Canon XH A1s & XH G1s - UPGRADED

The Canons...my experience with them. Shot a year long doc in 2004 with a GL-2. It broke down twice, and finally was replaced by Canon as a lemon. Loved the images though and the lens was sweet.

Was forced to shoot BTS on a bunch of episodes of Prison Break with the XL-H1. Easily one of the most frustrating cameras I have ever used. Useless eyepiece and no LCD, 40% of my footage was out of focus. For interviews it was workable but for run and gun in daylight, oy, a major handicap. Also, when you are zoomed in almost all of the way on the stock lens, the difference between in focus and grossly out of focus is just barely making contact with the focus ring and moving about 1/32,000th of an inch, the antithises of a pro lens. Even the Panasonic HVX and HPX lenses are better to operate with.

The Canons can make nice images in the right hands but overall, a very unsatisfying shooting experience with most of them. I like Canon still cameras much more than their video cameras.

Lame duck might be too harsh but semi-capable could be true based upon my experience.

Dan
 
I've never used an H1 - I never liked the XL form factor.

The A1 has an LCD, which has been rightly criticized for being too small. But it's quite high res, so its small size is mostly remedied by picking up a Hoodman H-300 magnifier/lens hood. I don't think people realize this $30 product exists, but it's a huge improvement which makes focusing much easier. I never shoot without it.

Furthermore, the focus ring sensitivity can be modified in the Custom Settings. I agree the stock setting is way too sensitive, but you can set it to "Slow" operation which becomes perfectly fine with a little practise. Manual focus is spatially repeatable on the ring, too. Basically, in run and gun situations, I have had little problem nailing focus with my A1. And the highly tweakable image produced by the 20x lens remains simply astounding to my eye.

But everyone is entitled to their opinion! Just my 2 cents.
 
A lot of people like to gripe about these cameras.. but I think they are great compared to other options.

They are perfect for documentary shoots. For the same budget as renting a single HVX200 and hiring someone to offload the P2 cards, we can rent two XH-A1's and hire two operators and get double the coverage. It's something to think about. Plus, these are the only cameras that (imho) record a high definition 24P image that can be edited without having a pulldown removal process (ie. Sony) or a time consuming ingest process in Final Cut Pro (P2 cards, etc). This saves time and money that is better spent elsewhere on our projects. We make a living shooting with these Canon cameras. For less than the cost of a P2 importing system (PC laptop = $500) we can get an HV-10 playback camera ($350+/-) and let our customers borrow them to capture the tapes themselves.

Plus, the XH-G1 offers something few cameras do: TC in and out. This is something I want to explore for future shoots.. Double system sound with 4 wireless mic's going to a Sound Devices recorder, sync'd with Ambient LockIt boxes going into each camera.

The only reason we haven't done this yet, is because it's cheaper just to buy a 2nd XH-A1 and record 2 channels on each camera (4 total) and get basically the same results, as long as we don't stop rolling. Double system would give us the ability to stop and start cameras anytime. But, at a significantly higher cost. Whether or not we could pass that cost on to our customers is unknown.

One thing's for sure. You can shoot high quality multi camera documentaries that are visually indistinguishable from other more expensive cameras at a much lower cost than your competitors. And, that has allowed a good living for me during the past year.
 
I was at a Civil War re-enactment today, shooting stills. I did see three different shooters with XA-H1s out there though, along with a few DVX100s.

I think that the Canons are capable of producing excellent images, as I said, I shot a year long doc with the GL2 and loved the images that I created with it.

But that XL-H1 is a nightmare to operate. Thanks for the heads up on the focus ratio setting, I never knew that control existed. That would make the lens a lot more livable if the XL-H1 has that feature.

Dan
 
OK - hang on guys, you have to think about the new technology that is about to enter the market here. RED are about to drop some big news this week (we hope) and if i owned a large multi-million dollar company, i would seriously want to see what my competitors are doing before i decided on my own companies direction.

Essentially, they have re-pakaged the same camera: True!
But we don't need to keep bashing them for what they do considering the current climate in the film industry.

Wait until NAB this year to see what people bring to the table. Do you think that Canon, Sony and Panasonic are going to sit and watch RED take away their hard earned market share. Sure it will do for a while, and probably for good reason, but they will HAVE to react to survive in the camera industry!
 
TheWakePlace.com said:
OK - hang on guys, you have to think about the new technology that is about to enter the market here. RED are about to drop some big news this week (we hope) and if i owned a large multi-million dollar company, i would seriously want to see what my competitors are doing before i decided on my own companies direction.

Essentially, they have re-pakaged the same camera: True!
But we don't need to keep bashing them for what they do considering the current climate in the film industry.

Wait until NAB this year to see what people bring to the table. Do you think that Canon, Sony and Panasonic are going to sit and watch RED take away their hard earned market share. Sure it will do for a while, and probably for good reason, but they will HAVE to react to survive in the camera industry!
Click to expand...

This is a very good point. I think that these "s" upgrades are meant to buy them some time. I would be willing to bet that they are already working on some great new stuff in the lab to counter whatever the Scarlet ends up being (at least we'll know what RED has in store for that in a few days).

The reason I was so ticked off when I saw these announced was that because I hold the A1 in such high regards that I felt like all the good work they did by creating the A1 was sort of let down by this lazy upgrade. The A1 is a really great camera that deserved to get a more substantial upgrade than this. Just like the original film in a series of sequels, the quality of the A1 set up huge expectations for a major upgrade whether it is an A1s or an A2.

What would have been better is to just lower the price of the original A1 and introduce some sort of SD card or Compact Flash recorder unit like Sony did. The separate recorder could be an optional item that could be purchased separately. That way they get quite a bit more life out of the A1 and can then release a kick ass camera to go head to head with the Scarlet a year or two from now. Or why not just include some sort of AVC-HD? It can't be that hard. They've got the card slot in the freakin' A1. Their consumer HD cams now all have AVC-HD. I would think that Canon would want to make sure that their customer base doesn't have any major reasons to go to an HMC-150. The A1 has higher resolution than the HMC-150, as well as pretty good low light for a prosumer HD camera and a longer lens. By keeping the tape drive and adding AVC-HD support they could have extended the life of the A1/G1 line until they deemed it necessary to do something drastically different down the line, possibly to compete with Scarlet.
 
imho this is really a gap stop upgrade, the standard 2-3 year minor upgrades that even car manufactuers practice. I don't really see what all the fussing is about.

Canon has essentially fixed most of the problems that people had concerns with when the A1 initially came out. Yes, it's nothing significant, but to someone who is still in the market and trying to compare sub 5k camera's the canon is winner, now even better with most of it's limitations fixed. (not including the RED Scarlet, which lets face it, the actual cost is much higher than what the body alone goes for)

Also if you read the American press releases they mention that the A1-s will have a separate product where you can record directly to a HDD or something like that. Better white balance range with subtle and smoother transitions between them. More steps in customizeable presets as well as half db for gain.
As for a minor upgrade this is great. The estimated new $4,000 price point however I think is a little absurd. Cutting it too close to the hvx, for $4,000 they should have added the adjustable framerate option. Canon is extremely conservative and has known to be fairly disappointing with their attempts to gouge you of your money for minor upgrades.

All in all, if the a1-s stays cheaper than $4,000 I think it'd be fairly worth it. All those people complaining about abolishing HDV tape recording need a reality check. Soo many people still use tape. Sure its old tech, but in general people are slow to adopt. While many of you are on the cutting edge of technology there are those who still generally prefer minidv, especially for archiving purposes.

I honestly don't expect a Canon prosumer camera to shoot to solid state (dedicatedly) for another 1.5 years. And while some people might be excited to see the cmos sensor, the general opinion i've seen is that 3ccd is preferred.

that's my 2 cents. feel free to correct me where ever you feel i am wrong. (hope i just didn't open up a can of worms)
 
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I shoot a doc with the Canon A1 in harsh ice cold environment, filming iceclimbers in winter, can you find a harder test? High altitude, long walks. I have recently bought the hv-30 with wide lens too.

There are some bads but the tapesystem works for me, the battery inside is great, the viewfinder and LCD are great. Some sand particles in the lens, but it works. No portable computer or harddisk for me during this job, tape is safe. So there is any reason to use this cam as it is, sure I can show you some problems and I did, and with the 'S' it is better now. The fringing in the lens, the audio system and the focus during zoom. For the money? Look at the image. Scarlet is impossible where I shoot.

Problem is that Canon reacts slow, and although they hear you! they never say they do...
 
I have the A1 for almost 2 years and don't have any issues with it in the field. It handles very well.

There is a very inexpensive, Canon eyepiece that fits perfectly and is my favorite viewfinder eyepiece I have ever had with any camera.
 
Yes the Scarlet will be out next year and it may not be the best choice for all, however, the fact that it is what it is and the revolutionary approach that RED is taking towards digital cinema cameras changes the playing field. The days of the slow and predictable reaction from the big cheeses of video camera makers is hopefully coming to an end. Now I don't expect a new model every six months or even every year. But when two years go by and they come out with a minor upgrade on the heels of the 5D mkII and less than a month before the Scarlet announcement just doesn't work for me in today's day and age. This is the kind of thinking that was acceptable in 2001 when they came out with the XL-1s, not 2008. RED has changed that.

Also, the fact that the 5D mkII exists is like a challenge to themselves (Canon). We all now think, okay, now you guys need to deliver this in an XL-H or XH-A price range and body styles. Canon will sell more lenses, video cameras, and DSLR camera bodies if they do this. Also, unless the fixed lens 2/3 Scarlet comes in at a price I can afford, I would rather buy an EOS mount A1-style camera with HDV or AVC-HD for $4,000 or less plus some lenses. Why? Well 3K would be nice to have, but I don't need it yet and don't want to have to spend a ton on a new editing computer. The 35mm DOF, interchangeable lenses, and maybe AVC-HD 1080/24p/30p/60i and 720/60p would be enough for me and I'm sure a lot of us.

So if you are listening Canon, then hopefully we'll all be pleasantly surprised by NAB 09.
 
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