Pretend I'm stupid - why is this RED announcement so huge?

I will be so bold to SLIGHTLY disagree with Barry about the HVX vs HPX500 vs Scarlet.

The whole 35mm adapter thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If I want to go out and shoot something with a little DoF, I have to have an AC, a bunch of extra gear to lug around, and I end up with a camera that I can't do handheld...or can't operate alone.

So, the work that I do sort of lends itself to looking at an HPX. Yes, it'll cost more than an HVX with adapter and all the goodies to go with it, but the form factor of the HPX is very attractive to me...TO ME! But, the HPX rig will also do better in low-light, which I'm finding to be a HUGE issue!

And now the Scarlet has me thinking that maybe I should wait on the HPX500. Little better on the form factor, good price (I hope), and I'm counting on an incredible image...even at low light.

If you strictly make movies with a big crew, then yes, an HVX with lenses and crap draping all over your tripod makes sense.

As usual, we find that no one camera is for everyone. The arguments will continue until Panasonic starts giving out Varicams free, one per household. Then the arguing will start about "why are they only giving us ONE Varicam per househould?!"
 
Mike McNeese said:
I will be so bold to SLIGHTLY disagree with Barry about the HVX vs HPX500 vs Scarlet.

The whole 35mm adapter thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If I want to go out and shoot something with a little DoF, I have to have an AC, a bunch of extra gear to lug around, and I end up with a camera that I can't do handheld...or can't operate alone.

So, the work that I do sort of lends itself to looking at an HPX. Yes, it'll cost more than an HVX with adapter and all the goodies to go with it, but the form factor of the HPX is very attractive to me...TO ME! But, the HPX rig will also do better in low-light, which I'm finding to be a HUGE issue!

And now the Scarlet has me thinking that maybe I should wait on the HPX500. Little better on the form factor, good price (I hope), and I'm counting on an incredible image...even at low light.

If you strictly make movies with a big crew, then yes, an HVX with lenses and crap draping all over your tripod makes sense.

As usual, we find that no one camera is for everyone. The arguments will continue until Panasonic starts giving out Varicams free, one per household. Then the arguing will start about "why are they only giving us ONE Varicam per househould?!"
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I just saw this post. How do you not need an AC for the other cameras but you need one for an HVX + Adapter?

Geoff Reisner is a classic case of "get used to it". The man will lug around an entire RED ONE setup on his own and shoot a short and his focus will be SPOT on. No AC included.

An HVX + Adapter is a cake walk.
 
Kholi said:
I just saw this post. How do you not need an AC for the other cameras but you need one for an HVX + Adapter?

Geoff Reisner is a classic case of "get used to it". The man will lug around an entire RED ONE setup on his own and shoot a short and his focus will be SPOT on. No AC included.

An HVX + Adapter is a cake walk.
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Hopefully this isn't a stupid question since I've not yet shot with a DOF adapter, but wouldn't it depend on what kind of camera moves you are doing and how complex they are? Maybe most of the time you will not need anyone else, but I would guess there would probably be times when you would need a focus puller while you are tied up with operating the dolly or jib arm?
 
Shooting with smaller sensors can certainly make your life easier since your DoF will be deeper and keeing your subject in focus could be tough at times, but the control over your image isn't the same. If you need to make your DoF deeper you could close down the lens provided that you have enough light...
 
Nektonic said:
Hopefully this isn't a stupid question since I've not yet shot with a DOF adapter, but wouldn't it depend on what kind of camera moves you are doing and how complex they are? Maybe most of the time you will not need anyone else, but I would guess there would probably be times when you would need a focus puller while you are tied up with operating the dolly or jib arm?
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Not a stupid question at all. The real question is: How often are you on a dolly or a jib?

Chances are if you're talking about run and gun you aren't on either. Second, it's quite easy to pull and op while you're on a dolly. I'm crazy, but I've operated a RED ONE on a dolly with one foot, camera tilt with my right hand AND pulled focus with my left on Nikon lenses. Granted, it was a Music Video, but I've done it.

Jib? As long as it's not going too high up I can pull focus on a Jib without an issue. Once you start getting extremely high then you need a remote FF, naturally, and a monitor.

It's very very difficult to imagine yourself doing these things until you actually do them and practice. You begin to realize just how much you CAN do despite what other people "think" you can not.

By the way, I pull focus and operate on an HVX LCD without an issue. It only got better with the 200A LCD and RED LCDs.

Once you put your hands on an adapter + cam and use it a lot you realize what you can do with it all by your lonesome.
 
Amen Kholi! I too have been surprised when I realize that you can do things people say you cant do, like pull focus by sight during panning and push-in dolly moves at f1.2! Its amazing what you can do when you stop believing what most people say and go ahead and try it out yourself!
 
Oh I don't know - i'll chime in for the hpx500, its an incredible value for money package for a camera in its league! Its also a testimony to how few we see for resale too! I would choose it over a Red, if offered one today, anyone getting an hpx500 (or other 2/3 camcorder) will be doing so for reasons, beyond the superficialities seen here.

I just imagine how many 2/3 video cams are er seemingly doomed... because of Scarlet and its specs etc. So meh, i find the hpx500 a perfect balance for corporate/film can we say the same will EVER apply to a Red? If not, they'll remain users like me needing hpx500s and their equivelants that are flexible in their useage. Note Panny and Sony haven't announced 28k res chips presumably because there isn't a genuine requirement...

Some of it is madness... i mean take the 28k chip lol, why? If you take that example to its logical conclusion, then if you were just thinking 'image' (and nothing else) why bother with any traditional camcorder. Why bother with top CineAlta's... Varicams... when you can have this mystical Red...

Why bother with an hpx3700 for example, it will be obsolete compared to the Scarlets image specs? Im expecting the next announcement to suggest that Red will cure hemorrhoids too.

So in my opinion the news isn't important... its fluff and candy meant to make schoolgirls giggle ;) To make indie filmmakers who are, as ususal, lucky to have two salty coins to rub together, think their going to buy a gimicky camera that will let them churn out hollywood epics faster than they can cook a microwave dinner.



Unless... the new Red works as efficiently as it should, has a realistic workflow, and a met delivery schedule.
 
I find it interesting that no one is commenting on the newly announced RED Lenses. They have AF. They look like still lenses, but I'm sure they'll work for motion, too. I'm curious to see how the Autofocus works and their price range. I'm sure these lenses are to compete on the emerging adaptor market. I imagine that, obviously, they won't give the same level of control as the $10 000 Red Cinema lenses, but should perform similar to still lenses on an adaptor...minus the adaptor and with autofocus. Prices for these new lenses should be, I imagine, on the 1000 to 5000 USD price range...

If I can get a full S35 Scarlet package (with a decent lens) for 10 000 USD, I'll definitely jump on the wagon. The only down side on the 7000 USD Scarlet is the lack of High Speed 120fps. I sincerely hope Red gives us 2k High Speed for the more expensive Scarlet.

Lets not forget the 2/3 Scarlet, which also seems very interesting. I would like to see if the Fixed lens option comes at an A1 price point, and if the bundled Lens can be sold separately with AF for the interchangeable lens body. If the interchangeable lens 2/3 body with the lens+ everything else to make it a Production ready run and Gun Camera costs about what i would pay for an HVX, I would definitely consider that as well.

Lets wait for the prices announcements...
 
Thanks Kholi. I mainly do run-n-gun shooting and have operated my jib and dolly by myself. It may not be the easiest thing to do, but I agree, it can be done by one person. Sometimes I work with a small crew, especially on a short film because then you are not as distracted when you're trying to work with the actors.

I agree with what you are saying about the people who say, "you have to have X number of people to make a proper movie." Actually, I like to be lean and mean, and not have a ridiculous amount of people to keep track of. Once I have big budgets to work with then I'll hire a big crew.

As for a DOF adapter I haven't invested in one yet. The whole DOF adapter thing sounds like a pain in the arse, plus the low-light capability loss. Always seemed like in the end it was not worth it. Maybe once I got my hands on one and used it I would get used to the extra work required to set-up and operate it. At this rate though, I will probably wait for Scarlet and how Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, and Sony react to it.
 
hunter richards said:
Amen Kholi! I too have been surprised when I realize that you can do things people say you cant do, like pull focus by sight during panning and push-in dolly moves at f1.2! Its amazing what you can do when you stop believing what most people say and go ahead and try it out yourself!
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This is exactly why I do things before people tell me I can't. If I had no idea that I couldn't do it to begin with then it I haven't pre-limited myself from the get-go.
 
Kholi said:
This is exactly why I do things before people tell me I can't. If I had no idea that I couldn't do it to begin with then it I haven't pre-limited myself from the get-go.
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So maybe my idea of attaching my Canon A1 to a rocket is not such a bad idea? Maybe I should play it safe and attach the HV20 instead?
 
Nektonic said:
So maybe my idea of attaching my Canon A1 to a rocket is not such a bad idea? Maybe I should play it safe and attach the HV20 instead?
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The imagination is the limit! At least in my world; Neverland.

=P But you get what I'm saying.


Also, I will never downplay the necessities of an awesome crew. Just saying, you CAN do without so long as you know your gear and know yourself. It took me a long while to learn how to "walk" with a camera in my hands. But it was just about learning.

I'll take a crew any day, if I can't have one I'll do without.
 
Scarlet is looking pretty damn good. Hopefully they hit the Fall '09 mark. And, for post, it seems Adobe is leading the way with a smooth workflow solution.
 
"The thing that's so much more important than what camera you shoot on is the story, directing, acting, production design etc... There is no reason you couldn't win an academy award with a dvx-100 or HPX-170 right now."



winner.jpg


BINGO !!! Winner winner chicken dinner !




However I can't really say too much for the movies that have been coming out lately. It seems that all movie are using all kinds of fancy camera moves and TONS of CG. Now don't get me wrong I love CG and play with it all of the time. What I'm getting at is "most" movies today are sugared up with all kinds of fancy jib moves, CG, etc.. and forget about the story.... Ok enough said


All style no substance !!!







.
 
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SO, in your guys opinion, should a prospective camera buyer wait to buy (I own a JVC100 and am happy enough with it, but do want to upgrade soon) one of these new REDs, or is it too speculative, based on REDs track history?

john
 
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