Stock Market burning down!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Thomas Nogales is pretty good at market prediction. He's out of stocks and bonds and into gold right now. Anything else is risky.

http://www.thomasnogales.com/

From his October report:

"I've called the first phase of this process The Big Markdown where asset prices drop in price. We're only part way through it. Phase two will usher in massive bond defaults and job losses. Phase three will include a currency collapse when the dollar is dropped as the world reserve currency. In phase one, asset prices fall. In phase two institutional promises to pay debts like pensions, annuities and bond insurance fail. In phase three the currency fails and systemic economic failure occurs and most probably amid very high inflation. Phase three could be avoided if there was international cooperation on debt rescheduling and America made a national commitment to financial solvency. Failure is not inevitable if internal forces were properly directed and external forces were cooperative. I doubt we'll see the optimistic scenario. That's because the oil depletion crisis will arrive at about the same time and stress economies across the globe (with some notable exceptions).
I think we're facing many years of negative interest rates. This is a condition where the rate of inflation exceeds the rate earned on treasury bills. Thus, holding cash will be a losing game. Gold will move up with inflation and will move dramatically upward as the dollar weakens. The only other asset likely to match or exceed gold's rise will be oil. We're probably near or past the point of maximum world oil production or will be within a few years.
As investors, our primary issue is to contemplate the consequences and decide what must we do now. Let me first make a statement so you know where I stand.
I firmly believe that most investors reading this eletter will be essentially broke within ten years. Your money will be lost to inflation, a dollar decline and a series of failed defensive asset repositioning's that won't protect your savings.
Each phase of our national insolvency has a particular course of action to follow and missing the transition points will quickly erode asset values. That's why very few will survive with meaningful liquid assets intact.
I'll offer my opinion on what to do but with the caveat that I could be wrong and possibly very wrong. You should and must countercheck anything I say against the opinion of a competent professional and consider all sides of the arguments carefully. I don't have psychic powers or an all knowing ability to predict the financial markets. At turning points, I've been right or lucky so far but may be wrong next time. With that in mind, let's go."

Definately riveting stuff. He predicts a difficult decline because of being past 'peak oil' reserves and with the world running out of oil, energy costs, which directly affect profit and economic health of an economy, will skyrocket. It's going to be an interesting winter.. Excuse me while I write out the check for $8,000 for this year's heating oil..
 
But gold is only good if people want it. If you're starving, gold is just a pretty piece of metal. It only has value because people gave it value.

If you're in desperate straits and have to sell your gold, then it's a buyer's market.

Then again, I'm no expert. Personally, I'd rather have a basement stocked with provisions any day.
 
Cmon folks...

society isnt going to break down.... Dont be dramatic. even during the great depression, society didint break down...
 
Cmon folks...

society isnt going to break down.... Dont be dramatic. even during the great depression, society didint break down...

so you aren't predicting that america becomes a post apocalyptic wasteland resembling a mad max movie? please don't tell me i've wasted the past 3 days welding all those spikes to my toyota camry for nothing.
 
I already welded them on my car years ago... not for the apocalypse, but for sport..... NYC driving can be harrowing!
 
exactly we're too lazy to riot.... ;)

It seems implausible but I was living in South LA in April 1992 and I experienced first hand the shattering of the veneer of civilization. LA burned for 3 days, several friends of mine were shot and the government couldn't do a thing.

Some of you might think it's a joke, when my friend got shot in the throat and military tanks were rolling up Century Blvd it didn't seem too funny.
 
It seems implausible but I was living in South LA in April 1992 and I experienced first hand the shattering of the veneer of civilization. LA burned for 3 days, several friends of mine were shot and the government couldn't do a thing.

Some of you might think it's a joke, when my friend got shot in the throat and military tanks were rolling up Century Blvd it didn't seem too funny.

You're right, Brian. It's not funny. I hope your friend survived and is doing well now.

Your point is well taken. We believe everything's going to be fine because it always has been. But it's amazing how little it takes to tear society apart.
 
A war would be catastrophic, because, let's say Iran attacks Israel with a nuke, destroying Tel Aviv, and then Israel obliterates Iran and surrounding area, then Russia steps in, then the US, then China. Coastal US cities may be destroyed in the ensuing maelstrom. That's the WWIII scenario.

Now if oil becomes too scarces in the next five years, with a doubling of price every year from 2008 onward, mass disruption to the world economy would result. It's not enough that the people running our government seem hell-bent on destroying America, but with the added turmoil of a fiat currency that's at the whim of a fickle and unpredictable Fed, excascerbating and amplifying the problems with the oil economy, we're in for some unique times in our generation. '29 was nuttin'.

Like eveyrthing else that happens in an eroding civilization though, the really bad stuff happens in pockets--usually a few individuals--and when they tell their story, no one believes it because it's too incredulous. But when things reach the tipping point, large numbers will find themselves face to face with the monster and it will be too late to take corrective action. It's all damage control and raw survival from then on.

I'm kinda' hoping the world will end in the manner it did in Atlas Shrugged, with everyone going on strike and the idiots in government finally have to give up because there's no one left to do their bidding. And then a rational leader can step in and start over from scratch. Unlikely to happen in this reality, but I can dream, can't I? ;)
 
You guys do realize there will be a big buy back right? This is a dump of stock... there is a bottom and there will be INSANE gains to be made. Just get ready to jump in when you see it go up a few days in a row... don't be late! There is no way that the bad mortgages and bundled re-sold empty papers make up this much of the worth of all these companies. The only fear is if the credit crunch goes to ****...

FYI, I am broke not a broker... and haven't been following this. But Economics is Economics... if the credit flow doesn't kill us there will be insane gains to be made. The question is whe are ge getting out confidence back... my opinion is shortly after the election...
 
You guys do realize there will be a big buy back right? This is a dump of stock... there is a bottom and there will be INSANE gains to be made. Just get ready to jump in when you see it go up a few days in a row... don't be late! ...

I know some people that are buying right now. AT&T and Google are two stocks to look at right now. GM shares are the lowest they've been since the 1950's.
check out these Bloomberg Headlines. Very telling.

•Stocks, U.S. Futures Sink; MSCI World Index Set for Worst Week Since 1970

•Morgan Stanley's Rating May Be Cut by Moody's; Goldman Outlook Is Negative

•Oil Set for Biggest Weekly Drop Since 2004 as Copper, Commodities Tumble

•Severstal to Cut Steel Production in Russia, Europe, U.S., Review Forecast

•Corporate Bond Risk Soars to Record as Turmoil Triggers Default Concern

•Netherlands Will Make $27.2 Billion Available to `Sound' Financial Firms

•Yamato Life Files for Bankruptcy, First Industry Collapse in Seven Years

•EU Crippled in Crisis as 27 Governments Confront a Single Hobbled Economy
 
Last edited:
According to the Maya calender the world will go belly up at Dec 21 2012 - so why worry?

....hmmm, so this will sure ruin my x-mas that year.

Frank



Frank
 
Just jumped in but I'd take the Gov. on for a few trades in the market....

Errrr Ummm, sorry for jumpin in so late (Ha!) now is the time to buy everything. TODAY! Stop talking about it and buy, buy, buy...

You guy's owe me more than 2 cents :)
 
Last edited:
You guys do realize there will be a big buy back right? This is a dump of stock... there is a bottom and there will be INSANE gains to be made. Just get ready to jump in when you see it go up a few days in a row... don't be late! There is no way that the bad mortgages and bundled re-sold empty papers make up this much of the worth of all these companies. The only fear is if the credit crunch goes to shi*...

FYI, I am broke not a broker... and haven't been following this. But Economics is Economics... if the credit flow doesn't kill us there will be insane gains to be made. The question is whe are ge getting out confidence back... my opinion is shortly after the election...

I think that's the big concern, though -- that the credit situation will stay in gridlock because lending institutions have over-extended themselves, essentially loaning out more money than they have assets to cover. Everything and everyone in our economy is SO dependent on credit that if the credit market crumbles, everything goes.
 
Yes, thankfully a de-regulated capitalistic economy also adjusts fast.

In a sense the freaked out media might be helping a bit, despite the obvious effect on Wall Street, by making people react now by not spending on what they don't need to spend on. Then as people buy less, companies offer less = everyone need to borrow less.

You accept reality and start working just as hard from there on. Harder hopefully to get the train going again as soon as possible. Now if we continued as if nothing were happening then that would suck, but that's not happening. And if the faucet runs completely dry at any point it time, then you do end up lower than the actual value. That blows... that's like being a college kid messing up on your first credit card, irresponsible. But you dust yourself off, and start all over again. Thankfully we are in the US guys... breath. It is OK. But let's try to save some cash now... and if you really want to help:

BUY AMERICAN! :thumbsup:
 
Alright, society won't crumble.

Loans will be hard to get - sorry college kids. (myself included)

The buyback won't be huge. But it will be there. GM is not promising. Google is at 300 plus. Limited shares to buy there. GM is closing factories left and right and their trend graph has been down for two years.

Watch the daily gains of companies. Look for large volume selloffs. And then buy into those companies. Look around. The big thing is looking for the large volume selloffs. Which signifies a company is oversold which will bounce back.

Society won't fall apart entirely. People will just be very hard pressed for cash.
 
My Mom was born in 1910 and was too young to understand the start of "The Great World War", but from her parents, she told me about the gloom and fear people had about a war, unlike any other war, but we made it through.

By the time of the Stock Market Crash of 1929 and the start of the Great Depression, she was 19 years old and she remembered the gloom and fear that people had, but we made it through.

With the rise of Hitler and the Start of WW II, there was gloom and fear again, but we made it through.

In 1957 when the USSR launched Sputnik I, there was gloom and fear that the Russians could drop Nuclear Bombs on us from space, but we made it through.

I was old enough to remember the Cuban Missile crises and the gloom and fear, but we made it through.

In fact there was a lot of gloom and fear of a Nuclear War in the 60s, 70s and 80s, but we made it through.

Then again, let's not forget the gloom and fear of the 70s with the shocking rise in oil prices and the sudden reduction in supply, but we made it through.

More gloom and fear came from Y2K BUG and the Hole In The Ozone Layer, but we made it through.




So, nothing ever changes, more gloom and fear that we've run out of oil. Except for the fact that as oil runs out, other more expensive sources of energy start to look really good. The USA's supply of coal is very large and breakthroughs in Photovoltaic power are driving the cost down. (Try doing a search on "Nanosolar $1 a watt now shipping")


Are we heading for a Great Depression? Maybe yes, maybe no, but even if we are, given enough time, the market turns around.



Let's be reasonable about this, bad things DO happen and we do suffer, but we make it through.... So if tomorrow is a good day or a bad day, we just do what we can.


Bob Diaz
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top