Selling to distributors for lump sum?

C

Charlie06

Well-known member
How often does that happen?
I'm starting prepo for a feature. Budget 200-250k
Using almost 80k for a recognizable actor, and a good story (drama/thriller)
Is it realistic to think that it could be bought for lump sum? (350k) or percentage that would add to that in a year?

Let me know please.
Appreciate all of your answers.
 
The odds of you getting it bought for a profitable lump sum are approximately 0.0001%. Every year thousands of films get made, and every year one or two get bought in a bidding war at Sundance, so -- if you're that one out of a thousand, yeah. Otherwise, no.
 
If someone likes the film...then yes.

That is like asking, "will I win the lotto if I buy a ticket today?"
 
Follow your dreams!!!! Mine have cost me a couple mill but they made me realize that when I grow up I'm going to be an Indy car driver / playboy... Making movies is not for me.

Everyone has 35 bad movies in them so it's best to get them all out now...

You'll get a distributor but he's not gonna pay you a dime.
 
ChipG said:
Follow your dreams!!!! Mine have cost me a couple mill but they made me realize that when I grow up I'm going to be an Indy car driver / playboy... Making movies is not for me.
Click to expand...

Indy car driver eh? I want to wear a big metal suit and fly around destroying weapons I've sold. Oh, I also want a super powerful magnet in my chest to keep shrapnel from killing me.

That, and I want to be Batman. :)
 
Ninja,

I always wear my Iron Man shirt for an extra level of protection! Thats me on the left in my pic & I'm wearing my Iron Man shirt. Thank you...

Too peace :)
 
I get Barry's point, but the odds aren't that bad. They're bad, that's for sure, but they are no worse than 1 in 300 of making a profit on a film or at least making your money back. At least, if you do things the right way, I don't concern myself with the odds for if you don't plan properly, you waste money, and have no idea what you're doing. But it depends on your budget level too. It sounds to me like a lot of people making projects in the $15,000 to $25,000 are having success at least recouping their investments. It sounds like at the $100,000 to $10 million level, people are finding a lot of difficulties.

But I think everyone seems to look at things in such a direct way, they aren't considering all of the indirect benefits of what they're doing.

For instance, I made a $10,000 music video. I paid that to make a music video for an indie band I didn't even know before the project. A lot of friends told me I was crazy, or at least they were like, "I don't know man... dude... that's a lot of money, are you sure about this?" I wasn't sure, but I believed it was worth the risks when I looked at the situation. At this early point, I'm still not sure if it was worth it or not, but if things proceed along the current lines then, yes, it was worth it. My DP later rented $700 in equipment from me, and I never would have had him as a connection if I hadn't shot that video, so there was 7% of the money back. I gained tons of experience and learned a lot, and in film school, any film school, that would have been worth $4,000, no question, because I got first-hand experience working with a large crew, or at least about 18 guys and gals, plus extras and cast, bigger than anything I had done before, so I got a much more first-hand knowledge of how a pro shoot works, how different jobs play out, and learning for the future because I intend to be in this business for a long time. So to me, that was certainly worth something. The behind-the-scenes videographer I hired, who was also a DP, I worked with on a large corporate project that went down very smooth because he is a good DP, a good cameraman, and the client was thrilled with the work we did. I made a lot of money on that project and I needed someone I could trust because we were on the road for 20 days, so without that music video I'd have been stuck hiring someone I had never worked with before. After that, he rented about $100 in P2 cards from me once, I'm sure he'll end up renting stuff again. We're going to work together on two more projects next month. I now consult with that DP about a lot of career advice, we're working together again next month as well I hope, I'll find out tomorrow, so that was a fantastic connection. The UPM on that shoot is someone I want to work with again in the future, as is the 1st A.D. I hired the hair-and-makeup artist for a training video because I could trust her and she wasn't expensive.

Besides all of that, I'm using the BTS footage for a product I intend to sell, so that's why I say I can't say yet whether it was worth the money, but I hope that a year from now I will look back and say, definitely, that was worth it. But directly speaking, I won't sell the video to a label most likely because it looks as though the band has fallen apart slightly, they will continue, the lead singer and guitar are there for the long haul, bass was replaced or is being replaced, and drums may or may not be replaced, so maybe the music video won't be useable even if they did get signed. So directly speaking, I will be unlikely to recoup my money, and of course I knew that, I figured my odds of that were about 1 in 200 so not worth even thinking about. But indirectly, I believe it was worth the money. It has also been selected so far to 5 film festivals, out of 9 I've heard from, and it's being considered for 26, so if I can bat about .500 there and it gets into 13 by the time all is said and done, that's fantastic, because I made more connections from the few film festivals I already attended, plus it boosted my resume by having this success with the video.

So if I shot a feature, spent $125,000, and it sold for $30,000, a pitiful sum, and I lost almost $100,000, of course I'd be pretty ticked off and disappointed. But if that gave me a ton of experience, which it would, and that experience got me hired to direct some cable TV episode or some Web short film for a major corporation that paid me fairly well, and that feature opened the door to being paid for more narrative work, then I would consider it money well spent. If it basically helped me establish myself as a working director, it would have been worthwhile even though directly, and on paper, that was a money-loser. So it's kind of the difference between a tactical victory and a strategic victory. My music video was a tactical defeat, but a strategic victory. In fact most of what I do now is a tactical defeat, i.e. it loses me money, money I won't get back from that project, but in the big scheme of things, it advances my career by giving me a better reel and more experience, i.e. the ability to do more professional, bigger work in the future.

When I finish my next music video, if it turns out well (I'll known in three weeks, hehe), I'll start sending my reel to some production companies and record labels, and if I am given a chance on a small budget music video, that would be another way I could look back and say, "Yeah, I spent a lot of money on these videos, but they advanced my career, they were totally worth it."

So with features, I would consider these extra benefits as well. If you don't care about those, you think you're already a great narrative director because maybe you've done 10 great shorts that won festivals, etc., and you don't believe directing a feature will actually help you get work or help your career, then I would be cautious about plowing your own money into a feature because then it sounds like you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

My range of "acceptable outcomes" is higher. I by no means want to lose money on any project I do, but I could lose $100,000 if it meant that my career took a big step forward because of it, if the film got great reviews from its target audience / Websites, did well in its target festivals, and got me work. There's also the fact that if it's personally satisfying, if it turns out to my high standards (and I do have high standards, if I make something crappy I will not be happy with it, so that would to me be the biggest nightmare), and if people enjoy it as well, I will have accomplished one important life goal and will never have to look back and say, "Well, I always wanted to do a feature, but everyone on the forums and people I know and stuff said the odds were so bad, I didn't even bother trying, oh well. I guess I'll never know if I would have made a good feature director." No thanks. I don't want to be in that boat.

I will leave you with Theodore Roosevelt's famous quote, one of my favorites: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”
 
Charlie06 said:
How often does that happen?
I'm starting prepo for a feature. Budget 200-250k
Using almost 80k for a recognizable actor, and a good story (drama/thriller)
Is it realistic to think that it could be bought for lump sum? (350k) or percentage that would add to that in a year?
Click to expand...

Barry_Green said:
The odds of you getting it bought for a profitable lump sum are approximately 0.0001%. Every year thousands of films get made, and every year one or two get bought in a bidding war at Sundance, so -- if you're that one out of a thousand, yeah. Otherwise, no.
Click to expand...

It happens much more than you think. Not to fully disagree with Barry (who's been around much longer than me). But when you take in everything most people have said especially Jonathan's long thread. There's truth to all of it.

If your movie 100% sucks and you spent $250K you probably will not make all of it back, but you probably will get a lump sum, maybe not $250K worth. If you're new and this is your first feature, I'd encounrage learning on a $20K movie first, and make your mistakes early. If you stick in easy sells which I talk about in The 24 Diary, you should be okay or at least minimize your risk.

People focus WAY too much on Sundance and these large 2Mill buy outs. There are a lot of other ways to get your work out there. I briefly go over some of them, but you have to do some serious research to find out what works for you. The biggest thing, is that you need a decent movie to start with.

But if I could raise $250K for a feature, I'm 95% sure I could sell it. So if anyone wants to exec produce my way let me know. :laugh:
 
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A lot depends on what YOUR role is in the movie project.

To my mind, the job that's both hardest and easiest is producer. Producing is a lot of work, but it's also the best way to maintain total creative control over your project. And it requires the least amount of technical skills. Your biggest concern when producing is hiring the right people to do all the other jobs. You don't have to know how to shoot, you just know how to hire the right DP. Don't have to know how to get great audio, just know how to hire the right sound guy. Don't have to know editing..... You get the idea. :)

Of course, you need to have enough knowledge to be able to find the right people. But knowledge and skill are two different things.

Get the great script. Get the money. Hire the best, most experienced, most qualified people you can afford for every job. Do that, and you have a good shot at recovering your investors' money and making a profit.
 
Alright...
A few things:

That teddy R quote was deep as hell. (copy and paste into SIG)
Second. Thanks for the imformative answers. I'd love to have your producer sabby Js4, I'd love to work with you as well. Thanks for the long post Jonathan, it was very hepful, and yes all the experience and contacts I would make would be worth the loss. But it is not my money, it is money invested by somebody else. And before anything, whether getting other jobs or making a profit for myself, I want to pay them back, so they will invest again with more money, and I'l have a feature length under my belt, with some known actors :)!

I'm an aspiring D.P, but I will need one for this production
I have fun writting, but I'm buing a screenplay for this production
I don't like directing, so I need the credit, so I will direct. Anyone who wants to A.D. who has experience and wants to have a great time in Chicago is welcome.

I'd love to hear about some of your experiences in making features (i.e how much it was for, what genre, who was in it, how much did it sell for etc)

Thank you guys for your support.

Charlie Garcia.
 
I think some people are over simplifying this entire thing. Just because you hire good people doesn't mean automatic sell. Many films go to fests and aren't bought. Many films never see the light of day even though they kicked a lot of money into it. Just because you have SAG doesn't mean you will get bought. I worked on a SAG ultra-low a little while ago. From what I saw, there is no way that film will go anywhere. And the crew was a great crew. But the vision just wasn't there. If it comes together in the edit - sweet. But if not, I don't know what will happen with it.
 
Charlie06 said:
That teddy R quote was deep as hell. (copy and paste into SIG)
Second. Thanks for the imformative answers. I'd love to have your producer sabby Js4, I'd love to work with you as well. ...

I want to pay them back, so they will invest again with more money, and I'l have a feature length under my belt, with some known actors :)!

I'd love to hear about some of your experiences in making features (i.e how much it was for, what genre, who was in it, how much did it sell for etc)

Thank you guys for your support.

Charlie Garcia.
Click to expand...

thanks for the kudos. But like I've said a million times before that everyone can do it and pay back their execs. As for finding out how much money people made - that's the hard part. I've asked at least 4 people and none of them would give me a straight answer. It's like their either too embarrased OR they don't want to break up any confidentiality agreements made. Most won't even give you a ball park figure. So what you'll have to do is lots of research and look for articles on the web. Good thing is that when you're on a hot trail it'll be smokin hot, bad thing is when you're not on a good trail it'll be cold as ice. And with 5000 movies being made every year, you may be looking at over 50K movies to research - ouch! just to get info from the last 10 years. Anything before that is worthless anyway.
 
It can happen if you do it right...

It has to be a film that sells... read this thread...

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=126339

or this one...

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=108831

These have been brought up... but two good examples of people who understand the need to make money in making a film... that's the bottom line... its making money... its making a film that will sell...

Read the biz plan for a Lonely Place... study and pick your market... or style of film...

Do films fail... yeah all the time...

Write a good script, find a good dp and gaffer... good sound and good lighting are so important... get known talent in cameo or co-starring roles... and of course repeating myself have a good script...
 
A good script isn't good enough. You need a GREAT script. A great script will help you secure ALL of the other things you need -- money, talent, everything. Focus on the script first.
 
jls4 said:
But like I've said a million times before that everyone can do it and pay back their execs.
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Really? I think a great many people would disagree with you.

Even "Evil Dead", a massive cult classic, didn't make enough to pay back its producers. Sam/Ted/Bruce all said that the main reason they took on the "Evil Dead 2" project was so that they could take their advance fees and use that to pay back their "Evil Dead" investors.

At Cannes and Mifed, nobody was buying *anything*. The phrase that was reportedly used more often than any other was "worst. market. ever."

The O.P. was asking basically how guaranteed it is that if he sinks $250k into a film, that a distributor will write him a check for at least $250k, up front, to buy it. My response was "extremely unlikely" and I stand by that.
 
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