Process of ADR vs. Sync Sound Recording on set

givemefood

givemefood

Well-known member
Hello All,

I have been filming a short film the past few days and now we are finally ready to film scenes that have lines. There are about 4 scenes with lines and every scene will be filmed outdoors.

The location is a suburban train station, so during daytime there are a few cars that drive by. We know when trains come, so we have decided to avoid taping at that time.

Now, the question i have is..... How to record sound for the lines as neatly and professionally as possible so the audio is good?

I keep hearing from other indie filmmakers that i should ADR in post. I am all for it... but i am not sure the best possible way to do so. ADR would have to be difficult, would it not? Trying to sync replaced dialog with actors' lips would have to be challenging? Does anyone have any recommendation and procedures on performing ADR?

Also, if i don't go the ADR route, what is the best possible way to record audio on set? And how do i use/alter the recorded audio in post?

Please advise. Many thanks
 
Yes ADR is time-consuming and not easy. Basically an actor stands in an isolation booth in a recording studio looking at a video playback of the scene s/he's replacing and says the lines again in sync with it. Usually the actor listens to the original on-set audio first for a reference, so that audio is extremely important regardless.

Probably the commonest equipment to use for this nowadays, like most things pro audio, is Digidesign Pro Tools. I recently finished a complete sound track replacement (dialog, music and foley) for a 30 minute TV show using it. It worked very well.

One feature that was particularly welcome was the ability to set up a looped section of video/dialog (Pro Tools runs the picture too) set to automatically record again each time it loops. So an actor can quickly do several takes in rapid succession. The best one can then be selected and further synced if necessary. I did this by hand, but there are other more automatic means of matching sync after the recording such as "Sound Replacer" software, which I have to admit I've never used. I should try it out...
 
People who recommend ADR for no budget productions either have no idea what they are talking about or have very low standards for their tracks. ADR is HARD to do well and anything less looks bad. I'm guessing you don't have a sound person or you wouldn't be asking these questions. So, I would do a search of this forum because I'm sure this has been answered in depth. The gist will be, boom mic with a lot of wind protection, probably a short shotgun, but poss a hyper. If you think you might have to ADR some lines try recording them wild in the location at a quieter time/place. ie if a train steps on a line in a take you think you might use, record that line a few times on it's own after the train leaves. The timing will be close and the BG will be a close match. That should make matching the ADR a bunch easier.

Cutting sound (of any complexity) requires a sound editing application and some experience.
 
Ted Spencer said:
I did this by hand, but there are other more automatic means of matching sync after the recording such as "Sound Replacer" software, which I have to admit I've never used. I should try it out...
Click to expand...

VocAlign would be the software (plugin) "sound Replacer' is more for replacing drum parts. But 90% of ADR is hand work anyway. Vocalign works great if your close and just need to tighten up a word or so but anything longer than a word starts to get problematical and even words can be too much if it's a long and complicated word and the ADR isn't a close performance. It's a lot like noise reduction, a little can work miricles a lot usually just sounds wrong.
 
Thank you both for your insight. I have been reading the audio threads but wanted ur feedback on ADR.
 
Noiz2 said:
If you think you might have to ADR some lines try recording them wild in the location at a quieter time/place. ie if a train steps on a line in a take you think you might use, record that line a few times on it's own after the train leaves. The timing will be close and the BG will be a close match. That should make matching the ADR a bunch easier.
Click to expand...


I think wild takes are ten times more valuable than ADR because the actor is still in character and they most likely still have the emotion in the scene. I recently cut sound for a short where the production sound mixer, Matt Gettemeier, had the foresight to do multiple wild takes for just about every line in the script. That saved the day for dialog editing and we didn't have to do one take of ADR. If there is not a lot of dialog in the train scene, take the actors aside to a quieter area and have perform several wild takes. It may save the day.
 
Brad S. said:
I think wild takes are ten times more valuable than ADR because the actor is still in character and they most likely still have the emotion in the scene. I recently cut sound for a short where the production sound mixer, Matt Gettemeier, had the foresight to do multiple wild takes for just about every line in the script. That saved the day for dialog editing and we didn't have to do one take of ADR. If there is not a lot of dialog in the train scene, take the actors aside to a quieter area and have perform several wild takes. It may save the day.
Click to expand...
Matt and Brad DID a tremendous job on that short. The sound was taken to a higher level. :thumbsup:
 
Noiz2 said:
VocAlign would be the software (plugin) "sound Replacer' is more for replacing drum parts. But 90% of ADR is hand work anyway. Vocalign works great if your close and just need to tighten up a word or so but anything longer than a word starts to get problematical and even words can be too much if it's a long and complicated word and the ADR isn't a close performance. It's a lot like noise reduction, a little can work miricles a lot usually just sounds wrong.
Click to expand...

Yes VocAlign is what I meant. Thanks...
 
One thing to keep in mind when doing wild takes (and certainly ADR for that matter) are the exact words that are said and the timing. As the sound guy, it is your job (or whoever is the sound mixer) to make sure that the actors say the same exact same words with at least similar pronunciation. If they are the type of actor that is constantly changing the order of the words, have them do the take a number of different ways.

Blaine said:
Matt and Brad DID a tremendous job on that short. The sound was taken to a higher level. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Thanks, Blaine!
 
Noiz2 said:
People who recommend ADR for no budget productions either have no idea what they are talking about or have very low standards for their tracks. ADR is HARD to do well and anything less looks bad. I'm guessing you don't have a sound person or you wouldn't be asking these questions. So, I would do a search of this forum because I'm sure this has been answered in depth. The gist will be, boom mic with a lot of wind protection, probably a short shotgun, but poss a hyper. .
Click to expand...

You want a LONG shotgun when there is a lot of BG noise. More off-axis rejection.

Avoid ADR. The wild lines idea is good. That's how all the dialog in El Marichi was done, and whenever it went out of sync, he just cut to another shot.

Lav mics can be helpful too in noisy environments if you're doing wide shots and can't get the boom in there.
 
yeehaanow said:
You want a LONG shotgun when there is a lot of BG noise. More off-axis rejection.
Click to expand...
Depending on the size and accoustics of the space, you may find that a long shotgun (eg. MKH816) emphasizes the off-axis reflections in an unpleasant way.

As has already been stated repeatedly, do everything you can to avoid ADR. One issue that hasn't been addressed yet is that the ADR proccess will only replace the dialogue. To cover everything else in the absence of good production sound, you'll need effects and foley.
 
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