Hard to go back to an adapter...

yea but isnt an epic like 40,000$?

its a different classof camera... how much will it effect RED 2nd hand prices? thats like saying the HPX3000 is going to effect the HPX500 used market....
 
RED ONE's value isn't going anywhere. Which is strange to say considering there are way too many out there to begin with considering what it does. I know someone that just sold one of his USED camera for thousands more than he purchased it for and the buyer pre-paid because they HAD to have it asap.

EPIC will not do anything to the RED ONE market, I think, specifically because of what Tim already said: the trade-in-value toward an EPIC (whenever that is).

All that said, I still get more work with a PanaUltimate setup than most RED owners in LA. That's sayin' something for Adapters.

Although, the Log and Capture Plug-In for RED is quite yum.

It's good to have the best of all worlds at j00 fingertips. =T Now if I could just be half-decent at the stuff that matters. The Good thing about RED is that it exposes horrible lighting quite quickly.
 
TimurCivan said:
yea but isnt an epic like 40,000$?

its a different classof camera... how much will it effect RED 2nd hand prices? thats like saying the HPX3000 is going to effect the HPX500 used market....
Click to expand...

I just think that the dollar-for-dollar trade-in value that Red is offering will keep the second-hand Red prices solid for a while yet--even though there are used cameras with prices below the cost of a new one (remember only a few months ago, a used Red went for MORE than the price of a new one because of the backlog). My prediction is simply that once everyone who wants an Epic has bought one, the Red price will come down. I love our Red. But I know, without a doubt, lighter versions of the camera are going to come from Red and other manufacturers, and soon.
 
Cause there is no burnt in contrasts or "Cinelooks". You have to make it look good in the lighting to get the most out of the image.
 
Here are some shots from a rehearsal on the RED last week for a feature I'm shooting.

The older guy is Clem Casterta also known as Jimmy Whispers from "A Bronx Tale" among many other roles.
Clem11.jpg


Clem08.jpg


Clem02.jpg


Clem06.jpg


Clem03.jpg
 
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I just got done working on a feature in which the RED was used.

There are a lot of positives, but there are some pretty bad issues as well.
Countless takes were lost because of the cards running out of space at the wrong moment.

Horrible high pitched whine from the onboard monitor.

And in all honesty, while i can appreciate the raw format allowing for tons of tweaking
later, color grading, reframing..etc, the image just doesnt look cinematic to my eyes.

Its crystal freaking clear, but a varicam or f900 just looks more appealing to me.

For reference, we used the nikon mount on the red, but the DP had to be let go after the first week, and the replacement used ziess primes and the "red" zoom lens.

Dont get me wrong, im not totally dissin the camera, i just think in my honest opinion
its just not quite "there" yet.

(didnt even mess with audio to cam, threw a wireless comtek on it for reference
but recorded double system)
 
The high pitched whine means its the old audio board. There was a problem with phantom power on it. For a feature you definitely want to use a RED drive if the takes are long but now the 16 gig cards are coming out also.
I don't feel like you dissed at all. Its like 35mm adapters, you have to use the camera enough to know what you want out of it and do all the research that comes with something thats new in the market. When 35mm adapters first came out there were a lot of growing pains which still happen. Since this camera is still in "Beta" and they enable new features with every build there will be much more growing pains but it has gotten much better from what I have heard. I haven't seen the image projected yet so I can't tell you how I feel about the look of it yet but a friend has a 2k projector and mini theater in his house that we plan to use for tests. We have the Nikon mount on for now until we pick up some lomos or something. It sounded like they let the DP go because of his lens choice from how you said it. Was that the case? Plenty of people are doing some kick ass work with Nikon mounted lenses.

Rippie said:
I just got done working on a feature in which the RED was used.

There are a lot of positives, but there are some pretty bad issues as well.
Countless takes were lost because of the cards running out of space at the wrong moment.

Horrible high pitched whine from the onboard monitor.

And in all honesty, while i can appreciate the raw format allowing for tons of tweaking
later, color grading, reframing..etc, the image just doesnt look cinematic to my eyes.

Its crystal freaking clear, but a varicam or f900 just looks more appealing to me.

For reference, we used the nikon mount on the red, but the DP had to be let go after the first week, and the replacement used ziess primes and the "red" zoom lens.

Dont get me wrong, im not totally dissin the camera, i just think in my honest opinion
its just not quite "there" yet.

(didnt even mess with audio to cam, threw a wireless comtek on it for reference
but recorded double system)
Click to expand...
 
The high pitch whine is 100% the optional RED LCD monitor.
The 1st DP we had would work with us (sound dept) and unplug it when
we were in small quarters, or close to talent. The 2nd wouldnt :(

The first DP was a nice guy, the director just felt he needed to go a different way. The lenses had no part in it.

The 2nd DP had his own zeiss film lenses and understandably wanted to use
them. The company who owns the 2 red's we used own both mounts so
there wasnt a real issue.

On the sound side I wouldnt trust the audio recorded to the cam from
the things I've found out. Which is fine because even if it was ok it would still
be inferior to my 788T. I decided to totally treat the film as if it was a 35mm job
and use a smart slate, because of the timecode issues with the red as well.

It will be interesting to see the final image as the 2nd DP is known for being a
color correction genius (or something like that). He actually brought an entire
system out and after each scene would correct a frame to know where he stood with things throughout.





Beat Takeshi said:
The high pitched whine means its the old audio board. There was a problem with phantom power on it. For a feature you definitely want to use a RED drive if the takes are long but now the 16 gig cards are coming out also.
I don't feel like you dissed at all. Its like 35mm adapters, you have to use the camera enough to know what you want out of it and do all the research that comes with something thats new in the market. When 35mm adapters first came out there were a lot of growing pains which still happen. Since this camera is still in "Beta" and they enable new features with every build there will be much more growing pains but it has gotten much better from what I have heard. I haven't seen the image projected yet so I can't tell you how I feel about the look of it yet but a friend has a 2k projector and mini theater in his house that we plan to use for tests. We have the Nikon mount on for now until we pick up some lomos or something. It sounded like they let the DP go because of his lens choice from how you said it. Was that the case? Plenty of people are doing some kick ass work with Nikon mounted lenses.
Click to expand...
 
Heck, I wish I could get a RED. But I'm just trying to at least get an EX1 and SGBlade. If the EX1 can be cut with the RED - and big time researchers have said so. I'd rather go EX/Blade and have a little more money for lighting. At least right now, until I get $1 Mill for a movie. :-) then i'll be RED or EPIC all the way!
 
Rippie said:
The high pitch whine is 100% the optional RED LCD monitor.
The 1st DP we had would work with us (sound dept) and unplug it when
we were in small quarters, or close to talent. The 2nd wouldnt :(

The first DP was a nice guy, the director just felt he needed to go a different way. The lenses had no part in it.

The 2nd DP had his own zeiss film lenses and understandably wanted to use
them. The company who owns the 2 red's we used own both mounts so
there wasnt a real issue.

On the sound side I wouldnt trust the audio recorded to the cam from
the things I've found out. Which is fine because even if it was ok it would still
be inferior to my 788T. I decided to totally treat the film as if it was a 35mm job
and use a smart slate, because of the timecode issues with the red as well.

It will be interesting to see the final image as the 2nd DP is known for being a
color correction genius (or something like that). He actually brought an entire
system out and after each scene would correct a frame to know where he stood with things throughout.
Click to expand...

There was time to pull out something to CC on for each scene? Must have been a really tight produced schedule with a lot of time worked in there.
The LCD creating the noise is a new one for me. I know all the old boards have a hum/hiss problem and the audio was unusable. Our camera has the new board and there hasn't been any problems. They just started swapping out the boards last week for the old cameras I think.
That must have sucked to get fired a week into the shoot. Wonder why it took a week to figure that out and if his style was that off then what happens to the first weeks worth of footage?
 
the high pitch sound from the monitor is not something that is bleeding
into the audio tracks electronicly.
Its an audible noise you hear in the room, hence gets into the microphones.
It is NOT subtle in a quiet environment.

He would pull out 1 frame per scene. Not the footage itself. He was ball parking
the color correction each time to make sure he was getting exactly what he needed for later.

Beat Takeshi said:
There was time to pull out something to CC on for each scene? Must have been a really tight produced schedule with a lot of time worked in there.
The LCD creating the noise is a new one for me. I know all the old boards have a hum/hiss problem and the audio was unusable. Our camera has the new board and there hasn't been any problems. They just started swapping out the boards last week for the old cameras I think.
That must have sucked to get fired a week into the shoot. Wonder why it took a week to figure that out and if his style was that off then what happens to the first weeks worth of footage?
Click to expand...
 
Ah, don't know. Might have been a bad ground somewhere on that camera. The fans make a slight noise that can be heard if its really quiet.
We planned on doing quick edits as we shot on a feature but time was against us and we never got a chance to even open the laptop. I wonder if the director or producers were stressed waiting each time for him to do that if it started to bleed into production time too much.
 
its a known issue with ALL red on board LCD's.
Also we had 2 seperate red cams..both with those monitors...both the same high pitch noise.
Terrible design.
Least the owner realizes the issue, and knows he is going to continue to have complaints from sound so he might be getting another brand LCD.

The fan's shut down completely (almost complete at least) when you roll..so thats a plus..
bad thing is the fans are SO loud when you're not rolling, sound doesnt hear
the subtle issues with the room until its too late.

Plus, if you need roomtone or wild lines after the scene is done..the camera has to roll or be shut down in order to get the same roomtone as during the scene.
 
We have the LCD with the metal casing. Maybe they fixed the issue with this version. Even though our number is low we only took delivery a few weeks ago. I have used the LCD on everything with the EVF and have not have had any issues at all. I can see where the room tone would be a ***** to get with the RED at idle cause yeah, the fans are loud when not recording.
 
filthrich said:
I wish I had 50 grand in disposable income lying aroud.
Click to expand...

My order has come out to:

25,000 Cam system (includes 3 CF cards / no disk drives)
1,000 Birger EOS Mount
4,000 Canon Prime Lenses

So $30,000 can get you going if you are willing to swap cards a lot. As an additional benefit I will be able to use my Cartoni head and sticks as I'm not going to load up the cam with a disk drive or battery. I also purchased a battery belt clip to relocate the battery to one of the tripod legs.

In addition to this I am bnuilding a massive file server (~14 TB) and a conforming process that will run on multiple Mac Pros. (If I can get it running to my satisfaction I may offer it as a service.) Add this file server and a $6000 Mac Pro does get me up to the $50K mark.

As far as Epic is concerned, right now the top film printing process is 4K (I think), and most films are printed at 2K. Epic will record a raw waveform at 5K which will almost immediately be scaled down to 4K, so the only real benefit will be additional clarity. I'd think the Red One would be fine for any 35mm print, 2K or 4K, but if you want to print to 70mm you might have a choice between Epic or film (of course).

Bob
 
Thats about what we spent with yeah, 3 cards. The list is so long though with all the other things we want to get it looks like the spending will never end.
I would love to see that server. :) Sounds like a monster.
 
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