman
Well-known member
We actors can be die hard's at times. I once did a stage show and knew at the start of the last week I was going to need surgery. That Wednesday when we opened back up for the last week I was in bad shape and it got worse day by day. I was the lead and had almost no breaks between scenes of a full 3 act and when I did, the found me on the floor trying hard not to feel the pain because I can't take any pain medication.
Sunday when we did our last matinee show, as the curtain fell I went to the dressing room, packed my things and was in surgery in the emergency room in less than half an hour.
But dag nab it...I made it on stage for every show without fail and without dropping a line!
Someone probably should have smacked me one...but I did it!
filmman you made some great points. if you don't mind i would love to print that out and give it to some students. i often try and tell them about these things during class but a print out like this would be very cool....
do you mind?
kimko...
ha ha ha chortle and guffaw!
Michele Seidman
Well-known member
Prodigi
I have seen it at least 4 times and 3 were new directors. I tell you that is a hard place to be. An actor who has been around the block doing a day player gig on a directors first major film.
Holy crap it is hard to work under and for someone who knows less than you do...and they can get so flustered and convince themselves it is the actor and not their lack of direction. That is a really hard place to be. I have been there and did not enjoy it too much. I sat on my hands and kept my mouth shut and stayed out from under foot.
It is not like I can take the director aside and tell him what he is doing wrong when I day play. In one case I did get cut out of something based on lack of decent direction and not bad acting. It was the only time I ended up on the cutting room floor for anything other than time constraints and being on the tag of a scene they could chop.
I have told directors when I am in a lead or have a good comfort zone with them. I have given advise on indie stuff...but features with large budgets have an ego all their own!
I once worked on one with 2 directors...2, 1st AD's AND a Cinematographer who ALL were giving direction at once. When one of the 2 directors called me out on not doing what he asked I finally did open my mouth out of frustration. I said "you and the other director and both AD's and the man on camera have all told me different things, so please tell me who to follow and I won't listen to anyone else and tell them you said so". The next take was a 1 take...but we had done 5 before due to all the friggin cooks in one kitchen! Talk about a cluster...
But it also got me cut earlier than they planned and a promised upgrade stripped out from under me...I was blamed for their system failure and took the loss for it! To this day I do not list it on my resume.
M
Nathyn
Low Budget Ninja
We were doing a long dialogue scene in my first film. The actress was doing well but was having trouble with her lines. I didn't beat her over the head or anything I was very gentle. I took her outside and spoke with, encouraged her and let her finish the scene. Later it seems she had had a crying fit at some point. I was shocked. And people who heard about this (or saw her cry) thought I was a tyrant on set.
-Nate
-Nate
Michele Seidman
Well-known member
Nate
If you took her aside then you did the right thing. I don't know the lady but if she went on a crying jag later...seems she was trying to milk someones sympathy. I could be wrong but I have seen it happen too.
Michele Seidman
Well-known member
Nate
It is also possible that her tears were based on exhaustion and the work that day and not you. maybe others read it wrong too. glad you had what you needed though!
Michele
It is also possible that her tears were based on exhaustion and the work that day and not you. maybe others read it wrong too. glad you had what you needed though!
Michele
jls4
Veteran
Wow! On my set I allow all of my people from Audio to other actors give comments to create the best scenario for the actor, however I DO clarify what direction I want the actor to follow after people have spoken up. I can see how that could be confusing. I'm now wondering if I've confused anybody working with me. I'll definately be watching myself from now on.
Don't cast anyone till you figured them out on and off camera. Get someone to come stand around with you and bring over their DVX, use whatever, but put a couple of lights on them... make it a couple of kinos or just a pair of stingers, just for the effect it will have on them. And tape them a lot...
Don't get upset at the actor on set, ever, unless you have seen that they respond well to pressure in which case it might work best.
Find out if they respond well to praise, it could be the worst thing to do with some people.
Gain their respect, get it done. Then never lose it.
Don't ever hire someone that doesn't respect you.
Take some gosh darnet acting classes if you want to Direct.
And for actors, the only Director you ever want to work with in this crappy town is me. Everyone else is full of it and are the suxors whie I am totally c00l and not a n3rd at all.
Don't get upset at the actor on set, ever, unless you have seen that they respond well to pressure in which case it might work best.
Find out if they respond well to praise, it could be the worst thing to do with some people.
Gain their respect, get it done. Then never lose it.
Don't ever hire someone that doesn't respect you.
Take some gosh darnet acting classes if you want to Direct.
And for actors, the only Director you ever want to work with in this crappy town is me. Everyone else is full of it and are the suxors whie I am totally c00l and not a n3rd at all.
Michele Seidman
Well-known member
Wow! On my set I allow all of my people from Audio to other actors give comments to create the best scenario for the actor, however I DO clarify what direction I want the actor to follow after people have spoken up. I can see how that could be confusing. I'm now wondering if I've confused anybody working with me. I'll definately be watching myself from now on.
jls4
it only works if you make sure your actor knows the final word is yours AND you give them a final word before you shoot the take. in the case of the film i mentioned, every time one director would walk away, someone else would walk up and give me new direction before the take without ONE person being the final word...until i pointed it out. and as mentioned it lost me my upgrade for pointing out a flaw on set.
as long as you make it clear where the final word comes from and actually give it...then an actor can follow it.
there should be 1 director and if others on set have ideas it should go to the director, not to the actor UNLESS the director tells the other person "please tell the actor this because i am not sure how to explain it".
it is confusing and it can lead to some issues. it may have worked for you so far because you may have already made sure that you are the final word and the actors know it....
Nate
maybe it is just me...but remember...i am an old broad and been doing all forms of acting for 30 years but there is only 1 director. it is the directors job to tell me what he or she wants on set. when all the sudden some grip or sound man starts giving me notes not related to their department it is not really fair to the actor.
all the sudden the actor does have to question who exactly is in control of the set.
like with jls it may have worked because you have made it known who gives the final word but since i have been the actor on the receiving end...i can honestly say i don't like getting directed by 5 people.
when Jack directed ALMTF he took info from Mac and Barry and David...but it was Jack who told me what he wanted or needed even if notes came from elsewhere. and notice...the film is doing well in festivals...and it was still a group effort and took all of us to make happen but when push came to shove Jack took the lead and directed his film...Mac shot it...Barry and David produced it...Doug, Patti and I acted.
we all did our parts and the meshing of all of that made for a great little short film! but only 1 person directed us!
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Michele Seidman
Well-known member
ps...if a sound man comes to tell me about volume or sound placement...no problem...
if a lighting guy wants to warn me about the light pattern and shadows...no problem
when anyone besides the director wants to tell me how to deliver a line or how to act or react...problem!
if a lighting guy wants to warn me about the light pattern and shadows...no problem
when anyone besides the director wants to tell me how to deliver a line or how to act or react...problem!
jls4
Veteran
I could probably understand that. So that's something I need to strongly consider as a director. What I've tried to do in the past is allow all comments to be considered for everyone. For instance, I've encouaged my actors not only to know where the placement of the microphone is, but to speak up if they don't think it's in the right place. Same for lighting etc. I really look at a movie as a collaborative thing and ask that people leave their attitudes at the door. I've had the DP tell me, "You should have them to act like this" and actors say "the lines don't make since this way, we need to go another way." These items, albeit in moderation, have helped me "save" many scenes.
I believe we are all learning at all times until we die, and hopefully I'll continue to learn and try to create the best scenarios for my team. the biggest issue I had on set was my lead actor, I'm not a fan of saying "Action." I tend to say "Whenever you're ready." This allows (in my mind) the actor to have time to prepare and not feel rushed. "Action" is a quick powerful verb something that "wakes up" a lot of people and in an intense or sensitive moment, it takes away from the mood.
My lead actor and I had several discussions about it, one time him complaining "Hey we're actors we need to hear you say 'Action'." And then I told him that every set works differently and he needs to be maliable. I said if you're on set with Clint Eastwood are you going to tell him you need to hear the word 'Action', cause you know he doesn't say it.
LOLBut it's all in love. So I never mind, but I should be sensitive to ask my actors in the future what type of environment they do best under, especially since I'm preparing to bring in some larger names on my next production.
Funniest thing... off subject. We brought in an up and coming "celeb" actress. She had worked in 5 major Box Office Movies and had her own TV show. And one of my actors totally took her into his world. In the scene, her character was an aspiring actress who did poorly in a movie. The actor she was playing opposite of, was trying to show her how she "should have acted". The scene from her "supposed movie" was a sad one, so the actor starts acting like his mother is dying and then yells at her for not getting the scene right. My actor, was litterally in tears and she was so taken by it that her emotions at the end of the scene were real. Kinda hard to explain over the Internet, but it was so funny! She was a trooper though, definately on my list to call again.
Michele Seidman
Well-known member
I totally get trying to get everyone involved but at the same time there does have to be one top dog on set, and that is in every department. Using your example of allowing an actor to say if they think the microphone is in the wrong place...well, how do I put this lightly enough...I am an actor and about to insult my own kind...What the heck do 95% of actors know about sound? Nothing!
Heck, I shoot video too and I have directed some shorts and documentaries, yada yada. Not a lot and nothing big but I hired the sound guys I hired BECAUSE they know about sound what I don't. I hire all my crew because they are better at the things I need than I am. The Dale Carnegie rule of thumb on surrounding yourself with the people who are strong where you are weak.
I am not afraid to say "I don't know how to do that". Not in a million years would I suppose that I know more than the person hired to do that job as to how it should be done. On the rare chance it is their 1st or 2nd booking...and me being at this so many years...yes, on those rare moments I might know better.
But it gets back to the Director. I think they need to know who has the right answers for the right areas. If you happen to have some crew who have been at this longer and DO have a great suggestion on the acting...it should still go to you before it goes to the actor.
Am I wrong... is the director not the one with the final say and 'vision'? If I am, please feel free to share with me why. I do like the idea of everyone being involved but I can see where it might turn to chaos too. lol..heck i have seen it...tee hee
I believe we are all learning at all times until we die, and hopefully I'll continue to learn and try to create the best scenarios for my team. the biggest issue I had on set was my lead actor, I'm not a fan of saying "Action." I tend to say "Whenever you're ready." This allows (in my mind) the actor to have time to prepare and not feel rushed. "Action" is a quick powerful verb something that "wakes up" a lot of people and in an intense or sensitive moment, it takes away from the mood.
My lead actor and I had several discussions about it, one time him complaining "Hey we're actors we need to hear you say 'Action'." And then I told him that every set works differently and he needs to be maliable. I said if you're on set with Clint Eastwood are you going to tell him you need to hear the word 'Action', cause you know he doesn't say it.
But it's all in love. So I never mind, but I should be sensitive to ask my actors in the future what type of environment they do best under, especially since I'm preparing to bring in some larger names on my next production.
I would never tell a Director what words he needs to use to call the set to action...but I would hope if he does not use the standard terms he would give me warning before the first shot so I can get his term in my head and not be caught off guard.
At the same time, many of those terms are standard and it could throw off many departments from sound to camera and lighting...not to mention crew and extras who might be standing around and don't know the camera is rolling. If everyone is given the term before shooting starts than everyone should be able to roll with it from actor to crew
lol...I use the sports term "your actors were in the zone". i personally love those moments when you get sucked in...
Michele
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jls4
Veteran
LOL... I actually teach everyone everything. I'll stand in front of everybody actors and crew and go over the basics of sound, lighting, and camera. Right now remember I'm on a small set with no 5 year pros. Mainly 3 year learners. I know more than anybody and I've created a solution to many problems by teaching the "whole class". That way everyone is looking out.
As I get more pros on set, the more I'll scale back this form of filmmaking - however I do hope that I'm able to keep the same type of love that is on our set.
I worked for a lady once as the Assit Director (AD) and every department fended for themselves. It was very "seperate". No one laughed beyond their little group. It felt like being in high school. Although I know I'll add a few of these elements sooner or later to my sets, I dread the day. I like going on set and having it a fun set. When I worked for the lady and her "politics" set, it was no fun at all. i remember thinking all day, "Dang, when is this going to be over." When we're on our set, most of us, beyond basic fatigue stay around chat, laugh, we're really in no rush. It's fun to be on set - meeting with friends.
Yeah, I agree. I actually have a rule of thumb. "I'll do any job, until I find someone who does it better. At that point I'll release the position to someone else." As more money comes in, this will tend to be more of the case. Right now I tend to be better than 85% of the people I run into. But I'm a rare bird.
Like I said above, about the whole release thing. I'm wondering sometimes if I am the best "director" solution. I'm definately not bad - better than most, but I'm starting to think I'm much more suited as a producer. Right now I'll continue as the director though to make sure the scenes and movie gets made in a way that I can be proud of. I can't take too many chances as the shoebox indie level. LOL
Yeah, this kinda p!ssed me off. But I knew it was in love, the problem was he brought it up at least 3 or 4 times. none of the other actors had a problem. I generally start with - "Quiet on the set, Quiet Quiet (pause) You got speed? (to both audio and video) ok... (pause) whenever you're ready..." If that's not telling you were starting what is? hahaha
We were all laughing about it because we felt that she might have not thought that we were as good - actors, crew as that, because we are a small group (4 crew/production members). It was even speculated that she thought about not coming out to shoot for us because it took her 5 days to respond to an inquiry. So by the end of the day she's coming to me appologizing for one scene - really concerned about how I felt about her performance. She did a great job - so don't get me wrong - I was just happy that most of us felt that she was somewhat impressed by our small set and group. So we felt like we made an impression.
I am suprised that I see a number of actors audition that do rather well, have a solid resume and then on set I have to give direction on how to hit a mark - WITHOUT LOOKING! Ive been lucky actually, I seem to find the good ones.
It takes experience... remember when you cast that experience doesn't grow on trees... not trying to make it sound insulting, please don't take it that way Noel. BTW, do you have any relation to a nice chubby fellow that goes by Santa? :huh:
The easiest thing to have to deal with is making a theater actor perform for the camera, but it still needs to be done. Shooting them a ton before they are officially cast is the best you can do... do call backs even if there is only one actor that you want to see... work with them one afternoon and gauge whether you can get them ready. Either way you should have an idea of how they will block from the auditions. Shoot fully blocked rehearsals with the rest of the cast. The best thing you could do is show them the footage so they understand... though unfortunately that could also backfire in a big way if you are dealing with someone craving approval or not too sure of themselves...
I like to be able to watch dailies with my actors, after I've already watched them alone or with other creative minds in the room. I will try to be able to find people like that... but sometimes you can't cast easy to work with, sometimes you have to cast whomever gives you what you want, even if that guy can't learn a single line of your dialogue. Even if you want to shoot yourself in the head in the editing room, sometimes pain can mean you are giving birth to something special.
Anywho, you see what I am saying...
I agree with this 100%. When I am directing, I would not let anyone but myself be involved in directing an actor. There is an intimacy there that needs to be maintained and a trust that needs to be protected. You are collaborating on a vision and interference is incredibly distracting. Acting is incredibly difficult under the best circumstances and you really need to create a safe space where the person doesn't feel subject to critique or a responsibility to interact with people on the crew as to their performance. (no matter how well intended)
If I am on another director's set and I have a note that I think might help a performance, I give it to the director. (taking the director aside) I would never speak to an actor for the same reasons. It's about respecting the director's process because that is so much of what a director does. I also am happy to receive contributions from crew members when I am directing and it can be really helpful, but always to me, not to the actors.
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