So I have about $500 to spend...

richke

richke

Well-known member
So I was thinking about getting a new camera. But I figured i'm a rookie and small time and instead of getting a better camera and still having an on board mic, I thought I should keep my camera and get "better" sound.(Plus my roof needs fixed and my wife said no :) )

So I checked out the above thread about what I wanted and needed "Newbs Thread" essentially and decided I think the $400 one should work. I know I could search for these items but I was curious to know if you have any online places you prefer?

Also this is going to be really dumb...but does the mic plug directly into the camera or do most of you have some sort of device strapped to the mic op?

Thanks,
Rich
 
richke said:
Also this is going to be really dumb...but does the mic plug directly into the camera or do most of you have some sort of device strapped to the mic op?
Click to expand...

To answer that first, you don't have to depending on what kind of mic and camera you're using. If you only have an 1'8" mic in jack, then there are a few mics that will still plug directly in, like the RODE Videomic
http://www.dvcreators.net/rode-videomic/
Or, if you want to go a bit higher, you can get any other type of microphone you want really, but without XLR inputs on your camera (assuming you don't?) you'd need an adapter which goes from xlr to 1/8" mini, like this
http://www.dvcreators.net/beachtek-xlr-adapters/
Then you'd need cables and such....

richke said:
So I was thinking about getting a new camera. But I figured i'm a rookie and small time and instead of getting a better camera and still having an on board mic, I thought I should keep my camera and get "better" sound.(Plus my roof needs fixed and my wife said no :) )
Click to expand...

Here's what i'd recommend.
Go with something like the videomic mentioned above, get a couple decent filters for your camera, and maybe some cheap lights. That'd be the easiest way to improve your all-around product when shooting... good audio is great, but lights are absolutely paramount if you want your video to start looking professional.
 
My camcorder does have a headphone jack in on it....that would work if I had the converter you mentioned in the second link...right?

Thanks for the input! I already have 3 lights($27 for all three :) ) that really have added a lot to my latest movie. I know once I get the sound down I think I'll look into getting "real" lights instead of what we are using. But we are making it work.


I'll check out those sites.
 
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The ATR-55 is also an option with a 1/8" jack. But if you are looking at spending 500, I would look at the Oktava MK-12, or something like an AT-897, with a good pair of headphones. If you pick one of those mics up used you might havev enough left for a gitzo aluminum boompole.
 
richke said:
My camcorder does have a headphone jack in on it....that would work if I had the converter you mentioned in the second link...right?

Thanks for the input! I already have 3 lights($27 for all three :) ) that really have added a lot to my latest movie. I know once I get the sound down I think I'll look into getting "real" lights instead of what we are using. But we are making it work.


I'll check out those sites.
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Uhhhh - no, a mic cannot be plugged into a headphone output jack and have anything happen (except maybe damage the mic). Ins are ins and outs are outs and never the twain shall meet.

If your camera doesn't have an external mic input jack, you're toast before you start. OIther than the onboard mic, there's nothing you can do without going double system and recording to separate recorder. Then the budget will raise its ugly head - there's not much you can do in that direction for under $500 total.
 
Oh yeah....crap I didn't word that right. :) I know a headphone jack is an out :) - DAMN! :)

I looked on the features page of my camera(Panasonic GS300) and it says it has a mic in....which is probably the same size as a head phone jack(but I didn't know the size so I said that)

Yeah I know my camera is wussy but it's all I could afford.

I guess knowing that I only have a GS300($600) would you advise upgrading to a $2000 camera or get the $500 in sound equip?

I have all the computer editing tools to put everything together.
 
It all depends on what you are trying to accomplish, and what/who you have access to. Do you want to be completely self-sufficient in terms of gear? Eventually you will have to crew a project, so you might consider having only the bare minimum of gear and find crew with their own. If all you are trying to do at the moment is figure out how to get a concept through script, production and delivery, the type of camera you have isn't that important.

But I will say that with audio gear, once you have a general understanding of your needs, buy the best gear you can afford that is appropriate to your situation. There are lots of mics, boompoles, and headphones in the field that have been used for years. They hold their value and usefulness a lot longer than cameras.
 
richke said:
Oh yeah....crap I didn't word that right. :) I know a headphone jack is an out :) - DAMN! :)

I looked on the features page of my camera(Panasonic GS300) and it says it has a mic in....which is probably the same size as a head phone jack(but I didn't know the size so I said that)

Yeah I know my camera is wussy but it's all I could afford.

I guess knowing that I only have a GS300($600) would you advise upgrading to a $2000 camera or get the $500 in sound equip?

I have all the computer editing tools to put everything together.
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Actually my advice would be to kick back for a bit and ponder what you're trying to accomplish and set some priorities. I don't know that there is a generic answer to the question of "should I invest in sound gear or should I invest in an upgraded camera." Ultimately you'll probably do both. What is most mission critical depends on what your objectives are.
 
Well I guess at this point I enjoy shooting short films and I hope they are entertaining to others. But if they aren't really I just want to get something out there. So with what I have I can achieve the part of getting something out there.

But when I watch other films they always have something that I don't have. Quality. In the look of the film(not shots or content) and good sound. Right now I have tweaked my lighting to be able to get rid of the grainyness in badly lit shots and I have made my movies look better from that. But the sound annoys the crap out of me. With what I have(which is nothing) frustrates me because I know the people I make the moves with are just happy to see something finished with them in it...and normally don't notice the volume changes or the amount of echo that is one line but not in the other.

I don't know it's tough to explain. I'd like to get a bigger camera so I don't feel like an idiot doing these short films with an handheld. Then I feel I could actually do shorts with actors/actresses I've never worked with. Because now I feel they will look at my camera and just be like - "Crap what have I gotten myself into." But that's another $2500.

I know right now I can afford $500 with no problems and I know I can't get a camera for that. And I know I need to get some sound equipment just because I think it adds a lot to the film and I have people who want to help out but not be in the films...so i have someone to work the equipment, but am I getting myself into something I will never understand. Sound proofing and whatever....sweet lord I don't know! :)
 
Yeah, then I'd go for the audio gear. Get the best mic and headphones you can. You can really improve your quality with $500 up from nothing. Look at the Oktava, or the AT-897 for mics (personal recommendation in the sub-$300 new category) and a pair of Sony 7506 headphones.

But also try and network locally. Better gear is important, but so is someone who knows how to use it. You'd be surprised how many people are in the same boat you are: they want to make something good, but don't have anyone to work with.
 
so the AT-55 is crap - because I see that has the smaller plug or no? Also I see this only has 3ft of cable...isn't that short? Or can you get an extension or something?

With the AT-897 I'd still need to get the converter from the big plug to the smaller plug right to get rid of static or something?

Thanks for all your help so far...I'm a total rookie when it comes to audio...im sorry :)
 
I kinda got away from this for a bit becuase I didn't have the cash. But I see I asked about a 3 ft cable.

What length should I get?
 
OK I watched Pusuit and I have some specific advice. If most of your films are like this one then you don't have much sync dialog and what there was sounded OK. I'm not sure getting a mic will help all that much. Assuming you want to sound more like a Hollywood film than a home movie/ no budget film I would suggest more sound post work. The best would be to find someone but assuming that isn't a big option right now you can do a lot in any decent NLE.

First the problems. Non on camera voices were not so good, the person on the other end of the phone was near in audible and the ladies on the TV sounded like they were recorded in a very bouncy room. The "score" was too much and too loud. When you didn't have something specific you wanted us to hear you cut out all sound except the score.

The key to the "big film" sound is layers, lots of layers. Your film should sound fine with no score at all, then add the score to help emotional drive. I big mistake a lot of low budget filmmakers make is to slather music all over. Look at a few big budget films. Other than battle scenes and maybe a big moment or two the score is "underscore". It's there but it is NOT the dominant element. Backgrounds: Build some ambience for every scene and have it go through the entire scene. A big sound library helps at this point but you can make yours as you go. As much as possible if we see it we should hear it. This last is subject to a lot of variation but it's a good starting point. If we see someone walk we should HEAR them walk. And finally you could use some noise reduction and EQ on the production AND you probably need to be more careful about the noise level when shooting. There were some hums and buzzes that probably could have been avoided. Also most of the sound that I'm talking about adding needs to be done in post NOT while shooting. You dialog edit will be hell if you have a ton of stuff going on. Now most of this is just work, so no $ out the door. But you you do need to be able to record some sounds since trying to do all of it with commercial libraries is a royal pain, won't fit as well and can get expensive.

So my recommendation is to get one of the small flash recorders. There are quite decent ones in the $250-$350 range. With that you can go and record some nice stereo ambiances. Not nec. where you shot, try to record where it would have taken place. And pick up some sweeteners, like car bys and such. You could also do some pseudo ADR. The ladies for instance, you can't really see their lips so they could have been recorded in a much better sounding space and then just close synced to the original. Also things like the telephone ring and the guy on the other end of the line. You can also do some Wild Foley, like pill bottle movement, stuff getting thrown, TV crashes etc. You could have covered the TV, get some static, channel switching, slaps etc. Once you've filled the track out and done some basic EQ and level adjusting you should be able to listen to the whole film with out feeling your missing anything. NOW add in the underscore. It can come out and takeover on a big moment but there will always be the foundation of the "scene sounds" to keep it part of the film. Also you can use the small recorder as a poor-man's wireless. If you have that huge long shot and you want to hear your actors, plant the recorder on them, hit record and go back and take the shot. You can sync it up, with a bit of work, in post. It will sound a LOT better than ADRing it in a room later and trying to make that sound out doors.

so that's my $.03
 
I think I'm more excited you watched my movie :) But I wish you had watchd "Tanked" instead. Pursuit was the first one I had ever done and I don't think it is my best work. "Tanked" I shot last summer and it contains far more dialog and this would probably be more of what I plan on shooting in the future. In that one you can see all the different problems I had with the audio. Some I could have fixed in Post and others I jsut didn't have a good enough mic or the room was too echoey. But I have no idea how to fix echoes if that is just how the room is. But the guy I've been talking with says he does and that he just wants me to get something more advanced than nothing :)

Thanks for all your input in the last post...you have some good tipe for futurne shoots and hopefully I will be able to apply them. I have a small sound library I have been just getting off the Internet when needed and I thought music was too loud in Pursuit...but if I didn't then it seemed to quiet...but I should've taken out any background noises during the quiet times. Dang! :)
 
I'll check it out. About the only thing you can do for echoey rooms is to put up "sound blankets" (essentially movers blankets at a higher price) and get in close with a hyper cardioid mic. Usually impossible to remove in post though in some cases I have seen good results. Downloaded SFX are often not of very good quality, actually a lot of commercial FX are not so hot either. Sets like Sound Ideas are assuming your going to layer and mix and add ambiance, and are hard to make fit in if you use them straight. Nothing fits as well as stuff you record for your film. But you could do much of the same recordings with a decent mic and your camera, it's just not as convenient and your burning tape.
 
I looked at some sound blankets and I have seen these before. But how is it possible to use them in a shot? I mean tehy stand out like a sore thumb. You wouldn't do every wall would you?
 
Noiz2:

I wanted to correct your quote on your tagline. It's pretty entertaining the way you have it, but it's not how HST had it in his book.

Hunter S. Thompson's book called Generation of Swine: Tales of Shame and Degradation in the '80s (New York: Summit Books, 1988). On page 43, he wrote:
The TV business is uglier than most things. It is normally perceived as some kind of cruel and shallow money trench through the heart of the journalism industry, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs, for no good reason.


​
 
If you use a boom mic and get it as close to your subject as possible it will vastly improve your sound and, then, since you won't have to record so hot you won't pick up as much room tone.

Check out Juicelink http://www.juicedlink.com/index.htm
 
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richke said:
I looked at some sound blankets and I have seen these before. But how is it possible to use them in a shot? I mean tehy stand out like a sore thumb. You wouldn't do every wall would you?
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You hang them out side of the shot. What your trying to do is breakup the reflections. So if your in a hard surface room and your shooting in one corner the best would be to hang them on stands like a curtain enclosing the shooting space. That will kill a lot of the echo. Getting close will help also but you need to be doing that anyway.
 
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