Using Mic In on Laptop from Mixer

[f64manray]

I'd suggest a pair of inline attenuators to drop the signal down to mic level rather than counting on using the faders to keep levels under control but it should work. Isn't that a bit of overkill for the sound accompanying the movie mode of what is essentially a still camera? If you're looking to interface an external mic for better sound quality, how about something like the AT822 that's built for unbalanced stereo inputs from the git'go?

Thanks, the AT822 looks like a great solo mic to plug into the 5D, but my plan was to record some live performances of a singer songwriter in a bit more of a controlled fashion. I was thinking of using a 1402 VLZ Mackie and taking the unbalanced input (mic/pick up) of the guitar as well possibly a room mic and a mic (AT4050 or two crown small condensors) on guitar, a vocal mic (Shure KSM44 or Crown CM311) into the Mackie 1402, mix to the tape outs, and to mini jack "in" on the 5D. These mics of course need phantom power. The 1402 will also allow a bit of Reverb and any other processing.

This is basically a video for web promotion purposes. I was planning on recording audio that way and using the modeling lights in my studio strobe soft boxes to do the lighting.

I plan on getting some shotgun mics later. Are they very sensitive from 6-10 feet away from the sound source? I'm not quite sure what to expect from them as far as gain.

 

[Steve House]

Thanks, the AT822 looks like a great solo mic to plug into the 5D, but my plan was to record some live performances of a singer songwriter in a bit more of a controlled fashion. I was thinking of using a 1402 VLZ Mackie and taking the unbalanced input (mic/pick up) of the guitar as well possibly a room mic and a mic (AT4050 or two crown small condensors) on guitar, a vocal mic (Shure KSM44 or Crown CM311) into the Mackie 1402, mix to the tape outs, and to mini jack "in" on the 5D. These mics of course need phantom power. The 1402 will also allow a bit of Reverb and any other processing.

This is basically a video for web promotion purposes. I was planning on recording audio that way and using the modeling lights in my studio strobe soft boxes to do the lighting.

I plan on getting some shotgun mics later. Are they very sensitive from 6-10 feet away from the sound source? I'm not quite sure what to expect from them as far as gain.

A couple of points. I've looked at the prelim info on the new Canon 5d - "Reverie" is a truly remarkable piece of work - and it looks really ground-breaking. But I don't think I'd consider the external mic port as a viable route for recording high-quality sound. I just can't believe that a SLR will ever have more than marginal sound recording specs. It's hard enough to find real video camcorders with truly high quality audio. Go with an external recorder instead.

Nothing wrong with the idea of using your Mackie mixer in the arrangement you mention. But DO NOT even THINK about adding reverb or other FX during recording. Maybe a slight amount of equalization and/or compression should the circumstances require it but beyond that save any processing for post-production. The objective for the location original is to get as pristine a collection of dry tracks as you can so you'll have the raw material to work with in post. Add reverb in post and decide you don't like it, you can take it right back out. Add reverb when recording on location and you decide later that it doesn't work quite right, you're stuck with it.

It is an myth that shotgun mics are like telephoto lenses for audio - They DO NOT have any built-in gain themselves whatsoever. What they do have is a decreased sensitivity to off-axis sounds - since the distracting ambience is reduced you can increase the distance the mic is placed from the desired source and compensate for the fall-off in output by running the recording gain a little higher. But "increased distance" is relative and doesn't even come close to being 6 to 10 feet. A working distance of 3 feet instead of 18 inches is a more realistic number for short shotguns. Long 'guns can work out to about 6 feet or so but 10 feet is getting too far even for them (and they're usually pretty pricey). Another issue with shotguns is the acoustic principle they use to achieve their directivity comes at a price. The directivity is highly frequency dependent. When the subject's voice reflects off of the envirnoment and hits the mic it's not equally surpressed at all frequencies and inside the mic tube it interacts with the direct sound arriving from on-axis with potentially ugly results. The best way I can describe the result is as distant and accompanied by a ringing effect like you were recording in a metal culvert. As a result, unless you're in a space such as a soundstage where reflections have been conditioned out, shotguns are not usually a good choice for interior dialog. Hypercardioids are much more often used for location work in real interiors like residences, offices, small clubs, etc, with the shotguns generally reserved for wider shots in exteriors and similar non-reflective environments.

 

[f64manray]

Thanks, Steve. that info was really helpful, especially the shotgun info. I have a couple of Shure beta 87's that are hypercardioid, but I've never tried them at any significant distance from the sound source. I'll have to experiment. I'm thinking a hotter condesor would be better with the hypercardioid pattern, though.

 

[Steve House]

Thanks, Steve. that info was really helpful, especially the shotgun info. I have a couple of Shure beta 87's that are hypercardioid, but I've never tried them at any significant distance from the sound source. I'll have to experiment. I'm thinking a hotter condesor would be better with the hypercardioid pattern, though.

I would agree at a hotter condensor mic - I don't know anything about the Beta's so can't comment one way or the other other than to say I understand they are basically stage vocal mics that are usually worked very close to the talent. The goto mic in the film world is the Schoeps CMC641. Other frequent choices are Senn MKH50, AT4053a, AKG 480/CK63 or SE300/CK93. For a bargain mic a lot of folks here swear by the Oktava M012

 

[rszebras]

I've been using the method of mixer to the line in on my Dell for a couple months now, but I'm considering upgrading. There is some noise (hiss) in the recordings that I'd like to eliminate without having to remove it in post. It's not bad, but I'd like to get a cleaner signal. So I have a couple questions as I look at purchasing a firewire or usb audio interface.

One of the problems I've experiened with coming out of the mixer is that if a sound guy adjusts the levels on the mixer in the middle of my presentation that's how it's recorded. And when I ask them not to adjust levels -- well, some people like playing with knobs, I guess. Anyway, I was thinking about trying to avoid that altogether by going directly from mic to interface to computer.

My idea is to purchase an xlr y-cable, run the mic to the y-cable, one end of the y to an audio interface and my computer, the other end of the y to the patch panel that goes to the mixer. The mics we are using are Shure SM58 dynamics so there's no issue with phantom power. So, can I split the mic xlr cable without any issues?

Second, I'm looking at a couple audio interfaces. The cheapest is the MXL Mic Mate that someone previously suggested. They have a new version developed just for dynamic mics, as the phantom powered version apparently didn't have enough gain for dynamics. I spoke to a tech at MXL who explained the importance of getting the dynamic version for dynamic mics. It's a relatively inexpensive option. The sound on the original Mic Mate seems to be good from numerous reviews. And it's really small!

The other one I'm looking at is the Presonus Inspire 1394 firewire interface. It is definitely bigger. But I suspect it has better electronics and will therefore produce better results. It would also provide more options, in that I could use it for line level recording out of the mixer as well. Plus it has phantom power -- for use in the future.

Any input would be greatly appreciated. Especially if Steve House sees this post!

 

[Steve House]

It's really hard to answer you with any specifics as I don't know anything about the MXL you're looking at or the details about the other equipment in the chain. I would suggest avoiding a simple "Y" adapter as that means you'd be taking the already low signal from the dynamic mics and further reducing it by dividing it between two inputs.

Take a close look at the FOH mixer you've been taking your feed from. Perhaps it has auxillary busses where you can grab your feed BEFORE the FOH guy has a chance to monkey with the levels. Ideally I'd hope for an Aux bus or two - on my Mackie 1642 I've got 4 Aux bus sends on each channel that come out pre-fader, pre-equalizer. Taking your output to your camera, recorder, or laptop from such a bus allows you to grab the signal and set its level independently of what the individual channel faders or pans or the main output levels are set to. Your FOH guy can play with the faders and outputs all he wants and unless he messes with the send master levels (and there's no reason he needs to touch 'em as they don't affect anything he's doing anyway) nothing he does will affect you.

Presonus is a good name but I don't have any direct experience with the Inspire. I use Echo Audio's AudioFire 8 and 12 and really like 'em. They also have 2 and 4 channel models. If you're looking for an interface for your laptop you might also take a look at Sound Devices' USB interrface.

 

[rszebras]

I guess I was intuitively concerned about using the y adaptor, although I didn't know for a fact that it would reduce the signal. That wouldn't be good. I did check the Mackie user manual and the mixer has six aux send buses. These are balanced 1/4" TRS jacks that are also wired to accomodate unbalanced 1/4" TS connections. The manual also says the nominal line level at the AUX SEND jacks is 0dBu.

In view of the signal reduction using a y adaptor, the MXL Mic Mate Dynamic is out. The Presonus Inspire 1394 does accept line level signals to rca jacks on the back. I suppose, then, I could use a 1/4" TRS to RCA jacks to go out of the aux send bus and into the audio interface and then into the computer? Or I could look for another audio interface that accepts balanced 1/4" TRS jacks. Or I need someone who can slap the hand of anyone who messes with the levels after I do a soundcheck.

 

[Steve House]

I guess I was intuitively concerned about using the y adaptor, although I didn't know for a fact that it would reduce the signal. That wouldn't be good. I did check the Mackie user manual and the mixer has six aux send buses. These are balanced 1/4" TRS jacks that are also wired to accomodate unbalanced 1/4" TS connections. The manual also says the nominal line level at the AUX SEND jacks is 0dBu.

In view of the signal reduction using a y adaptor, the MXL Mic Mate Dynamic is out. The Presonus Inspire 1394 does accept line level signals to rca jacks on the back. I suppose, then, I could use a 1/4" TRS to RCA jacks to go out of the aux send bus and into the audio interface and then into the computer? Or I could look for another audio interface that accepts balanced 1/4" TRS jacks. Or I need someone who can slap the hand of anyone who messes with the levels after I do a soundcheck.

There's a gajillion audio interfaces out there that accept mic and line inputs and connect to the computer either through USB or Firewire. My reading of the specs on the Inspire is that its "line level" RCAs would be the -10dBv "consumer" line level, not the +4dBu "pro" line level. I'm not sure I'd go with it as it seems pretty limited but its bigger brother, the Firebox, looks like it would be quite servicable. I'd certainly make having proper balanced line level inputs, preferrably selectable between -10 and +4 sensitivity, one of my priorities. As I mentioned, I've had good results with Echo Audio's AudioFires. http://echoaudio.com/ If all you need is line level inputs the AudioFire 2 would get you going or the AudioFire 4 adds a couple of mic inputs as well. I can attest to the fact that the Mackie Aux busses work just fine with the AudioFire's line inputs and outputs as I've used mine that way. In fact, my regular monitor setup takes the Echo's line outs 11 and 12 as a stereo pair and sends them into the Mackie desk through its stereo Aux Return 4, which in turn is then routed to the Mackie control room outs and on to my speakers. And I've recorded using the Aux sends from the Mackie into the Echo's line inputs with no problems at all.

 

[rszebras]

Hey Steve. Thanks for the input. Sorry I'm just now getting around to responding. I've been loaded at work. Anyway, I decided not to go with the Presonus Inspire because of the consumer level line in. I'm researching my options right now: Audiofire 2 and 4, Presonus Firebox, along with a few others. Thanks for the help, Steve.