Im officially broke
- Thread starter HerzogisGod
- Start date
HerzogisGod
Well-known member
Thanks
How do you go about renting your camera? can you trust it will come back in unharmed? who do you rent your gear to? insurance? who's responsible for damage
How do you go about renting your camera? can you trust it will come back in unharmed? who do you rent your gear to? insurance? who's responsible for damage
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
So far I've only rented my camera to trusted people, either a friend's connection / contact or a DP I've worked with previously who I trust. I haven't asked for insurance certificates, which I figured I would do initially, but I do have them sign a contract agreeing that I'm not responsible for equipment malfunctions and that they need to check the equipment upon delivery, blah blah etc., also that any damages are their responsibility. Now, in practice, some people may not even have the money to pay for broken equipment if they do break something, so I suppose I'm taking a risk in that sense but no risk, no reward.
That being said, if I was renting out the RED nobody would get that camera without proper insurance. I'm fully insured, but not for renting my equipment, only for my own productions, so I'm not sure how I'd go about that. All I know is that if I was renting something super expensive like the RED and more expensive lenses, I wouldn't let anyone touch that equipment without proper insurance. I really wish I had the RED, haha, but that's one reason I'm reluctant to buy it now. Most indie filmmakers can't afford that type of rental, not unless they're doing some medium budget work anyway, and so it'd be tough to make my money back without using it a lot myself. I know I'd get good use out of it for sure, and it would help the professionalism of my work, but for me right now that's not worth the $40,000 investment or whatever to get the setup, get a lens, get a really pro tripod, etc. I want to shoot my first feature with the RED, though, so I'll probably buy before that.
That being said, if I was renting out the RED nobody would get that camera without proper insurance. I'm fully insured, but not for renting my equipment, only for my own productions, so I'm not sure how I'd go about that. All I know is that if I was renting something super expensive like the RED and more expensive lenses, I wouldn't let anyone touch that equipment without proper insurance. I really wish I had the RED, haha, but that's one reason I'm reluctant to buy it now. Most indie filmmakers can't afford that type of rental, not unless they're doing some medium budget work anyway, and so it'd be tough to make my money back without using it a lot myself. I know I'd get good use out of it for sure, and it would help the professionalism of my work, but for me right now that's not worth the $40,000 investment or whatever to get the setup, get a lens, get a really pro tripod, etc. I want to shoot my first feature with the RED, though, so I'll probably buy before that.
slimchrisp
Well-known member
so what was it you told him? i'm gearing up for financing myself. i plan to shoot a feature next spring or summer, and i'm trying to figure this all out as well.
IMHO the financing thing is the hardest part, hands down. you can plan for every technical problem, story problem, etc. but at the low budget indie level getting the $$$ is the hard part.
Hans Moleman
Carbonite Member
I'd have to say financing a feature is a cakewalk compared to financing a short.
With features, I can show you distribution channels, DVD grosses of similar films, etc. and you can easily see how your money comes back. With shorts, there isn't any of that.
With features, I can show you distribution channels, DVD grosses of similar films, etc. and you can easily see how your money comes back. With shorts, there isn't any of that.
slimchrisp
Well-known member
kind of my point. so with those barriers, what was your selling point? future promise of features?
Hans Moleman
Carbonite Member
The man happens to own a company, that sells a product, that badly needs exposure to educated males, 18-24 in the U.S. and Canada. ie: film festival go-ers
slimchrisp
Well-known member
nice. congrats on that.
Jason Miller
Veteran
Hans, I'm shocked this question hasn't been assked, but how was it in there interest to give you 10 grand, how are you planning on making them a profit with a short? Shorts do not usually make a lot of money if any, the only one i can think of was George lucas in love. anyway I'd like to pick your brain a bit. I wiosh I could say I pedal my wears for money to make my films, but honestly, I shoot other peoples stuff just to pay bills.
Jason
Jason
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Hans Moleman
Carbonite Member
He happens to peddle a product that needs very targeted exposure, and a little something else: credibility. He's in a fairly congested market, and associating his product with a film of this calibre, giving it credibility, is something you can't buy.
I mean, the script is brilliant, the cast is phenomenal, and the whole crew is already proven award winners. He gets in on the ground floor of some real art, and will see a huge indirect return because of the exposure his product gets.
Jason Miller
Veteran
is this filme Redlined? who do you have for cast?
Mattykins
Cute Member
Might I ask why you are being so secretive about the film, nature of the film...basically every aspect of said film?
I mean, I am just finding this interesting that you talk about how you are raking in money for the production and you have a perfect script, perfect film - but won't mention anything about it. If you are doing so well - why hide it?
I mean, I am just finding this interesting that you talk about how you are raking in money for the production and you have a perfect script, perfect film - but won't mention anything about it. If you are doing so well - why hide it?
Hans Moleman
Carbonite Member
the film is, in fact, Redlined, and though I cant name names, the cast includes one name actor, as well as this year's ACTF national winner. Also, the reason I don't openly and shamelessly self promote outside of details pertinent to the thread is because it's my project and i dont feel its really in my interest to divulge every detail. did that on rooster, and no one paid attention any way. I'm also trying not to thread jack. The guy's having trouble finding money for his movies, and I'm going through how I got mine. The reason I talk up my film is because you HAVE to. No one is gonna take a chance on you if your pitch is "Well, it's a pretty good script, plus my friends are in it, and they're really funny too. So, yeah... Can I have a check?"
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moonlitnite
Well-known member
Hi Herzog,
Although it indeed it's a bit of a paradox that you're open to discuss budget shortfalls but little else, we appreciate you sharing financial issues - a bane to (most) all of us.
I imagine prospective investors will ask questions like:
1. What was your original budget?
2. Where were the overruns?
3. What line items were underforcasted or missed?
4. What's your new production timeline?
5. What about resource dependencies and contingencies?
6. What obligations/indebtedness (contracts, bills, etc) do you have in place?
7. What costs are variable or fixed, and what controls do you have in place to manage the costs?
8. Do your new costs include critical elements such as insurances, workman's compensation, etc. ?
You state you've spent your entire budget and completed maybe a third of the film.
9. What's your new budget and how confident are you this time?
One might assume your prior budget stopped at the end of shooting.
10. What is your post-production budget, including:
a. Video editing?
b. Sound edit?
c. ADR?
d. Foley?
e. Music/score?
f. Mix/rerecord?
g. M&E?
h. Film convesion?
i. Film lab?
j. Marketing? (including PR, advertising, press kits, promos)
k. Distribution?
l. G & A? (including legal)
11. What distribution agreements are in place? (contracts)
12. What distribution agreements are planned and what are the contingencies?
13. Will you need to secure additional funding for these phases?
14. What are your business arrangements with:
a. Investors in place?
b. Investors needed for this round?
c. Investors need for the additional phases?
14. What are your revenue sharing arrangements with your investors?
Hans, I'm sure this list missed many items but hopefully it will be helpful when you talk with prospective investors...
Regards, Michael
Although it indeed it's a bit of a paradox that you're open to discuss budget shortfalls but little else, we appreciate you sharing financial issues - a bane to (most) all of us.
I imagine prospective investors will ask questions like:
1. What was your original budget?
2. Where were the overruns?
3. What line items were underforcasted or missed?
4. What's your new production timeline?
5. What about resource dependencies and contingencies?
6. What obligations/indebtedness (contracts, bills, etc) do you have in place?
7. What costs are variable or fixed, and what controls do you have in place to manage the costs?
8. Do your new costs include critical elements such as insurances, workman's compensation, etc. ?
You state you've spent your entire budget and completed maybe a third of the film.
9. What's your new budget and how confident are you this time?
One might assume your prior budget stopped at the end of shooting.
10. What is your post-production budget, including:
a. Video editing?
b. Sound edit?
c. ADR?
d. Foley?
e. Music/score?
f. Mix/rerecord?
g. M&E?
h. Film convesion?
i. Film lab?
j. Marketing? (including PR, advertising, press kits, promos)
k. Distribution?
l. G & A? (including legal)
11. What distribution agreements are in place? (contracts)
12. What distribution agreements are planned and what are the contingencies?
13. Will you need to secure additional funding for these phases?
14. What are your business arrangements with:
a. Investors in place?
b. Investors needed for this round?
c. Investors need for the additional phases?
14. What are your revenue sharing arrangements with your investors?
Hans, I'm sure this list missed many items but hopefully it will be helpful when you talk with prospective investors...
Regards, Michael
Hans Moleman
Carbonite Member
Alright. I've gotten a few PM's now that seem confused about funding, but certain that I don't know what I'm talking about. So, this is my last entry before I'm unsubscribing to this thread.
First, some background; When I was 16, I qualified for Mensa in Minnesota. When I was 18, I was accepted to Harvard university. I've worked for three years at a 9-5 job at one of the largest commercial real estate firms in the state, getting ample experience in the world of cutting-throats-for-money. If you think you know better than I do because of my age; reconsider.
Firstly, if we're talking about shorts here, stop using the word "invest." People giving you money for shorts aren't investing. They're donating. Plain and simple. Investing implies a return on the money invested. Misusing that word makes you sound like a kid playing in daddy's clothes.
Now; the first point I see is that people think that I've somehow engineered my short to make money. It won't. It's a short. It will lose AT LEAST 10 grand.
Why would a company give me money when we both know that exact sum will not come back to them? Because it's media exposure for a product. Otherwise known as a commercial. It's product placement that I'm using for my film, and I thought I made that clear. Is it selling out? Yes. Do I get to make the exact movie I want, with the budget I want, and the people I want, without putting in my own money? Yes. Sounds like I've got all the integrity I need right there.
Next, I'm asked about where to find investors. There again, misuse of the word. Investors are easy to find. If I tell someone I can get them a 4 above prime return on an investment with a 16 month turn around, they'd be nuts to say no. Shorts can't do that. So, what do I have to my advantage? Exposure. What needs exposure? People, products, brands, and anything you see plastered up or nailed to the side of a building.
Why would they go with me instead of just doing a commercial? Ever look into what it would cost to actually make a commercial, and buy the airtime to hit your target market? 10 grand starts to look like petty cash.
In the end, I have no secret besides sitting down and thinking about what I need, and how to get it. Then I thought about who to get it from, and what they need, and how I could get that to them. You have to make phone calls, get numbers, screw emails, and do the legwork. Use your head, man. I wish that I could just submit a form and get all the money I want to make whatever I want, but I can't. Lenin's dead. In our system, you need to find how to capitalize on opportunities. Maybe instead of reading "Devil without a crew" again, maybe pick up some Buffet or iacocca.
And that's it. That's all I have for you. If you find that you're no better, and at square one, with no one helping you; good. That's where I was 4 months ago. That's where Steve was in the 60's. You have to do it yourself. So get going.
First, some background; When I was 16, I qualified for Mensa in Minnesota. When I was 18, I was accepted to Harvard university. I've worked for three years at a 9-5 job at one of the largest commercial real estate firms in the state, getting ample experience in the world of cutting-throats-for-money. If you think you know better than I do because of my age; reconsider.
Firstly, if we're talking about shorts here, stop using the word "invest." People giving you money for shorts aren't investing. They're donating. Plain and simple. Investing implies a return on the money invested. Misusing that word makes you sound like a kid playing in daddy's clothes.
Now; the first point I see is that people think that I've somehow engineered my short to make money. It won't. It's a short. It will lose AT LEAST 10 grand.
Why would a company give me money when we both know that exact sum will not come back to them? Because it's media exposure for a product. Otherwise known as a commercial. It's product placement that I'm using for my film, and I thought I made that clear. Is it selling out? Yes. Do I get to make the exact movie I want, with the budget I want, and the people I want, without putting in my own money? Yes. Sounds like I've got all the integrity I need right there.
Next, I'm asked about where to find investors. There again, misuse of the word. Investors are easy to find. If I tell someone I can get them a 4 above prime return on an investment with a 16 month turn around, they'd be nuts to say no. Shorts can't do that. So, what do I have to my advantage? Exposure. What needs exposure? People, products, brands, and anything you see plastered up or nailed to the side of a building.
Why would they go with me instead of just doing a commercial? Ever look into what it would cost to actually make a commercial, and buy the airtime to hit your target market? 10 grand starts to look like petty cash.
In the end, I have no secret besides sitting down and thinking about what I need, and how to get it. Then I thought about who to get it from, and what they need, and how I could get that to them. You have to make phone calls, get numbers, screw emails, and do the legwork. Use your head, man. I wish that I could just submit a form and get all the money I want to make whatever I want, but I can't. Lenin's dead. In our system, you need to find how to capitalize on opportunities. Maybe instead of reading "Devil without a crew" again, maybe pick up some Buffet or iacocca.
And that's it. That's all I have for you. If you find that you're no better, and at square one, with no one helping you; good. That's where I was 4 months ago. That's where Steve was in the 60's. You have to do it yourself. So get going.
slimchrisp
Well-known member
um, so how should it have been taken when you originally referred to investors then?
i'm just sayin.
dantewaters
Well-known member
Value
Value
Well said it's not the economy it is our thinking... I use to say things are expensive now I say I can't afford them. With that right there I develop the thinking of how can I get more... so I can afford them.
Look at this video you may think it's corny or weak or whatever but it has made a difference in my life and you can raise $15,000... Heck people blow that away in a car why not a movie please it is all about how valuable things are to people bottom line.
Anyway here's the video -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfA-qNWLBHo&feature=related
If you are interested look at this one next -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWOJt1kCYP0&feature=related
Don't WORRY HE ISN'T SELLING ANYTHING JUST knowledge Sharing!!
Value
Well said it's not the economy it is our thinking... I use to say things are expensive now I say I can't afford them. With that right there I develop the thinking of how can I get more... so I can afford them.
Look at this video you may think it's corny or weak or whatever but it has made a difference in my life and you can raise $15,000... Heck people blow that away in a car why not a movie please it is all about how valuable things are to people bottom line.
Anyway here's the video -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfA-qNWLBHo&feature=related
If you are interested look at this one next -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWOJt1kCYP0&feature=related
Don't WORRY HE ISN'T SELLING ANYTHING JUST knowledge Sharing!!
moonlitnite
Well-known member
Rehi all,
Wow, Hans tells us he's unsubscribed to this thread. I hope we didn't offend him, although the tone of his first and last post seem to have taken a dramatic turn from financial frustrations to assertions for the rest of us. That's unfortunate, we all need a chance to vent - although this is hardly the best forum.
OTOH, I'm sure many of us are miffed after trying to offer helpful suggestions based on the original post (asking investment/investor questions). It definitely reinforces why we should make clear posts, especially in the Business forum.
At any rate, thanks to y'all for sharing your feedback - even if Hans couldn't make use of your comments, I think we all profit from your collective wisdom.
Happy Trails, Michael
Wow, Hans tells us he's unsubscribed to this thread. I hope we didn't offend him, although the tone of his first and last post seem to have taken a dramatic turn from financial frustrations to assertions for the rest of us. That's unfortunate, we all need a chance to vent - although this is hardly the best forum.
OTOH, I'm sure many of us are miffed after trying to offer helpful suggestions based on the original post (asking investment/investor questions). It definitely reinforces why we should make clear posts, especially in the Business forum.
At any rate, thanks to y'all for sharing your feedback - even if Hans couldn't make use of your comments, I think we all profit from your collective wisdom.
Happy Trails, Michael