GageFX
Carbonite Member
Cool. I was specifically referring to an HVX/EX1 test since those are the two cams that I would be looking at. But when the time comes, if you are interested in the guys for something else, just let me know.
EX-1 and HVX200A Run-n-Gun Experiement: Narrativeish
- Thread starter Kholi
- Start date
Cool. I was specifically referring to an HVX/EX1 test since those are the two cams that I would be looking at. But when the time comes, if you are interested in the guys for something else, just let me know.
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
GageFX, what are you shooting with now?
GageFX
Carbonite Member
I'm not shooting now. I ended shooting a DVX feature last summer, and have been in post for that and pre for the next project since. I sold the DVX right after finishing last summer and have not decided what I'm shooting the next project with. However, I am inclined to pick up an HMC when they hit stores. (I really liked the DVX, but am not happy at all with the low light of the HVX. As for the HVXa and the 170, I like the idea of the SD cards instead of P2 cards, however, I will need to see footage before I decide.
As for the upcoming, there will be action and handheld and strobing police/emergency lights as well as night club strobes and lighting. I absolutely saw that jello-cam before I knew which clip was which - and commented about it before the results were given - so that affects me as far as the EX1 goes. And the strobing will ABSOLUTELY be a problem.
Beyond that, I dont like about the EX1 exactly what it is that EX1 owners love so much, and that is the super crisp insanely sharp detail. It just looks so video and "fake" to me. Just a personal preference for NOT THAT SHARP images.
As for Kholi's test, there are things I like about the HVX and things I like about the EX1. I liked the EX1's handling of low light, I didnt like it's jello-cam. I loved the LOOK of the HVX (although I'm not a fan of adapters or out of focus adapters), but I dont like it's low light performance.
I have a partner that has an HVX that I have unlimited access to, but I have no desire to shoot with it. I dont have the time, patience, or energy, or equipment to deal with the low light issues. Some think of me as "anti-EX1" or "pro-HVX", but the truth is, I wouldnt shoot with either right now.
Still just figuring it out, but I cannot ignore what I see in EX1 (and HV20) footage. HOWEVER, just as the EX1 cant be compared to the Red - they are vastly different classes of camera - it is equally unfair to compare it to the HV20 for the same reasons. This is why I am VERY thankful to Kholi and Willis for doing this test, and why I am SUPER willing to help them on the next if it will help relieve pressure for a more "fair" test. It can only help me in the long run.
Sorry to say, Perrone, your tests do nothing to show me how the EX1 would work for my uses. Nothing personal, just honesty.
As for the upcoming, there will be action and handheld and strobing police/emergency lights as well as night club strobes and lighting. I absolutely saw that jello-cam before I knew which clip was which - and commented about it before the results were given - so that affects me as far as the EX1 goes. And the strobing will ABSOLUTELY be a problem.
Beyond that, I dont like about the EX1 exactly what it is that EX1 owners love so much, and that is the super crisp insanely sharp detail. It just looks so video and "fake" to me. Just a personal preference for NOT THAT SHARP images.
As for Kholi's test, there are things I like about the HVX and things I like about the EX1. I liked the EX1's handling of low light, I didnt like it's jello-cam. I loved the LOOK of the HVX (although I'm not a fan of adapters or out of focus adapters), but I dont like it's low light performance.
I have a partner that has an HVX that I have unlimited access to, but I have no desire to shoot with it. I dont have the time, patience, or energy, or equipment to deal with the low light issues. Some think of me as "anti-EX1" or "pro-HVX", but the truth is, I wouldnt shoot with either right now.
Still just figuring it out, but I cannot ignore what I see in EX1 (and HV20) footage. HOWEVER, just as the EX1 cant be compared to the Red - they are vastly different classes of camera - it is equally unfair to compare it to the HV20 for the same reasons. This is why I am VERY thankful to Kholi and Willis for doing this test, and why I am SUPER willing to help them on the next if it will help relieve pressure for a more "fair" test. It can only help me in the long run.
Sorry to say, Perrone, your tests do nothing to show me how the EX1 would work for my uses. Nothing personal, just honesty.
Kholi and WIllis, great job!
I'm also on the fence, here, between the HVX200a/HPX170/EX1,3.
Kholi, Would love to see you trying your absolutely best with the EX1/3 and comenting on the experience, in an HVX200a user perspective. This HVX200 user is looking for an upgrade, and needs your help !
Hope to see this "sequel"!
Cheers!
I'm also on the fence, here, between the HVX200a/HPX170/EX1,3.
Kholi, Would love to see you trying your absolutely best with the EX1/3 and comenting on the experience, in an HVX200a user perspective. This HVX200 user is looking for an upgrade, and needs your help !
Hope to see this "sequel"!
Cheers!
since there is a little debate about looks and what not... check out this thread: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=143163
Shot on the EX1 bare...
Shot on the EX1 bare...
Ted Spencer
Veteran
This bothers me too, although I've never used an EX1. The HVX looks more like film than any of its competition, and that's why I own one.
Is it a 200 or a 200a? The latter is far superior in low light (as I'm sure you know) - enough so to really change the equation. Clearly from various tests and data, the EX1 is quite a bit better in low light (although apparently equivalent in noise), but all things considered (including price), I'm quite content with my choice.
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
I too enjoyed my DVX, and I will still be shooting with it from time to time. Makes a very lovely image. I too like the idea SD (or CF) cards but it seems both Sony and Panasonic (to a degree) are keeping them out of their higher end products.
How do you know it will be a problem? This is what I don't understand. I have not yet seen any footage of night club strobes, police/emergency lights, and so forth, on the EX1. If the jellovision stands out to you, and you plan on using the camera for running handheld shots, then certainly you need to look for something else.
I think this is a very unfair statement. I have seen very few EX1's thus far used in narrative filmmaking. However the Kerberos project I saw the clip from yesterday was exceptional(http://www.kerberosbites.com/pages/kerberostrailer.html?v=IUXVXzKOnQE). Make sure you take a look at that. I would imagine the images coming off an F23, a Genesis, or similar with nothing but a bare lens would look tack sharp also. But in narrative filmmaking, it's common to use softening filters and the like. Knocking a camera down because it produces sharp images seems somewhat counter intuitive to me. Those are things that are quite easily corrected either with on-camera filtering or in post.
I put very little credence in the footage I saw from the EX1 in this "test". By their own admission, the shooters knew very little about the EX1 or how to set it up. It was given a different type of adapter in front of it. In other words, on a paying project, if someone had shot it that way, they'd have been asked to leave. This is not a slam to the guys who shot it, as they were VERY honest and forthcoming about how it was done. But to dismiss the camera based on what we KNOW is substandard footage is kinda odd, don't you think?=
I don't own Sony, so none of this is personal to me. My tests were not aimed at you. They have been aimed at people who asked for very specific types of footage. Codec tests, panning tests, skin tone tests, etc. I can certainly set the camera up in a real club, with real strobes if you'd really like to see that. But franky, I don't think it would matter that much to you. If you plan to use the camera handheld, and without an image stabilizer, then you need to be looking at a different camera. It really is that simple.
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ulisses
Well-known member
It is nice to see both cameras in the same situation.
My personal experience with EX1 was good, but not so easy to get good colors like the Pana. I was recording a corporate video with both cameras (EX1 and HVX200) and in an office with some light mix (daylight, kino and office lights) it was very hard to get a correct color in EX1, I set the white in a card that got a mix of lights, in the whole image, in part of images and all the time EX1 colors were "strange", kind of purple and not natural. I also tried to adjust the color in camera menus and could got it a little better. Just for test, I put the HVX in the same location, same lights and set the white balance with the lens opened and the color was correct at first try, very natural and good skin tones. I'm not saying EX1 doesn't offer a good result, but Pana is a lot easy with colors, looks like a good fatory adjust. Anyway, EX1 resolution is amazing when watching in Full HD LCD.
I get better results tweaking the Pana menus than the EX1 ones.
Only my experience,
Ulisses
It might be a matter of opinion but I think it looks nothing close to F23 or Genesis footage. Especially the latter.
It does look great, but there are a lot of people that dislike the extra resolution to a degree where they want to tame it.
There are RED user that want to use "softer" glass just to take the edge off of their footage, even ready to use Nikon glass to get to that point. I'm not in that crowd, I'm down with sharpness but it's something to consider.
I'm all for the EX1's resolution because it helps when using adapters.
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
Huh? I am not trying to say the EX1 looks like a Genesis or F23. I merely stated that the images coming off those cameras (with certain lenses) would also be incredibly sharp. Nothing more than that.
No different than film. Some people want Cookes, some want Arris, and others want Zeiss Ultras. Some even want vintage lenses, like the DP for There Will Be Blood. Some DPs shoot with a clean lens, others filter heavily. Some won't shoot without a pro-mist, or something, others won't touch it.
To me, sharpness and resolution are things that can always been toned down. But there is really no other opportunity to go the other way.
GageFX
Carbonite Member
Perrone, I was going to respond to your points, but they just got more ridiculous as they went on. It's when I got to this sentence that I decided it's no point:
If you've already made up your mind about what I'm thinking, there's no point in me continuing.
PerroneFord said:
If you've already made up your mind about what I'm thinking, there's no point in me continuing.
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
You stated from the get-go that the "jello-vision" would not work for you. Thus there was no point in me bothering to set up a test inside a club, right?
I'm sorry you thought my points were ridiculous. I just took you at your word.
Kholi and WIllis, great job!
I'm also on the fence, here, between the HVX200a/HPX170/EX1,3.
Kholi, Would love to see you trying your absolutely best with the EX1/3 and comenting on the experience, in an HVX200a user perspective. This HVX200 user is looking for an upgrade, and needs your help !
Hope to see this "sequel"!
Cheers!
I'm so tired right now and I'm on a Honda shoot that's utilizing 3 HVX200s.
But here's some food for thought, as I know you and I are always back and forth about which camera to purchase next. I also infected Willis with this, it's kinda like rabies: once you get bit it's over.
Here's how I see it, I defined as Kholi, defined as One Who Scribbles but knows Little:
Is this your bread and butter? And, if so, then can you afford NOT to own a Panasonic Camera? One thing that never fails, at least here in Los Angeles, is at least one weekly request to rent my 200A setup. Sometimes just the camera, even. That Once A Week occurrence is something that keeps me stable in a field where stability is the last thing you should ever count on.
I want so much more resolution and what, a quarter-stop of light? I'll take that, too! However... I'm not willing to give up that small once-a-week special for it. My rig rents for amounts that a lot of us here would consider ridiculous given the market saturation. I can't find a single EX1 owner shooting narrative and commercial (my type of work) that gets enough work with the camera, and, isn't still renting an HVX200 for most jobs.
If I were shooting for myself and I didn't have to worry about working with my gear or ROI? Heck yeah. I would be all about some EX1 fun. I would spend time owning it and messing with it until I knew for sure that I wanted to keep it but that's not the case and, at the moment, I can't afford to take that chance (contrary to what some people might assume.)
Ask Willis, Matty, Geoff and Luis what my car looks like. LoL
To that effect, I'm falling off of the fence and right back into the Panasonic camp. I'll be cursing and spitting and howling about the resolution when I'm not shooting with it and when I am? I'll be completely re-blown away by it. I can't afford not to own a 200A right now and, next month, perhaps an HPX170.
That's All State's Stand; Are you in good hands?
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Joseph Stunzi
Veteran
Kholi... I agree 100% with you on this!
ecking
Veteran
I've seen his car too and it's nothing special. Here's the pic he sent me of it.
note: He only owns 2 of those 3 boats in the background, poor bastard.