Need advice on dealing with my 'employee', many words, please read!

Ferret Lady

Ferret Lady

Well-known member
Okay, i would appreciate some advice from the pros here. I"m trying to start a low budget music video company as some of you may know and i'm new to being someone's 'boss' so i think i really need help.

basically we have been specializing in filming local bands at live gigs and then editing that footage into a music video. havent done any with stories yet although i hope to. anyways, i dont want to get into whether or not my company will be a success, just wanted to give you a little background on what we do cuz its relevent.

i am one of the camera people, and the editor, and i have two other camera guys. one of them, we'll call him John, has become a good friend of mine. in a way, we're like a team. he teaches me a lot about cameras, and i teach him a lot about editing. he is starting another company geared towards short films and weddings, and enlists my help for editing. his goal is to be director.

one day we had a discussion about how much of the money would go to him. because he is the best camera guy i have, and does all the transportation, and teaches me so much, i pay him much more than the other guy. i'm ok with this. but he asked me if i could put his name down as 'director' on the videos we do. and although i argued about the honesty of that, i agreed to do so cuz i figured it wouldnt hurt anybody and if i can help him out then how can i say no. he wants to show videos we do to potential clients and for them to see his name as director.

so here's what's already happened that proves to me that was stupid of me to promise him. he found a band that was interested in a video and showed them a video we had done. i had made this music video and sent it to the client and uploaded it on our site and all that, and AFTER that john asked me to add his name. i warned him it would b e different from the version already out there, but he said that was okay. so this potential client sees this video with john's name as a director, and wants more info, so john gives him my company's website address.

the client goes to my site, and sees the OTHER version of the video, which doesnt list anyone as a director. it just says the song name, band name, and get famous productions. so basically they think john has edited my video and is lying and we probably lost that client.

i should never have agreed to put his name on that thing. but i feel bad about going back on something that i promised him. it was in the same conversation as what he'd get paid, and we shook on it. i know i have the right to change my mind but i never do that to people, even it ends up hurting me in the end.

but i cant put him as a director! if any directing gets done with these live performance videos, it's just me telling the guys what shots they need to make sure they get, and what settings to put the camera on. i would like John to take this role eventually so i dont have to do it but even when he does, that's not really being a director is it?

maybe it is, i'm not a director and dont plan to be so i really dont know what qualifies someone for that title. but until we do videos with a story, i feel like i shouldnt put anyone down as a director cuz its just a load of bs and i feel like i'm lying.

ok, so, what do you guys think!? i'm sure you'll agree i made a mistake but what i'm really looking for here is advice on how to treat the situation. how to talk to him, without burning the bridge with him. he's very crucial to my company at this time.

thanks guys, in advance.
 
Director is the person calling the shots, simple as that. If you're the one telling the camera operators what shots to get, you're the director. Doesn't matter if it's a scripted story or an unscripted shoot or whether you're directing the talent in front of the camera. For that matter, the director is also the one who makes the decisions on the structure of the piece during editing as well so that's you even if you choose to call yourself the "editor." That's why you often see the same person credited as both director and editor if the production is a one-man band. From what you say, John's role has been sort of DP, sort of camera op.

Your friend John doesn't sound like the sort of person I'd want to be in business with. He's blatantly asked you to falsify his credentials and credits and that establishes the fact that he is a liar. What is he already lying to YOU about and what will he lie to you about in the future? If you're smart you can never trust him. It's clear he has no ethics so you're better off without him. You can readily learn the technical side of camera operation yourself - dump him.
 
I agree with Steve. i don't believe in lying. It's simply unethical and it sounds like this guy is leading you down a path you feel uncomfortable with. It may be painful to lose him in the short term but i think you'd be better off in the long run. Sounds to me like he's using you, anyway.
 
Steve's right, John is a liar. But worse, now he's made YOU a liar. And he's made your lie public -- the client knows something is fishy, and YOU are directly responsible for it. This is an intolerable situation, and you have to deal with it immediately and forcefully. Cut John loose, and tell him why. Then explain -- truthfully -- to the client. Confess it was a momentary lack of judgement, trying to help a friend. But you've rectified the situation and learned from it.

Good luck!
 
THis whole 2 Director thing is for the birds.

Unless your the Coen's, forget about it.

THERE IS ONE DIRECTOR.
 
I don't see the problem!
However share the DP position for that music video and if he ever asked again about other music video say NO bc you're the boss!

And that advice will cost you $25
 
There's been a couple shoots I've been on where I was camera operator, no director, and a producer. The producer was supposed to be directing, but didn't do much directing so I was the one deciding where to put the camera and getting all the required angles to make the editor happy.

Was "John" in the same situation (or maybe he felt this way)?
 
thanks for the advice guys. i'll be having a talk with him tomorrow.

pmark. its possible he felt that way although i do provide direction with everything we do. being the editor, i know exactly what i need, so. he obviously has to make split decisions with where to aim the camera during live shows tho... but that's not directing, if u ask me.

anyways, thanks guys.
 
I'd keep the conversation to this. "We've made a huge mistake. I think we both had good intentions, but, in the end, it kinda turned into a misrepresentation of what we've been doing. It might have cost us a valuable client and I shouldn't have let it happen. We, meaning you and I, need to work forward to find projects you can direct. Until then, I don't want this type of thing to happen again. Can we agree that we'll keep everything above level?"

I wouldn't make this a confrontational conversation. You allowed him, a close collaborator by your description, too much room to bend the truth for his own benefit. Agree that it can't ever happen again and do whatever you can to salvage that compromised relationship. I'd explain it to the client. Further expanding the lie won't help, but an honest discussion about your intentions might. Let them know that you know it was a mistake.

Also, keep in mind that your miscalculation and his misrepresentation didn't kill or harm anyone. A little perspective and better ethics moving forward will rectify this situation and is a good lesson learned.

arrested-jeffrey-tambor4.jpg


e
 
I agree, there's no such thing as two directors (the freakish-joined-at-the-hip-brother sort of thing excepted).

But it all raises something bigger, and that is the value of a credit. We work for two things: money and credit. And just like we shouldn't pay someone for something they didn't do, we shouldn't give credit for something they didn't do. Can you imagine your buddy saying, hey, do you mind paying me $800 for the editing I didn't do? You'd look at him like he was crazy. I think we've all felt that credits should be generously spread around, but I think it can lead to trouble.

And so I have become a believer in credits being accorded only for real work done. Only the the guy who calls the shots and directs the actors and has final say on what the shot should be is the director. The fact the PA had an idea for a shot, or the make-up artist thought of a better way of delivering a joke, doesn't make either of them directors--the director fields all the ideas, together with his own, to ultimately arrive at HIS vision for the film.

Similarly, only the guy who types the dialogue and writes the story in words on paper is the writer (notes don't count!). Only the guy who operates the NLE is the editor. Only the guy who brings money to the table and/or does all the leg work and paperwork and takes responsibility for a project can be credited as a producer (Hollywood name-only producers excepted).

It's the only way we can keep things straight and to ensure that you don't build resentment and you get the appreciation for your work you deserve.

(By the way, I think it's common for people to try to get more credit than they deserve. In one case, on my first directing gig, a guy who'd been brought on to do lighting and who was more experienced than me in that regard, actually hinted at getting a directing credit at the end of the shoot. My jaw almost hit the floor. The fact is the guy hadn't shot anything of his own for years and was just looking for an opportunity to use my initiative and creativity towards his own ends. Your friend might be doing the same--if he's unable to get his own stuff going, he might be looking for a way to capitalize on yours.)
 
Last edited:
Working with partners, especially friends, is difficult. I've found business tests friendships like no other. You either grow closer or further.

Good luck! And hope your client understands and is forgiving.
 
Capt Quirk said:
Just like Highlander, there can be only one... so grab your Katana and show him who gets to say "Cut!"
Click to expand...

HAHA, awesome quote...

I can understand the reluctance to believe there really is a director on some of these smaller projects, I mean I've felt that way too. I credited myself as "director" of these virtual tour videos, with a crew of only four people, and where I would often do various grip work, putting together a dolly, the porta-jib, etc., but ultimately I was the one doing the walk-through with the camera guy and saying what shots we should get, what was the priority, often whether I wanted to jib or dolly this room, and of course this was a discussion with the DP / camera op. He often would say, "I think we should jib it," and I'd say, "You think so? Ok if we can do it, let's go for it." I was present during the whole editing process and helping massage the footage to meet my vision for the projects, but my editor would do the rough assemblies without me really saying much in general because he got the hang of it and certainly didn't need me breathing down his back about everything. So while I say I directed those videos, I say it sort of tongue-in-cheek because if anything I did more producing and gripping than I did directing. How much can you really direct when you don't even have actors with whom to work?

Now I may do this music video (I have about three music videos sort of in the wings now, and two very close / concept stage) where the lead singer has a concept already, and he is able to find a location for free which is essential to doing the project at all, so with this I feel like I want input into the concept and to be able to exercise my creativity otherwise I'm not much of a director, really. It's more like I'm bringing my tools, putting together the crew, and on location really not doing much. That, to me, doesn't seem like I'm the director. I guess in some respects I would still be the director as I'm able to suggest shot selections I think would work best, and in editing put this together as I want, but the band will have a lot of input into that as well. So it's kind of weird. So far in my short career I don't think I've directed anything where I was able to put my stamp on it completely. Everything has been a compromise of whatever my vision is with a number of other people having input I essentially cannot reject (whether a band or a corporate client, etc.). I think ironically the training video I did I had ability to put my stamp on it than anything else, and even then on set I barely even directed the actors. I was only able to provide basic blocking suggestions, and give a few pieces of feedback about delivery of lines, but since it was a food service training video and I don't know anything about that, the corporate director of food services was actually providing most of the practical direction about how activities were to be performed by the actors.

I guess that's why I want to do a short film soon, so I can be the guy who shapes the project from script to completion and anyone else's advice I can choose to take or basically say go take a long walk on a short pier, haha. I love other creative professionals' input, I just don't like having to do something just because I don't really have the ability to say no.

In your situation, I wouldn't credit this guy with director, that's for sure, I think if there is a director at all it's you, and I would say it's kind of weird to say there's a director of a concert video. I mean, I've thought of that stuff more like there's a videographer or two or three, and an editor, but a director... I mean, it's not a necessary separate position from the editor or a camera guy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top