Highschool Students First Film

JamieF

JamieF

Member
I'm currently a senior in high school and as everyone else on this site is, im really passionate about film making. Ive made over 15 shorts (only about 4-7 min each) over the past 3 years, and ive had alot of positive feedback from friends, family, and teachers. But for the most part it has been largely experimental stuff.

Im really looking to dive into short films (20-30min) and id love to make an hour long or more, but im level headed enough to realize diving into a feature film is way over my head, and may be for quite a few more years. But i would love to hear anyones similar stories, possibly who are in my current position, or possibly who were at some point there. Id love to know what to do next. Im a pretty decent writer and ive been coming up with a fairly decent idea for a longer film, i just dont want to waste a decent idea with my inexperience. I want to do it right. Any ideas on how i can get started into more serious work (to help me along to longer movies?)
 
You say it's your first film, but also that you've made more than 15 shorts. Are you trying to make your first "serious" narrative?

If so, I'd keep it at the same length you have and just increase the quality. Write the best short you can, and then get people to help you make it. Get professional actors instead of your friends. 20-30 minutes is still a really long time.
 
Yeah, have you made 15-20 shorts with actual stories? If not, as said before, keep it the same length and increase the quality. You can also take your idea for a longer film and try and turn it into a 5-10 minute short. The key thing is when you're starting out to keep your investment of time low on each project, so you'll learn the most in the shortest amount of time possible. With longer films you'll spend weeks shooting, even longer editing, and there will be so much heartache when your huge project isn't turning out how you wanted it to. You also won't be able to see your mistakes in shooting until long after they've been made.

Shorts on the other hand you'll be able to finish in a day or two, edit in a few more, and within that time you'll learn just as much as you would have on your longer form film. Just remember that longer doesn't mean better!
 
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Thanks guys.

I meant first film in the sense that its longer than a short. Ive been writing out ideas and starting to script about an hour long movie. I wont really get into details unless anyone really wants to know but. Thats it. Ive only been using lower level digital camcorders and pretty much the crews have been me and my friends who are photographers. The other part I'm really not too good at is dialogue. I have a lot of trouble getting consistency using one camera shooting.

I guess while I'm asking, any suggestions on a first camera? or should i rent?

oh and the filmmaker.com list is great.
 
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Jamie,
I would buy a camera for the simple fact that you can use it any time you want...you don't have to be worried about returning the camera, which will cause you to rush your shooting. Take your time...study films...and start shooting much longer films. It's like training for a marathon...sooner than later you want to run that first marathon so you accomplish it. Once you shoot a feature-length film you will gain so much confidence...even if it sucks. The step up is huge, but do it now and you will always know that you can do it. If you keep making very short films, then you will be afriad to jump off the high dive! Do it!
 
If you can afford it, I would go with a Canon HV20 or HV30. It shoots 1080/24p. Which is a steal at $600. I have a HV20 and love it.

Then on the low end of the scale is the UltraFlip. It's a flash based camera for like $100. You might have to do some conversion to the files to drop them into an NLE, but it comes with its own basic editor.

It doesn't really matter too much what kind of camera you get. Instead of worrying about specs and all that stuff, just get a camera. Any camera. Then you can just start making stuff.
 
I probably should have said first "Decent" camera. I have a basic sony DV camera. I was looking to upgrade to an HD, possibly even nicer than the HV20. Will to spend up to a few thousand if its necessary. But id like to get something that will grow with me, but not be too much for me to handle.
 
I think the HV20 is a fine choice. You can grow it by getting lens adapters, LCD screens, rails, matte boxes, etc.

If you're looking in the $2k range, I would get a DVX200. And if you're willing to wait, I hear the RED Scarlet is supposed to come in at around $2500. But that's in '09
 
Red Scarlet would be bomb, but im not sure i want to be a guniea pig. I was thinking more like the Canon XH A1?
 
Your camera choice also depends on whether or not HD is a big factor to you... Are you planning on outputting to Blu-ray or some other HD format? Or are you just interested in HD because of the way technology is heading right now?

I say this because for around the same price as an A1 (not sure on the exact price, I could be wrong) you can get a used DVX with a decent amount of accesories. And the DVX is an amazing camera, especially considering how cheap you can get one these days.

Now, keep in mind I've never actually used an A1, and I've heard they are amazing, but to me, if I was trying to keep budget down and I didn't have a real need for HD, I think I'd go for a DVX with some accesories before an XHA1.

I also agree with the other posts on here about the HV20. Again, I haven't personally used one, but I've seen great footage from them. And if you want to go the HD route, they are a great choice for the price. And with the amount of customization being done to them these days, there is no shortage at all of resources to help you build it into a really nice rig.

Good luck with your decision though, happy shooting

PS, no matter which camera you decide to go with, it doesn't mean you can't get amazing footage from it. I've seen great work come from low end consumer cameras.
It all depends on how you shoot/light/direct/etc. You want a shallow DOF for the illusive "film look"? Move your camera farther from the subject and zoom in (assuming the set allows for this). There are a number of "tricks" you can use to get a fairly decent "pro" look from a relatively cheap camera. This site is a great resource for any number of these.
 
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Solid Advice guys.
I checked out the HV20/HV30. Its a really nice camera. If i was going to invest now i prob would do it in that. For the time being i think im going to rent tho.

I visited a few of the colleges I'm looking at and they told me i had to submit a short film as part of the application process for their film programs. So it looks like i NEED to make a short film as best i can, so i can impress them.

I just figured out a local Media club around where i live in Buffalo, NY rents out cameras for relatively cheap.

JVC GY-HD110 - 60$/ day

Shotgun mics 10$/ day

im borrowing lights from my school who just brought them for their photo and video programs. As well Im borrowing tripods and dollys. I was wondering if anyone knew of any companys that rent steady cams ?

Anything im missing?
As well, anyone have experience with that camera?
 
Just because you need a short film, doesn't necessarily mean you need to go all out. I think what they're looking for is where your storytelling ability is. But to be safe, you should contact the school to see what the requirements are for the film.

In the long run, you're better off having your own camera. That gives you TONS of flexibility on when/where you shoot.
 
What schools are you applying to?

I am actually a few hours outside of buffalo myself. Based here - and a student - at Ithaca College.

I would strongly recommend not shooting a 20 - 30 minute film. Honestly, it is a waste of time. You are at an awkward timeframe that doesn't fit into film fest schedules.

Too long to have before a feature, and too short to come after a short.

Stick with the under 10 minute films, or go to feature status.

As for dialog, being consistent while filming is more an issue with the lack of a script supervisor. When you are shooting, have someone follow along in the script and watch for strays in dialog, note where they go astray so it's easier to match when you get the reverse.

Really - and this is said a lot, it's not the camera but what you shoot. I've seen some terrible footage even from upper level cameras. Since you are only a Senior - focus more on the fundamentals of story and shot selection. Worry about the larger technical end while in school. Assuming you are going to a film school - or one with a film program, you should (operative clause is should) learn the technical end of the film process. The way the cameras work, how to light, how to get good sound. You can teach all of this. But teaching the methods of creating a captivating film are impossible to do.

And if you ever need any help in the Buffalo area, or central new york when you embark on a larger project - feel free to get in touch.
 
Schools I'm applying to will Include Ithaca, UB, Buffalo State, and York University in Toronto.

York and Buff State require a 5-10min short film or script, and since I'm not exactly a stellar script writer, I figured i would shoot a short, which I'm Familiar with. I realize its not what i shoot on but how i shoot, but at this point my HI8 camcorder might matter a little bit in the matter of presentation. I know it would "do" and I could still shoot a great short on it. But if i can shoot something great on a crappy camera, it will be that much better on a decent one.

Ive been hoping to work with a little better equipment anyway so i figure while i have the resources, why not use a decent camera and give the short that much more.

As well as this being a way to help me into school, I also see it as kinda jumping off the High board in a sense. Ive got a few months to complete it (applications to the actual major is not until January) and I really am excited to make another more serious short, Ive been thinking of story's from a month or two.

Good to know some people from around Buffalo are on DVX, I hadn't stumbled into any yet.
 
I suggest buying the equipment...

And yes, I do know a good story doesn't need lots of expensive equipment...

But if you've had practice, better equipment may give you a chance to tell your stories even better. a 35mm adaptor/DOF can allow you to focus your audiences attention. Dollys can create an element of surprise or shock if used correctly (as well as many, many, many other things). So more equipment isn't necessarily a bad thing. especially after you've done several shorts and are ready to move up.
 
If you come by Ithaca, let me know - I can give you a rundown of the school.

And might I ask how one would justify buying the equipment over renting it? Why would you consider spending thousands in equipment when you will be going to a film school where you have all/most of the equipment you need. It would be a needless expense. With the digital realm changing so much, and camera that is bought quickly gets obsolete.

When you are in a film school you have expensive cameras you can use for free (unless you break it). It wouldn't make much sense to buy. Especially with only one short at those prices. It would take 71 days of renting to equate to the cost of the camera. 60 days of renting the mic. The light kits are being rented for free. How is any money saved by buying?

I am one of the only ones on this site that is pro renting. And I stick by it. But everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
 
I'd have to agree with mattykins on this one. When I was in school, the dvx was still top of the line (as far as prosumer goes..) And the fact that I could rent it for free along with all the equipment/editing suites i could possibly use, The thought of buying didn't cross my mind once (well, I thought it would be nice to own one of course, but it just didn't seem logical at all to me at the time).

It wasn't until after I got out of school and found out about the HVX that I decided to buy one, especially since I no longer had the luxury of free rental.

I'd say without a doubt, while you are in school there isn't really a point at all to buy an expensive camera, especially since for all you know by the time you're done school, there could be something better on the market, or the prices could change.

Why put out the money for a dvx, or hv20 or something, when you could go to school, use an hvx or hpx or whatever it is that your school has to offer, just to finish school and be stuck with a sub-par camera? (compared to what you have been using)

Wait until you're finished school to buy. Just my opinion
 
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