Striping the lens and flashing the film

indybones

indybones

Well-known member
Hi peeps...

I'm doing a bit of research into the filming process that went into saving private ryan...

I came across

http://www.theasc.com/magazine/aug98/five/index.htm

'To present war as ’up close and personal’ as we possibly could, we really deglamorized the technology we were using. The images we got involved a combination of several elements film stock, processing and a deconstruction of the slickness that you usually get with modern lenses. It was Janusz’s idea to strip the lenses, flash the film and use ENR; it was my decision to desaturate the colors. I came up with that notion while watching the color 16mm Signal Corps footage that George Stevens had done during the invasion of France. I was very taken with the desaturated look of that film; I have a feeling it was shot on Ektachrome stock.'

Can anyone enlighten me as to what kind of effect or visual aesthetic striping the lenses and flashing the film would give please, also ENR???. The theory and the actual look of the image. To see if I can simulate to a certain extent this in camera or post.

Many thanks

Indy
 
flashing the film reduces the contrast, so reduce contrast in your editing program

Ektachrome has more grain, especially the reversal, so add grain in your digital editing program to get that look
 
filmman said:
flashing the film reduces the contrast, so reduce contrast in your editing program

Ektachrome has more grain, especially the reversal, so add grain in your digital editing program to get that look
Click to expand...

Thanks Filmman...

''Flashing the film reduces contrast''..the blacks were crushed a lot in SPR and the highlights were blown if I remember rightly..mmmm...

''What is ''ENR"

Any idea what ''striping the lens'' would do?

Thanks for your help and advice

Indy
 
indybones said:
Hi peeps...

I'm doing a bit of research into the filming process that went into saving private ryan...

I came across

http://www.theasc.com/magazine/aug98/five/index.htm

'To present war as ’up close and personal’ as we possibly could, we really deglamorized the technology we were using. The images we got involved a combination of several elements film stock, processing and a deconstruction of the slickness that you usually get with modern lenses. It was Janusz’s idea to strip the lenses, flash the film and use ENR; it was my decision to desaturate the colors. I came up with that notion while watching the color 16mm Signal Corps footage that George Stevens had done during the invasion of France. I was very taken with the desaturated look of that film; I have a feeling it was shot on Ektachrome stock.'

Can anyone enlighten me as to what kind of effect or visual aesthetic striping the lenses and flashing the film would give please, also ENR???. The theory and the actual look of the image. To see if I can simulate to a certain extent this in camera or post.

Many thanks

Indy
Click to expand...

The 'stripping the lens' suggested to me removing any coating that a modern lense has to return to the 'uncoated lenses' of yesteryear. This adds haze, flair, etc. that modern photographers and cinematographers expect to be minimal or gone...

Here's a reference to the technique... I think you don't do this with your rented lenses...

http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/index.php?showtopic=21722


ENR is a Technicolor process and refers to the initials of the three italian guys who developed it... It is related to 'bleach bypass' type technique.

http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/index.php?showtopic=4431

Wiki Article on 'bleach bypass'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleach_bypass
 
ThanksJ1Clark...

How would you best describe haze and flair? Haze... maybe like the hot haze you find on long distance shots of tarmac, or haze as a kind of diffused mid tone wash out??

Flair as in lens flair or something to do with the way the mid tones and highlights are behaving. Sorry I'm getting very picky...lol...I'm just hungry for the knowledge...

And thank you for those links some really interesting stuff I will deffo look into...

Indy
 
I´m using my beloved Zeiss medium format lenses religiously - the ones without coating of the 60s and 70s give exact the look of a stripped lens.

Not sure if there is an adapter for your application.
I have a Nikon/Zeiss medium format adapter that goes on the Letus.

Best thing, the price is close to nothing (compared to cine primes).
I got mine under 200 Euros each on German Ebay. Most of them in mint condition.

My Timefest entry was shot with those famous lenses, have a look if you want.
At about 1:49, 3:46 and 5:08 you can see, what it can do to highlights ( in compination with A LEX and a HVX200 - don´t nknow what would happen on film)


http://exposureroom.com/members/FrankGlen.aspx/assets/878cd65038c5431c9fb60e6b6858efc5/

Frank
 
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Thanks Frank...

I see what you mean especially at 1:49, the highlights kind of bleed into the shadows and mid tones, a kind of limited bloom..

What did you say you shot this with?
An HVX200? and you've got a wide screen ratio there I think, was that in post with crops or with the lenses? And have you got the exact names of your lenses I'm liking the look.:thumbup:

I'm shooting with HVX200 so if I were to experiment with your kind of set up what other accessories would I need?

Thank you

indy
 
Look for "Carl Zeiss Jena" medium format lenses for "Pentacon Six or Kiev60" cameras.

Make sure you only look at the "Zebra Design" (the ones with black an white striped rings)
They are made in the heydays of Jena lensmaking most excelent quality- the later ones are coated and are not near the optical quality.

You are looking for

Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 4/50
Carl Zeiss Jena Biometar 2,8/80
Carl Zeiss Jena Biometar 2,8/120
Carl Zeiss Jena Sonar 2,8/180

Because of the huge diameter they are much faster than you suspect by the numbers.
The Flectagon 4/50 is almost as fast as a 1,2/50 Nikon - I mean, there is a difference, but not as much as you think.

I got an HVX with Railsystem, LEX with Nikon mount, Nikon to Pentacon Six adapter and than the lenses and mattebox. Got all the lenses and adapter tube from German ebay.

And yap, the aspect was cropped in post.

Go to german Ebay and type "Pentacon Six".


My setup looks like this (got a more elegant rail system now - those pics are older)

cool2sx1.jpg


cool3ki0.jpg


cool1mp3.jpg


Feel free to ask if you need any help.

Frank
 
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Wow thank you so much Frank for a very detailed reply.... :thumbup:
I got loads to think about there....

'I got an HVX with Railsystem, LEX with Nikon mount, Nikon to Pentacon Six adapter and than the lenses and mattebox. Got all the lenses and adapter tube from German ebay.'

How much roughly do you reckon all that set you back...especially the lens adaptor tube and the lenses???

Thanks again

Indy
 
You will have to spend between 50 and 200 Euros for a lens.
Don´t buy the first 5 lenses that you see - thou it´s tempting.
Be patient - we are wading knee deep in those lenses over here - there are almost 20 new auctions every week.
Only buy near mint or mint condition.
Be carefull with the Flektogon - lots of them have white speckles under the front lens. Let them pass by.
Only buy one that has not a single white spot (see pictures below)

If you can find a Ebay shop that has all the lenses you can save on collect shipping.
The adapter tube was 59 Euros

I would buy the LEX and rails used.

Frank
 

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Great thank you once again Frank for your help and advice very much appreciated...:thumbup:

I've just had a look on German e-bay and your right loads of them...
Am I right in thinking that if I were to get the

Nikon to Pentacon Six adapter and a lens(s) that you suggested it just a case of attaching them or am I missing something here...

for instance the

LEX and rails

I can see what the rails do, but forgive my lack of knowledge on the subject but the LEX is?

Thank you Frank :):thumbup:

Indy
 
The LEX (Letus Extreme) is a - so called - 35mm adapter.


http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/forumdisplay.php?f=113
and
http://www.letusdirect.com/

Without it there is noch chance to put an other lens in front of a HVX, since it has no interchangable lenses.

It comes with a Nikin mount (thou there are other mounts aviable)
Thats why I got a Nikon to Zeiss adapter between it and the lens.

Here is the Ebay number of a Nikon to Zeiss adapter tube: 250342063210
 
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