Records Labels and Music Videos/DVD's

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Stussey

Member
I'm trying to keep doing video full time. Unlike most of my friends, I prefer to do music videos. I just don't know the best way to go about attracting labels to my services. I've talked to a few bands on labels, but their labels aren't too enthusiastic about doing music videos since there are so few places to show them and get their return on them. This doesn't look good for someone who wants to do music videos.

I know there's work out there, and I'm good enough to make money at it. Besides music videos, I am also interested in doing DVD's, that I know they make a return on.

I just want to find out about the best way to approach getting in with record labels/management to where I'm not cold calling them.

any ideas are always appreciated,
Stussey
 
hehe

hehe

Hey if you find an answer to that one, let me know.

I think I'm quite good enough at doing music videos to get at least the low budget paying work, but I'm not sure how to go about that either. What I'm going to do next, when I get this next video done, is send out three music videos on a DVD to as many production companies who rep music video directors as possible along with sending to some record labels for consideration. No idea what the success will be with that, but it can't hurt much to try.

I know people getting music video work, so I know it's out there. I mean I directly know several directors who have gotten between $7,000 and $60,000 for record label videos, and I don't think they're way more capable directors than I am at it. They both do nice work, but I'm certainly right there. I think it's just a matter of making the right connections and getting your work seen by the right people.

I'm not expecting to get work for big name artists or major labels, but I think there has to be $10,000 video work out there I could do.
 
Stussey said:
their labels aren't too enthusiastic about doing music videos since there are so few places to show them and get their return on them.
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Hmmm....you might want to tell these labels about this new invention called the internet.....a place where fans can watch their favorite band's videos on demand w/o commercial interuption. Crazy concept, huh?

I think Jonathan hit on some nice points, so I'll just leave it at that. :beer: I like doing the lower budget music videos as well.
 
That's the question at hand. How do you get the right connections? I have some names, and I've introduced myself and let them know what I do. But, that's because I know a band on their label. I know you'll say, do a video for that band. It has been discussed, and that's where the label said that they're not going to put money into a video, especially a band that's not established.

I am willing to work with any budget, just as long as I have one. Most of the local bands in this area are too lazy or slack enough to do a video. My experience is if they do shoot a video, one of the band members quits or they break up, so they don't promote it. It's harder when it's a small budget when that happens.

That's why I want to get in with labels/management companies. A little more stability, or at least a little more money. I was reading the how to start a business post, but I don't think that really work in the music world. Nowadays, labels don't even want bands to send press kits in, just their myspace link. So I don't think sending them and unsolicited or wanted demo is going to get me in the door. I'm just looking for ways in.
 
Well the best way to become a working music video director is still to get your reel in the hands of production companies who represent directors and do work with labels. They can certainly at least get you bidding on some videos, i.e. sending concepts in. I'm not saying it's easy, but because of the massively smaller budgets the labels are offering, the playing field is a lot more open than it has been in the past. They cannot afford to be that picky if they're not going to pay. You can't say, "Gee, yeah, we have a $12,000 budget for this video, we need an A-list director." Good luck, idiots, commercials are paying $200,000 budgets easily. If you pay $12,000, you get a good indie director who hasn't done much, that's about it. You have to pay real money to get high level directors, and they know that. Plus with a budget of $12,000 the director won't make anything, basically. If a label gave me that budget and told me to make something, they didn't really care how I spent the money they just wanted a great video, I would probably spend just about all of it on the video and not keep anything for myself. I don't really care, it'd be better to have a stronger video than to have $1,500, which isn't going to make much difference in my life, not for the 3 weeks I'd pour into the video. I would probably give my time free and charge them for use of my equipment or something. The point is they need directors like me willing to do work on low budgets and not make much money just to build a better reel and more connections. And they'll find more directors like me. But what they can't afford is real working directors who have better offers. Those directors aren't interested in working with some band nobody has heard of just because the label is cheap and doesn't want to spend money on promoting their new act. In comes directors like us, who are eager for opportunities and excited to do work even with their lousy budgets and low pay.

The reason I know it works this way is not just from reading a lot of articles about it, but with my last production company I co-owned, we were recruiting directors ourselves with various degrees of experience, and everyone said exactly the same thing. One guy did some great work, I really enjoyed it, fantastic reel, but he was working in the $10,000 budget range for music videos, which at the time I thought was pretty sweet. He laughed at me when I was describing making money on videos like that. He said, "See, you see music videos as a way you might make money. It's just a hobby to me. There's no money in these videos." He was looking to move up to the $25,000 range where he could at least make a little bit of money. Then another director we had, a girl, she did a few great videos I saw and she would edit her own videos, not because she was such a great editor or a control freak or something, but because if she didn't edit them she couldn't make any money on the projects. In other words, if the amount left over for editing and directing is $1,000, and you'd have to pay an editor like $700 to do the work, uhh, you're going to make $300 for like two weeks of hard work. So she'd just edit herself so she could make a little bit of cash at least. To my knowledge she had done two record label videos, one $7,000 and one $12,000, so she was moving up a bit anyway.

These people are ahead of me, obviously, I think I'm doing good work but right now any record label video no matter the budget would be a break for me. I'm not holding my breathe because I am not pursuing music videos for money, but I'll at least throw my hat into the ring and see what happens. I'm willing to do music videos without making money in the future, so long as I have a budget. It'd be fun to shoot a few music videos a year, maybe 2-3 max, just for fun. Sort of side projects, while the rest of the time I'd be doing paid work like corporate, industrial, commercial stuff.
 
Right now, just working with a budget more than scraps would be wonderful. I've done the freebie thing to build my reel, done some microbudget videos, but really want to go to the next level. I know that's working with bands that are serious enough to have labels/management behind them. Working with smaller bands, not saying with other bands there's less drama, but the drama of band members quitting, bands breaking up, then instead of promoting the video, it just kind of goes nowhere. I do my part, but it's something I want the band to be proud of and to promote, not just me.

I'm just looking for a way to get my name to record labels and management companies. I know labels you can cold, warm or send them anything unsolicited, they usually just toss that stuff, just like they do with bands. I'm sure one answer will be to find out who is in charge of a&r/promos/media. Is that the way in? I've tried it with a few labels that I found out the names and got 1 response. So do I keep that up?

thanks for the responses so far,
Stussey
 
Yeah I know what you're saying. So far I've done videos for just two bands (three videos now though), and both bands lost members immediately after my video shoot. I mean immediately. The first one, it wasn't even that far after ;) It was DURING the shoot! We were told when we showed up the drummer would be replaced and was just showing up for the video so he didn't let the guys down, and they were friends still. But basically don't focus on the drummer much at all because he'll be gone. Uhh... ok... That's an awkward start to the day!

That band, which I just shot again today, lost every member (4) besides the lead singer, who was there for our shoot today. He is like the CEO of the band, his name, his style, the band totally changed members. He has some powerful relatives, though, and he also records and mixes a lot of music for other bands who pay him. He has a very impressive home recording studio, many tens of thousands of dollars in equipment. Also extremely talented. But today's shoot, I mean yeah you can say it was "the same band" but when it's 80% different, besides the name and the lead singer, it's kind of not really the same band.

Then the second band I shot, they lost their bass guitarist soon after our shoot, a few months later, went a different direction. I hear the drummer is on the way out possibly, because of geography, not because of anything else (he moved further away from downtown L.A. where the band practices).

Another band I was in talks with to do a music video, they contacted me and were willing to pay, a very very good Hollywood band that has played Universal City Walk and has tons of fans, a band I have come to really like, lost their lead singer when we were in talks basically. Things never moved forward. Now I still want to shoot them, with their new singer, they are basically moving on and it has taken a while (understandably) to get things back in order again. In that band, the drummer is actually the brains behind the band, kind of interesting. I've seen the guitarist be the brains behind the band before, usually the lead singer, but this was a first for me where the drummer was the song writer and band leader.

Then another band I spoke with and met with, saw perform, etc., pretty big band around the area as well, they can fill a house, I heard rumors there might be some issues with the band staying together in its current form as well.

So pretty much I've come to realize that's just how it works, especially with indie bands, though. When the money isn't there, I guess there's less incentive to keep things together.

Yeah I won't film the videos with no budgets, though, too much work and I can't guarantee I'll get anything out of it that I want. I mean if I feel the song is amazing and in some way filming this video fulfills a dream of mine or will help my career by strengthening my reel, I'd film the video paying for it myself so at least I maintain rights to it. But otherwise if they offer what they usually have, which is $500 to $1,500, no thanks. I don't even care about making a profit for now, like I said, I'm happy to gain experience and invest my time FOR FREE, which I think is pretty generous, and I'm happy to bring my equipment for free as well (two HVX200s, MacBook Pros, Mac Pro for my editing, 12 lights 150w to 2K, flags, grip equipment, dolly, porta-jib, lens adapter, matte box, follow focus, you name it!). But if you can't afford to pay me to hire at least a passable crew of 8-9 guys and get some sort of half-way decent location, pay for my transportation and food expenses, etc., then no thanks. It's pretty generous honestly and I'm not going to be doing that much longer, this last shoot may have been my last of the sort. It just depends. I'm fine with moving on into other areas, it just happened I started with music videos and it's a field I'm comfortable in now.
 
How would you recommend even making a music video reel? I was going to put my three best videos on a DVD, basically, because I don't really know that you can make let's say a 3 minute reel of music videos where you pick, I guess, some other music to put with the footage where it won't even make sense what your story was, the concept will be somewhat unclear, and it's hard to know really how the execution of an actual video was.

I mean as a producer who was in the past trying to find talented music video directors to sign to my last production company, basically so we could produce videos for them that we found in certain markets (so we'd find the client, deal with logistics, rent equipment, etc. and the client would pick one of our directors, of which I was one, etc.), I saw completed music videos. If someone sent me a reel of 3-4 minutes of random music video shots, I think it would have been a bit weird. If they were all killer shots, I would have been more likely to ask who the DP was so I could hire him, to be honest, than thinking, "Wow this director must be amazing!" I need to see the finished product to know what the director's work is like. For me, I'd rather see one awesome music video from a director than footage from 7-8 music videos, if I could only watch 3-4 minutes of someone's work. I'm not sure how the real decision makers think on that.
 
It's weird the topic of reels got brought up. I was on another board and someone was talking about editing reels and said they were pretty pointless. I can kind of see why, but now that everything is online it's easier to show your work. I've always had problems with demos because there's not a really a standard for editing. If you're a DP or motion graphics person it's pretty straight forward.

I'm getting antsy because I haven't shot a music video in almost a year. I've been doing tv work to pay the bills. Hopefully of couple of these in the works won't break up before we get to production or soon after.
 
I know what you mean, if you do enough non-passion work in a row you get annoyed and start wondering when you're going to do work you're really excited about. Even for me, I did a music video in April, and then I was busy on corporate work at the end of April, all of May (shooting), all of June (post-production), and then had to deal with company issues after my vacation at the end of July and in August mostly. By the middle of August I was looking for another band to shoot a video for, but ended up just shooting my newest video last Sunday. It was crazy to me in a way that I shot one video in April, the next in September, it seems like such a long time, and now I have to work hard to fit in a third video this year. It just seems kind of weird that in a year it's actually not easy to direct even three music videos (while doing other stuff). Even if I were a full-time music video director, and there are very very few of those today if any at all, I don't think realistically I'd be able to do more than 10-12 per year, because I couldn't work all of the time, and each shoot usually takes a while to get together, I think if I shot 10 music videos in a year I'd be really impressed. I mean if I were just going to see a band playing at a bar and throwing up two cameras, then editing it, obviously I could do 100 of those a year, haha, but when you're talking about a real music video, that's tough, and a lot of work. In my opinion it's tougher per minute by far than a feature film, at least at this level. If I were to do an indie feature I'd aim to shoot at least 6 pages per day, but more likely 8-9, so I'd want 8 minutes of good footage in the can ideally per day. With a music video I'm trying to get 3-4. The editing is way, way harder on a music video per minute than a feature. A feature is pretty cut and dry, you have your scenes and your takes, and you pick the best ones. Especially for indie stuff where you don't have a bunch of green screen effects work and crazy editing, you have more or less people talking, etc. Not really rocket science. But music video editing, sheesh, it's a pain in the butt most of the time.

This is my newest video by the way, we did manage to edit it in two days, new record, last one took like two weeks no joke: http://www.orbitalreviews.com/ignis-fatuus/ignis-fatuus.html
 
I started off in post. I only ended up shooting and doing production because most people in Atlanta edit their own work or have their friends who are really directors edit their work. I always hated the 'fix it in post' line on set. But at least when I was shooting, I knew how and if I could fix it in post. Until this year, I was averaging 2 concept music videos a year. I was doing other stuff, dvd's, live shows,etc. but 2 concept videos. I don't know what happened this year. I know 2 bands that I had talked to broke up and 3 others still haven't finished recording.

I have 2 that are looking like they're going to at least head into real pre-production soon. One is for kids and the other a death metal video. Nothing like variety. I usually spend more time in post than shooting, which I need to quit doing. I need to be more patient and organized.

Either way, I still have to find a way to get my work into the promo/video people at labels. In the starting a business thread it's all 'warm' calling. But I know you can't do that at a label. You'll just be ignored, especially nowadays. I know I just need that one band and it could be the break I need.


I liked the video. What did you shoot it on? lenses?

If you're ever in Atlanta or the South and need help, feel free to contact me.

Thanks for all the responses on this thread.
 
Hey, we shot with two HVX200s (plus our behind-the-scenes camera, which was used for C camera once or twice with story stuff outside, like graffiti where we needed all of the cameras on that), just stock lenses. It was a fairly low budget project, but crew of 10, definitely the band put a lot of work into making it good, getting their fans to come out as extras, making props and wardrobe stuff, etc.
 
JonathanLB said:
How would you recommend even making a music video reel? I was going to put my three best videos on a DVD, basically, because I don't really know that you can make let's say a 3 minute reel of music videos where you pick, I guess, some other music to put with the footage where it won't even make sense what your story was, the concept will be somewhat unclear, and it's hard to know really how the execution of an actual video was.

I mean as a producer who was in the past trying to find talented music video directors to sign to my last production company, basically so we could produce videos for them that we found in certain markets (so we'd find the client, deal with logistics, rent equipment, etc. and the client would pick one of our directors, of which I was one, etc.), I saw completed music videos. If someone sent me a reel of 3-4 minutes of random music video shots, I think it would have been a bit weird. If they were all killer shots, I would have been more likely to ask who the DP was so I could hire him, to be honest, than thinking, "Wow this director must be amazing!" I need to see the finished product to know what the director's work is like. For me, I'd rather see one awesome music video from a director than footage from 7-8 music videos, if I could only watch 3-4 minutes of someone's work. I'm not sure how the real decision makers think on that.
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I was pondering this same thing, as a person who's productions have exclusively been music videos so far. The best I came up with is to line up the best parts (in your mind) of the videos you've done, and roll it through maybe 10-15 second clips with audio fading out when the video does, just keep going through these clips even if you use multiple clips from the same videos, just don't put them next to each other. Like a movie preview, you're getting images flashing the whole time. You're ability to tell the story in a music video should lend you to creating a decent 'story' of your work in a reel. don't have any text or anything until the end, when you can credit the bands and any crew, but just flash those images. Short attention spans, everyone. Just my thoughts
 
Hmm, interesting take, yeah I suppose that would work. I only have 3 music videos to my name so far, though, so I'd probably have to have some repetition. I'm very proud of those three videos and have put about $15,000 into my reel, but that's what I got so far. I might have another one coming up. Then after that, basically I'm out of music videos I think until I can get paid. I'm satisfied with my reel at this point and if someone doesn't think it's worth paying me based on what I've done, at least paying me enough to cover expenses, honestly no thanks. I can do corporate work and make money rather than doing more music video work and losing it, haha. It was fun, though, so hopefully I can find some paying clients with what I've already done.
 
JonathanLB said:
I can do corporate work and make money rather than doing more music video work and losing it, haha.
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That's basically what you gotta do. Shoot some for love, some for money, and at the end of the day hope it all adds up. I've always gone with sacrificing the bigger profit for the bigger joy, but you still have to suck it up sometimes and do something you don't wanna do or don't enjoy as much for the $$$. Then again, I suppose that applies to any industry around.
 
So getting back to my original post. Not only am I talking about directing music videos, but getting my foot in the door to do DVD's or film anything when they come through my part of the country.
Is it all connections? and how do you know you're making the right connection?

thanks again
 
RandomHero said:
That's basically what you gotta do. Shoot some for love, some for money, and at the end of the day hope it all adds up. I've always gone with sacrificing the bigger profit for the bigger joy, but you still have to suck it up sometimes and do something you don't wanna do or don't enjoy as much for the $$$. Then again, I suppose that applies to any industry around.
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Pretty much, yeah. And I would agree with sacrificing the bigger profits for bigger joy, but then again to me I don't see it as giving up money, I see it as going for the bigger money, just over the longer period of time. Unless my company grew to become some huge media giant, doing corporate video work really won't make you much money. Even if you were able to make $200,000, $300,000 a year, if you had lots of clients and were able to do lots of work, still, that's not the big money. That's a nice living. The big money will always be in the big, glamorous projects, high budget feature films, television series, etc. So for me, I don't want to get stuck doing corporate work forever. Of course I'd love to make even $100,000 a year now doing corporate work, that'd be awesome, but 15 years from now I want to be doing bigger work and have the potential for real cash. So I see corporate work as more of a way to pay the bills and stay in the game until you get the breaks. To get those breaks, you need to take risks with the money you do make, putting it into passion projects that may go nowhere, but they may be your ticket to the big leagues. I guess it's all a matter of balance.

All I know is right now, I need to start making some more money, because too much has been outgoing and not enough coming in. You could call that a 'cash flow problem," haha ;) Plus my dad is not very understanding about what I'm trying to do, nor does he understand the industry. Every time I make a project, it's just amazing the way he reacts, it's never like, "Hey, great job, that was really fantastic," it's all about what I spent, what I made, etc. Last night on the phone, I told him we finished editing the latest music video and I guess it was about 25 hours of editing, not bad at all by our standards, usually it has taken more like 40-50 hours but we've gotten a lot better and also there were no technical glitches, no computer problems, etc. That helps. So instead of even asking me, "How did it turn out?" or "Are you happy with it?" or saying, "Great, I can't wait to see it!" he just asks me right away, "So how much money did you make per hour?" He knows I spent my own money making this project as part of my Making Indie Music Videos DVD project I'm trying to assemble, so he knows it's something I hope pays off but that might not. It's a risk. Worst case scenario it helps my reel, which is still great for me at this point. And he asks how much I made per hour? It was just like... uhh... ?? Very awkward.

It'd be one thing if I was doing silly things, taking out credit card debt or on the verge of being homeless or something, but that's not the case at all. I certainly have the money to be taking risks. I think he believes that high-paying corporate clients are super easy to find and if I just spent a few hours, I'd find a bunch of great projects that would make me tons of money, so I'm just being lazy in his mind by not doing that. He doesn't quite realize that it's Los Angeles, there are lots of low-rent producers around who can do that type of work, so it takes time to make the right connections and get that work.
 
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