Joseph Stunzi
Veteran
Okay okay okay. What's the big deal with shooting at f/16? Why is that something you'd want? It destroys your depth of field shooting with a lens that slow right?
SGblade Beta Tester Reviews & Feedback’
- Thread starter Wayne Kinney
- Start date
PaPa
Major Contributor
This is nice footage! I really like the lighting... If only the bokeh was better I'd be sold - the bookshelf in the background of the close-up shot looks quite strange. It might be the vimeo compression artifacts. If you could post the still taken at, f.ex., 0:46... On the other hand ... who cares about what's not in focus
Well, first of all i was at F2.8. Everything in the background was quite flatly lit so it's difficult to judge the bokeh of the background. One is just a plain wall with no texture and the other is also flatly lit.
If you want to judge bokeh look at my other videos. You should ideally be shooting at F2.8 F 4 F 5.6 or F8 to render the lenses best quality image. Which is also where you get the best bokeh rendition.
If you don't like the look of this then forget the ultimate or even the LEX. Because this glass GG renders bokeh better than the LEX and apparently it is near identical, according to disjecta, to the letus Ultimate.
If you take a look at my exterior bokeh test 2, you will see the quality of the bokeh at different f stops with more textures to judge.
PaPa
Major Contributor
The point of this is to demonstrate the ability to shoot at F16. It is in no means there to tell you to do so, but to let you know that you have the freedom of shooting at whatever F stop you want, without restrictions.
The test was primarily to observe the limits of the adapter. That is all.
two keys to really get rid of shadows...ok got you, see that, with soft light it`s easy,good idea, we`re talking kino flo then....a large roll of (full ???) C T O over the close fill is very handy I see, you know your mood lighting for sure, excellent, gorgeous looking stuff and comforting to know the Blade can achieve it too.............I want one NOW..........(got work to do for heaven`s sake....)
Wayne, not to try to perpetuate the childish "are we there yet", but when do you think you'll have the final achromat so we can compare edge to edge sharpness and CA?
Thanks for the test guys can't wait to see more. Hopefully some full resolution HD video to look at grain closely.
Thanks.
Thanks for the test guys can't wait to see more. Hopefully some full resolution HD video to look at grain closely.
Thanks.
PaPa
Major Contributor
Grain from the adapter doesn't exist unless you are using the combinations of F stop and shutter that begin to show either the pulsation or visible GG spinning. In other words, the spinning Blade will not create any noise that isn't present from your camera and it's signal to noise ratio, depending on exposure.
Althought this isn't footage. It is a good indication of grain visibility of both the LEX and Blade at F8 on a nikon lens( which you would generally never shoot on the LEX )
But you can see right away that there is much more.. noise/grain on the LEX picture, and the noise visible on the blade image is due to the canon XH having +3db gain. Otherwise the image would be much less noisy.
Althought this isn't footage. It is a good indication of grain visibility of both the LEX and Blade at F8 on a nikon lens( which you would generally never shoot on the LEX )
But you can see right away that there is much more.. noise/grain on the LEX picture, and the noise visible on the blade image is due to the canon XH having +3db gain. Otherwise the image would be much less noisy.
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i for one m VERY happy to be shooting at F16....
@ f16 you still have much shallower DOF than with stock lens, except now your contrast, and image sharpness if peaked.
on a 85mm lens, @ F16, there really is only 1-2' of DOF.
BUT would you believe it.... my camera package and sgpro were rented out again.... back to back... i still havent been able to shoot a single frame other than one 10 second clip..... DAMMIT....
@ f16 you still have much shallower DOF than with stock lens, except now your contrast, and image sharpness if peaked.
on a 85mm lens, @ F16, there really is only 1-2' of DOF.
BUT would you believe it.... my camera package and sgpro were rented out again.... back to back... i still havent been able to shoot a single frame other than one 10 second clip..... DAMMIT....
Mike Harvey
Veteran
Assuming you had the improved achromat, would the entire zoom range be increased, or just upper end past z82?
Aren't you guys worried that the grain will look different at different zoom levels? You are actually making the grain bigger and smaller as you zoom in and out... right? I know it isn't that noticeable but just for proper understanding can someone corroborate this for me?
Timur, POST IT!
I can't wait to see if the new achromat adds a tinie-weenie bit of speed too...
I wonder what the ETA of those might be?
BTW, It looks solid. How does it feel? Could you kill a zombie if you chucked it at one that was chasing you? And let me pint out Wayne, that this is a make or break spec for my decision... :zombie_smiley:
Timur, POST IT!
I can't wait to see if the new achromat adds a tinie-weenie bit of speed too...
I wonder what the ETA of those might be?
BTW, It looks solid. How does it feel? Could you kill a zombie if you chucked it at one that was chasing you? And let me pint out Wayne, that this is a make or break spec for my decision... :zombie_smiley:
PaPa
Major Contributor
By changing the achromat, in this case making it stronger and changing it's focal length, you would basically have an increased magnification and further optical distance between your camera lens and the GG.
I don't think anyone has anything to worry about via the new achromat, it will only improve the adapter.
As it stands currently, i like my sgblade for the freedom of f stop and shutter speed, as well as it's simplicity for attaining perfect collimation and the X and Y adjustment. It has much sharper edges than my LEX with wide lenses, but the image is slightly softer ( only with the beta unit ).
One of the tradeoffs of having a stronger achromat is that you will change the focal length and allow the camera to zoom in further to focus on the GG, allowing you to use the entire zoom range of your camera ( theoritcally ) but one of the DOWN sides is that since the optical path is longer, you may have a sharper image at the center, such as the LEX, but the edges will become slightly softer, such as the LEX. Where as my current blade is slightly softer, but the edges are much sharper than my LEX. So what is more important?
I can't stand using my 24mm with my LEX, edges are unacceptable, so i avoid using it at all costs. Even with my blade prototype, i love using the 24mm lens. So yeah, softer image, slight bit of CA ( beta unit ) but overall functionality of the adapter, simplicity and improved GG function (spinning versus vibrating ) Puts the blade in another class above the LEX.
Lenses show a decrease in performance (most if not all areas) beyond F8. It's more like having the ability to reach 5.6 without apparent grain pattern and high shutter speeds.
Even outdoors in bright sunlight I can't see why anyone would employ an iris stop beyond 8. Even for steadicam shots 8 is generally more than enough when combined with the appropriate lens. I.E. 14~18mm focal length. By 5.6 if you still need to chop light you should be ready to use premium ND filters or, if you're using one of these Frankenstein Contraptions aka the 35mm Adapter, your camera's iris and then your camera's internal ND.
Even outdoors in bright sunlight I can't see why anyone would employ an iris stop beyond 8. Even for steadicam shots 8 is generally more than enough when combined with the appropriate lens. I.E. 14~18mm focal length. By 5.6 if you still need to chop light you should be ready to use premium ND filters or, if you're using one of these Frankenstein Contraptions aka the 35mm Adapter, your camera's iris and then your camera's internal ND.
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Joseph Stunzi
Veteran
I mean. F/16 with the blade. F/22 with the ultimate. I didn't know why you'd use that. Get some ND filters guys. I like the stronger lens mount on the blade, it looks advantageous. However, I really need to see how easy it is to backfocus. There's something to the tool-less setup of the Ultimate and Elite.
I want some videos of the device itself! Without the new achromat, it's hard to judge image quality. I really want to see final product footage versus first articles. That's just my personal opinion on these matters.
I want some videos of the device itself! Without the new achromat, it's hard to judge image quality. I really want to see final product footage versus first articles. That's just my personal opinion on these matters.
Joseph Stunzi
Veteran
Way to save my butt Kholi! I'm playing opinion card.
astigmatic
Well-known member
the two look pretty close to me, I would go with the one that has better lightloss or is cheaper... well I guess since the letus is american made? i'd go with that to support our horribly sagging economy..
PaPa
Major Contributor
you guys are missing the point. We were given the task of testing the limits. That is all. No one here is saying that they need F 16. Don't need to get excited over this.
Just so we can put this to rest without going off topic of the point of this thread:
The point of testing the limits of the adapter gives anyone who wants to purchase it the know-how should they ever want to stop the lens down to F16, regardless of the degradation in optical quality. So whether it's a smart choice or not, the fact is we now know through testing what the adapter is capable of doing, regardless if you would ever chose to shoot at that F stop or not.
Just so we can put this to rest without going off topic of the point of this thread:
The point of testing the limits of the adapter gives anyone who wants to purchase it the know-how should they ever want to stop the lens down to F16, regardless of the degradation in optical quality. So whether it's a smart choice or not, the fact is we now know through testing what the adapter is capable of doing, regardless if you would ever chose to shoot at that F stop or not.
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PaPa
Major Contributor
I just got an update from Hien le saying that i own the old achromat for the LEX, which if it was changed with the edge to edge issue with my LEX.
once I have the new(er) achromat, and i get my hands on the production blade unit, more comparison tests will be done.
once I have the new(er) achromat, and i get my hands on the production blade unit, more comparison tests will be done.
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I know this is sweet spot for most lenses, but it refers to sharpness rather than bokeh quality.
I own LEX and know what its bokeh rendition looks like. This is one of the reasons (the other being gg grain at higher f-stops/shutter speed) I've been considering getting SGPro. Now, with this upcoming Blade thing, I'm trying to figure out which gg i want, which is not easy...
Found it. Thanks. I just had a quick look at the most recent posts and didn't look at the older ones. I should have searched more before posting, I guess
PaPa
Major Contributor
Trez, yes, stopping down the lens of course brings you to a sharper quality image, but what i was talking about was the diffusion element of the bokeh rendition. When your lens is wide open more of the light is concentrated in the center of the bokeh and then diffuses more outwards as you step down. This is to be seen with most adapters that don't lose a lot of light. The more light you lose, the higher the diffusion rate, and the better the bokeh will appear.
